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Reid VS Kenshiro (Re:Zero VS Fist of the North Star) (7-7-2)

FoxySonicMaster108 said:
Counted both votes btw, hope this helps.

That said.

I mean, speed is equalized (to which end, I do not know, probably the lower end, so Reid's speed, which would still be enough), so I'm sure that can be covered no problem.
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1. Reids running speed is thousands of times slower than his reaction speed, which means that it will be faster for Reid to swing his sword then ken to reach him
2. Even if every speed was equalized its still much faster for someone to swing their sword once instead of running 4 kilometres
 
I mean, i don't know, i did find this skill feats for Kenshiro, that his profile don't show.
Here's some Kenshiro feats,I will also present feats performed by people who scale below Kenshiro, just so I don’t bog this list down with names I haven’t given context to. Kenshiro stands as the single most skilled fighter in his universe, surpassing all his predecessors and having absolute mastery over almost every single martial art displayed throughout the series. Kenshiro is perhaps the greatest Pressure Point user in fiction without any exaggeration. Most of his attacks are one hit kill, and not only that, depending of the pressure point and the technique, striking a pressure point can cause all sorts of effects such as:
Among many others, afterall Hokuto Shinken has a innumerable amount of techniques, and is stated to have infinite fighting variations, And Kenshiro is the most skilled fighter in his series which is no small feat because Hokuto No Ken is a verse full of broken and highly lethal martial arts, even the "weakest" ones can do things like:
The Strongest ones in the series are Hokuto Shinken, Nanto Seiken, and Gento Koken

Hokuto Shinken:​

The art's power is focused into channeling one's energy in a single blow and striking into the 708 Keiraku Hikō (経絡秘孔, "Hidden Channeling Points") points in the human body (also known as pressure points, power points, vital points, tsubo, etc.). These pressure points destroy the enemy from within, and causes the victim to explode (hence its durability-negating nature), be controlled involuntarily or otherwise incapacitated. It can also be used to heal certain physical and psychological wounds, such as restoring a person's voice, eyesight or memories, though the main purpose of Hokuto Shinken is assassination. Here some of it's best techniques:
Kenshiro is the greatest Hokuto Shinken user of all time in his series, he's so skilled that he can easily strike a pressure point as small as the tip of a pin with a strand of hair, the mastery over Hokuto Shinken not only makes Kenshiro incredibly versatile but also super deadly, especially to human characters, but even if someone is not human and has different pressure points, Kenshiro can still kill him, Kenshiro can discover the locations of ones pressure points, and even if he don't, he can use the Tenha Kassatsu A technique that is able to reveal the locations of one's vital points it also allows it's user to hit an opponent's pressure points without even making physical contact with them, Kenshiro doesn't even need to know the exact location of one's pressure points for Tenha Kassatsu work.

1800 years ago in China, during the "Three Kingdoms" era, the Hokuto fist was split up amongst the three clans, and all 3 had different versions of Hokuto.

Hokuto Soka Ken​

Hokuto Sonka Ken​

Hokuto Ryuken​

Kenshiro knows all of those, especially Hokuto Ryuken. The ultimate Hokuto Ryuken technique is Anryū Tenha the user can bend space around himself to avoid attacks or distort space around an opponent to disorient them and trap them in a weightless space, it also can distort the distance between himself and his opponent, control the arena and atmosphere. EOS Kenshiro also scales above Toki and Raoh who were so skilled that they both created their own versions of Hokuto, which Kenshiro also knows.

Nanto Seiken:​

While Hokuto Shinken targets vital points to destroy enemies from within, Nanto Seiken teaches how to kill from the outside. This style not only incorporates weaponry but the more advanced schools allow fighters to kill with their bare hands, ranging from hand-to-hand stabbing techniques to slice enemies apart with air pressure. There are 108 sects Nanto Seiken. The six strongest Nanto masters are called the Nanto Roku Seiken, who correspond to the six stars in the Nanto Roku Sei constellation. Junsei, Gisei, Yōsei, Jinsei, Shōsei, and Jibosei (Those who live under this star do not master any Nanto style. Instead, the combat capabilities come from the Nanto Goshasei guardians) which leaves us with the 5 strongest Nanto martial arts. They are:

  1. Nanto Koshu Ken​

  2. Nanto Suicho Ken​

  3. Nanto Kokaku Ken​

  4. Nanto Hakuro Ken​

  5. Nanto Hōō Ken​

Most of them are pretty broken, they are capable of doing things like A flying kick which maims the enemy by slicing the tendons in their arms and legs, cutting the opponent’s ligaments so finely that the cartilage along with all connective tissues would regenerate in 3 seconds if left unmoved (i think this attack is somewhere in the nano/pico meters range), slice the victim apart from the back without touching it, create powerful ilusions to obscure the user's presence and mystify opponents, fly and phase through the enemies attacks while simultaneously slicing them, and many others. Kenshiro is a master of all 108 Nanto styles.

Gento Koken:​

The Gento style focuses on use of ki energy, usually projected outwards as a blast or sometimes as a shield. It uses ki and light like a blade to destroy the opponent's body on a cellular level. Here's Falco disintegrating a man with a Gento attack (here's the anime version of this scene for you to see more cleary), Falco easily desintegrated Jako too. Gento fighters can also shoot ice from their hands, and Kenshiro also knows this super deadly style.

But there's something that almost every martial art in Hokuto no Ken utilizes

Tōki:​

Tōki (闘気, Fighting Spirit) is a special type of ki energy used in several martial arts, including Hokuto Shin Ken, Hokuto Sanka Ken, Nanto Sei Ken and Gento Kō Ken. It can be used to launch ki-based attacks that strike targets (even precise ones, like the Keiraku Hiko) at long range, or to defend the user from attack. Kenshiro has displayed impressive ki mastery over the course of the series, he's able to shoot ki attacks, use ki like telekinesis, he can use ki to touch's one pressure points, he can absorb other's ki, can also prevent his ki from being absorbed, can use ki as force field and protect himself, he can also pass through Ki shields, and also use ki to fly, put fear on others and pacify animals. An expert user can often radiate tōki from his own body as a Fighting Spirit Aura (Tōki no Aura) he can use his Aura to attack for him and manifest a barrage of fists, anticipate attacks, dull murderous intent, strike a man's heart, fright a fighter's ki back into his body, and leave him completely incapable of moving and so weak that even a single pebble can knock him down and redirect ki blasts, and hit other people's vital points automatically (a scene of something similar happening in the anime)

So Kenshiro is extremely versatille not only due to the mastery of Hokuto itself but also due to the amount of other martial art styles at his disposal.

Now for the sake of comparasion

Technique copy:​

Using the Sueishin technique, Kenshiro can easily assimilate the enemy's style, it's stated multiple times in the series that Kenshiro just need to see a martial art in action once to completely master it. Kasumi (Kenshiro's uncle) even says that this is what makes Hokuto Shinken the ultimate martial art, Hokuto users not only steal your martial art, they can instantly do it better than you and understand it on a much deeper level than you ever could, Kenshiro for example surpassed Solia's prowess in Gento Kō Ken [a martial art once deemed to be more deadly than Hokuto Shinken and with 2000 years of history], after only seeing a single move of said style. Other Hokuto fighters besides Kenshiro could also copy martial arts, Raoh for example, even before setting on his quest to summon all kenpo users, had already mastered almost every martial art After starting his quest, Raoh goes out of his way to summon masters of all martial arts and “steal their secrets”, aka, master their martial art (also yeah, he masters a whole martial art by reading a piece of paper describing it..), here’s the japanese and here’s the translation We are told by Toki that Raoh repeated this process with “hundreds of families”, meaning that Raoh has mastered hundreds of martial arts. Kasumi Kenshiro copied Hokuto Sonka Ken's KI manipulation to create the Tenha Kassatsu. And even Jagi who is a absolute fodder compared to EOS Kenshiro, could copy a Nanto style. here's Ken and other Hokuto users using some fighting styles that they copied.

Analytical Prediction:​

Kenshiro has multiple forms of precog. he can use the opponent's breathing-rhythm to predict their moves, predict the opponent’s moves by reading his muscle and eye movements, just like the Colonel did, Hokuto fighters can anticipate the attacks of those who enter his aura, along with being able to read the aura of others to predict their movements, Hokuto fighters can also receives visions of other fighters attacks, accurately predicting when, where and which attack would be and what effect would it have if connect it. (here's a anime scene of this happening too), Hokuto fighters can also sense one's presence and smell killing intent, which makes them highly unlikely to be taken by surprise, it's also quite difficult to predict an attack of a Hokuto fighter since they can change their fate and erase their presence. when 2 Hokuto masters fight each other no one can predict the outcome.

Enhanced Senses :​

Hokuto fighters can

Acrobatics:​

Alot of martial art have displayed incredible Acrobatic stunts during the series things like
There's also the fact that some fighters in HNK can fly/float/glide with Certain techniques. Also Kenshiro scales above anyone else in any type of combat.

Body Control:​

Information Analysis​

seeing a person is enough for him to perfectly know his strength, Hokuto users such as Kasumi can see a martial art’s blind spot and perceive the split second in which the user focuses energy to throw an attack and use that knowledge to predict the attack, effectively negating the martial art as a whole. This martial art had no conventional blind spots the user could even punch and kick behind his back. Like Juza, Hokuto fighters can read a martial art so well that they can predict every move from it.

Reflexes:​

Accelerated Development/Learning Speed:​

Kenshiro not only can copy techniques he also can nullify its effects and see right through it. He has been shown to adapt to incredibly complex techniques on the fly, such as when he adapted to Anryū Tenha's space-warping ability, he was able to discover that Souther suffered from dextrocardia by sensing his blood flow and heartbeat, after just one fight, and also able to find away to kill a guy that was "immune" to Hokuto Shinken in mid fight, other Hokuto fighters such as Kasumi can see a martial art’s “blind spot”, that is, he can perceive the split second in which the user focuses energy to throw an attack and use that knowledge to predict the attack, effectively negating the martial art as a whole, he also can come up with new techniques on the fly in order to counter his opponent’s, in fact even minor characters in HNK are crazy adaptable this is evident when Shachi and Kaiser fought each other, The two were constantly one-up each other, Shachi was able to fully read the Kaiser’s moves and then Shachi got outskilled by Kaiser, showing that even fodders have the ability to quickly adapt to the opponent’s martial art. Speaking of Shachi, he has been shown to be able to adapt to Han's speed just by watching him and Kenshiro fight, even though he previously couldn't see Han's fist attack him, Kenshiro was also able to adapt to Souther's speed, at first Ken could barely see him, but seconds after he was able to completely blitz Souther, Ken is also said to become stronger according to his opponent level of power, and he did managed to fight Raoh to a standstill and would have killed him had he not been stopped, despite Toki stating only minutes prior that Ken didn't even have a 1% chance of defeating Raoh. He's stated to have "infinite potential" in terms of technique and combat prowess multiple times throughout the series. Scales significantly above Toki, who, with his sheer skill and talent, bent Raoh's fate and manifested his harbinger of death. The same technique doesn't work twice on a Hokuto master.

Martial Arts/Weapon Mastery:​

Kenshiro is the greatest Hokuto Shinken master of all time, and he has absolute mastery over every single martial art displayed throughout the series (with few exceptions), he's also stated to have mastered nunchaku, sword and staff use he's able to deflect knives using his nunchucks, and is excellent at throwing spears, other Hokuto fighters such as Charles De Guise have show incredible use of firearms, Hokuto fighters can turn anything into a deadly weapon, such as cutlery and even a strand of hair.

Skill scaling chains:​

Hokuto no Ken skill respect thread. this doc does a good job of clarifying the scaling, but i also recommend for anyone interested to read the whole thing just for you to see how bonkers the skill feats in the series are.

Combat feats and Experience:​

Read the Hokuto no Ken skill respect thread feats section. in HNK you pretty much have to fight in apnea because the slight loosening of muscles and the minuscule amount of nerves devoted to such an act and not the fight could be used by the opponent to win. About experience, even some fodders in HNK had like a thousand fights, Kenshiro fights nearly every day in the apocalyptic wasteland. Also Given the context of how Hokuto works, how it was designed as the “ultimate martial art” and how its masters tend to go around the planet fighting other martial artists in order to enhance the style (here’s a notable instance of this happening) it’s a fairly safe bet to say that Hokuto Shinken ultimately contains aspects of every martial art that has ever existed from 2000 years ago to the moment the series ends, and Ken states that due to the nature of Hokuto Shinken's transmission, it's like he has 1800 years worth of combat experience and training, he was an assassin from the very moment he was born, and due to the fact that he also went through the initiation ritual like Kasumi and touched the Hokuto stone, which makes him live through the lives of every single successor in the history of Hokuto, effectively gaining 1800 years of combat experience. Ken scales above Raoh (who is stated to have surpassed the power of Hokuto itself) and Kaioh who fought on equal grounds against Shachi possessed by the Hokuto goddess (a deity that probably has millions of years worth of experience)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That resistance to Analytical prediction is kinda crazy too.
 
There's no point in voting because currently this is a stomp match. And even if you were to start the battle at a close distance I still don't believe that Kenshiro can touch someone who is described as being infinitely more skilled than extraordinary geniuses who can dodge opponents over 100x faster than them or dodge every drop of rain in a storm before Reid just swings his sword once.
 
VortechsTG said:
There's no point in voting because currently this is a stomp match. And even if you were to start the battle at a close distance I still don't believe that Kenshiro can touch someone who is described as being infinitely more skilled than extraordinary geniuses who can dodge opponents over 100x faster than them or dodge every drop of rain in a storm before Reid just swings his sword once.
Click to expand...
kenshiro could do all of that as a baby
 
VortechsTG said:
Why is the ReZero guy providing the best evidence for Kenshiro's skill claims? Y'all are lame 💀 I'll read this later.
Click to expand...
Tbf, the original skill post was made by someone who is really knowledgeable on FOTNS. Goat for posting it though cuz I actually didn't know that was there.
 
Yeah, I will say there's no question that so far Kenshiro has more variety of hand-to-hand techniques and far better application of things like pressure points, but based on that thread and his profile, his analytical prediction and information analysis seem like they would be pretty middle of the road for ReZero. It also just appears that he doesn't have the same mobility that someone like Cecilus, let alone Reid, has, despite his flight and acrobatics. They seem about the same as far as coming up with and copying new techniques on the fly is concerned.

So tldr Kenshiro is better at throwing hands, but Reid is better at dodging, reading an opponent, and becoming unreadable. If Kenshiro could get to an extremely close h2h range, he would win without question, but Reid would not allow that to happen. All he has to do to win is dodge long enough to swing his sword once, and he wins. Op still has to change the starting distance, but I'll vote Reid now.
 
VortechsTG said:
Honestly, yeah. Though since people were hyping him up so much I assumed there's probably more that isn't on his profile. But if this is meant to be a comprehensive list of his abilities and this is it...
Click to expand...
I was waiting for someone to drop skillslop that will make Reid look like a baby but apparently Reid really is extremely skilled on the wiki...
 
VortechsTG said:
Yeah, I will say there's no question that so far Kenshiro has more variety of hand-to-hand techniques and far better application of things like pressure points, but based on that thread and his profile, his analytical prediction and information analysis seem like they would be pretty middle of the road for ReZero. It also just appears that he doesn't have the same mobility that someone like Cecilus, let alone Reid, has, despite his flight and acrobatics. They seem about the same as far as coming up with and copying new techniques on the fly is concerned.

So tldr Kenshiro is better at throwing hands, but Reid is better at dodging, reading an opponent, and becoming unreadable. If Kenshiro could get to an extremely close h2h range, he would win without question, but Reid would not allow that to happen. All he has to do to win is dodge long enough to swing his sword once, and he wins. Op still has to change the starting distance, but I'll vote Reid now.
Click to expand...
I think Muso Tensei also makes Kenshiro unreadable because he even states "no one can locate my body", but counted.
 
I would agree that Kenshiro qualifies as a fellow user of SkillSlop, but SkillSlop where you have to be near enough to touch your opponent isn't as useful as skillslop that you can use a great distance.
 
The downplay on here is crazy but for starters he has resistance to analytical prediction and precognition at base, which basically all mid to top tiers are good at and he stands at the pinnacle and it’s coupled with his fate manipulation. I do not know why y’all are treating his fate hax like it’s trash when it’s stated severally on his ability page that men of hakuto can control their own fates and govern it . So how exactly is Reid going to dodge his attacks ?
 
G33, no offense but read everything on his, cecilus, theresia, and Reinhard's page
Then Take a breather and read the flow blog and then ask the knowledgeable members on the missing stuff
 
So in conclusion, Kenshiro is more skilled than Reid.
But Reid would win in this scenario, because he have the range advantage.

Kinda sad the only reason Reid is winning is because of that.
 
G33kedzinx said:
I do not know why y’all are treating his fate hax like it’s trash when it’s stated severally on his ability page that men of hakuto can control their own fates and govern it .
Click to expand...
I just haven't seen a feat of like, a Hakuto lad being about to die and then twisting fate so he survives, or twisting fate so that an unbeatable opponent is beaten.

All I've seen is people talking about fate.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I feel with Ken's fate hax, stuff like this would go hand and hand. (Toki, with his sheer skill and talent, bent Raoh's fate and manifested his harbinger of death. conversely, those who experience his wrath are fated to die in accordance to the fact that the Big Dipper (IE, Hokuto) “presides over the fate of all living beings” and “governs death”)

Never mind the fact that Hokuto Ryuken users also have fate stuff going on and Ken also beats Kaioh who uses Hokuto Ryuken who is more powerful than Raoh who also has Fate Manip, but it is similar to the Hokuto Shinken stuff tbf
 
Last edited:
MasterOwOgay said:
Thats not evidence for combat applicable fate hax.
Click to expand...
I don't need to start providing scans already on the blog. You can just go and read about the fate and death hax abilities. He word for word says he is destined not to die, which is consistent with what the old guy says. A far less skilled user compared to Kenshiro could bend his opponent’s fate. The clear references to the connection of fate and Hokuto users are too obvious to say it’s not combat applicable.
 
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