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World Cleavers(Haimura Moroha{Seiken Tsukai no World Break} vs Reid Astrea{Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu}) 0-3-7

bro seems to have some really destructive tendecies frfr
anyways skill matters a lot here since if Reid can just predict where he will strike and then strike back with his own dura neg (which moroha cant cancel out because its also time manipulation while Reid can negate moroha's) then he wins because it will be a one shot
Unless he's shown to fight against infinitely fast attacks, just moving out of the way won't help or anything similar. (Or any similar way) since Moroha targets his opponent. It will, from Reid's perspective, just spawn on him. Doesn't help that Moroha has universal range.
 
Unless he's shown to fight against infinitely fast attacks, just moving out of the way won't help or anything similar. (Or any similar way) since Moroha targets his opponent. It will, from Reid's perspective, just spawn on him. Doesn't help that Moroha has universal range.
Reid can fight against Reinhard and Cecilus who's attack also travel instantaneously, he predicts and gg

in fact isnt this regular spatial manipulation based slash? just with the added CM to it (which doesnt really help it either)
 
Reid can fight against Reinhard and Cecilus who's attack also travel instantaneously, he predicts and gg
Moroha's attack doesn't just travel instantaneously but by ignoring the distance itself it can just spawn on them taking out the travel factor. That's what it means to cut and sever here.
in fact isnt this regular spatial manipulation based slash? just with the added CM to it (which doesnt really help it either)
Nah, it's also universe range and the very idea of something (anything) being cut by Moroha. (Which includes abstract ideas such as "crime")

Also, checked Reinhardts and Cecilius profile and they don't have infinite speed based attacks.

The problem I have with your argument is that your assuming prediction will work here. Let's say he predicts Moroha cutting him. What's his answer? Because Moroha will be cutting the distance itself and Reid. Take the image of Moroha cutting Charles on the profile in the Gallery section. He cut his arm because that's what his target was. It simply severed, it didn't "travel" in the conventional sense at all since the idea of "distance" was severed.
 
Moroha's attack doesn't just travel instantaneously but by ignoring the distance itself it can just spawn on them taking out the travel factor. That's what it means to cut and sever here.
yeah i know, thats what standard space manipulation is
Nah, it's also universe range and the very idea of something (anything) being cut by Moroha. (Which includes abstract ideas such as "crime")
that is conceptual manipulation
Also, checked Reinhardts and Cecilius profile and they don't have infinite speed based attacks.
i am not even sure how it was even agreed that it is infinite speed but yeah Reinhard's attacks cover the entire distance to their arcs without any time lag
Cecilus also has that
I didnt know the wiki treated it as infinite speed but if it does i will have it added later on
The problem I have with your argument is that your assuming prediction will work here. Let's say he predicts Moroha cutting him. What's his answer? Because Moroha will be cutting the distance itself and Reid. Take the image of Moroha cutting Charles on the profile in the Gallery section. He cut his arm because that's what his target was. It simply severed, it didn't "travel" in the conventional sense at all since the idea of "distance" was severed.
he will predict what, how and where moroha will swing before he himself does and move accordingly. Characters who are infinitely less skilled than Reid can deal with analytical precog better than mind reading and teleportation. he will have no problem dodging someone at that level of skill
and as i have stated above, Reinhard and Cecilus can do the same stuff
 
yeah i know, thats what standard space manipulation is
Not really standard.
that is conceptual manipulation
Yeah
i am not even sure how it was even agreed that it is infinite speed but yeah Reinhard's attacks cover the entire distance to their arcs without any time lag
I dont see it. Nothing about "time lag" is mentioned.
Cecilus also has that
Ok?
I didnt know the wiki treated it as infinite speed but if it does i will have it added later on
Its infinite attack speed yeah if it can travel and cut things instantaneously.
he will predict what, how and where moroha will swing before he himself does and move accordingly.
and then he still dies because predicting things still takes time and there is no hope of its already severed you.
Characters who are infinitely less skilled than Reid can deal with analytical precog better than mind reading and teleportation. he will have no problem dodging someone at that level of skill
and as i have stated above, Reinhard and Cecilus can do the same stuff
"No probelm" except for the fact that you can't dodge something after it's already in motion if it is infinitely faster, even predicting takes time. He predicts that moroha swings but then he's dead via instantaneous speed. You can't even counter it since Morohas attack doesn't even travel through a medium "distance". But seemingly Reid's do. So there won't be clashes and even if he predicts arm movement, after it's been "fired", Reid is gone.
 
Not really standard.

Yeah

I dont see it. Nothing about "time lag" is mentioned.

Ok?
it destroys the entire area simultaneously with his sword swing
Its infinite attack speed yeah if it can travel and cut things instantaneously.

and then he still dies because predicting things still takes time and there is no hope of its already severed you.

"No probelm" except for the fact that you can't dodge something after it's already in motion if it is infinitely faster, even predicting takes time. He predicts that moroha swings but then he's dead via instantaneous speed. You can't even counter it since Morohas attack doesn't even travel through a medium "distance". But seemingly Reid's do. So there won't be clashes and even if he predicts arm movement, after it's been "fired", Reid is gone.
you are mixing up immeasurable speed and infinite speed, Reid can move out of the way before the attack is even fired and his perception boost is a jump from MH+ to seeing Light move 100x slower scaling from Cecilus. the prediction would be done as soon as the fight starts and by the time Moroha even decides to swing his sword Reid would have dodged the attack and considering this is a life and death situation even get a blitz amp from his awakened power
oh and Reid's slashes are in fact instantaneous, they simultaneously destroy everything in the path of the swing which is the same feat as Moroha.

In fact, even if you want to disagree, you can still argue that Reid will see moroha and determine that he is about to cut the concept of distance and do it himself before Moroha due to the blitz amp
 
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it destroys the entire area simultaneously with his sword swing
Doesn't really matter here though.
You are mixing up immeasurable speed and infinite speed,
Im not.
Reid can move out of the way before the attack is even fired and his perception boost is a jump from MH+ to seeing Light move 100x slower scaling from Cecilus.
That's cool but still doesn't help him here. Even if such a jump applies here, it would still not matter if his body can't keep up.
the prediction would be done as soon as the fight starts and by the time Moroha even decides to swing his sword Reid would have dodged the attack and considering this is a life and death situation even get a blitz amp from his awakened power
No, speed is equal so Moroha just adjusts himself and cuts him anyway.
oh and Reid's slashes are in fact instantaneous, they simultaneously destroy everything in the path of the swing which is the same feat as Moroha.
morohas feat isnt just destroying everything in its path. Their own slashes wont interract as Morohas just ignores Reids and kills him first, after which Moroha probably dies. (Or dodges)
In fact, even if you want to disagree, you can still argue that Reid will see moroha and determine that he is about to cut the concept of distance and do it himself before Moroha due to the blitz amp
The problem is that cutting the distance is a side effect. And also has he seen attacks from different power sources? Since prana =/= magic. So it would be even less likely if he can know what to do.
 
Sukuna comes into the fight, they fight dealing damage to the King of Curses but then he hits them with a polt amped World Cleave while the narration says he's been holding back. 🔥
 
Doesn't really matter here though.
it does because that is exactly what Moroha does
Im not.

That's cool but still doesn't help him here. Even if such a jump applies here, it would still not matter if his body can't keep up.

No, speed is equal so Moroha just adjusts himself and cuts him anyway.
do you not understand what a blitz amp is? speed equal doesnt apply to amps, Reid will have years to predict his shit and move accordingly
morohas feat isnt just destroying everything in its path. Their own slashes wont interract as Morohas just ignores Reids and kills him first, after which Moroha probably dies. (Or dodges)

The problem is that cutting the distance is a side effect. And also has he seen attacks from different power sources? Since prana =/= magic. So it would be even less likely if he can know what to do.
Yeah, Reid can conceptually cut the concept of distance as well and yes Reid can cut everything in the ReZero verse from Magic to authorities add the fact that he goes first and he will be victorious regardless


Sukuna comes into the fight, they fight dealing damage to the King of Curses but then he hits them with a polt amped World Cleave while the narration says he's been holding back. 🔥
Sukuna is fodder compared to Reid, what the hell would he even do?
 
it does because that is exactly what Moroha does
Moroha can do a bit more even indirectly, but yeah it's about the same.
do you not understand what a blitz amp is? speed equal doesnt apply to amps, Reid will have years to predict his shit and move accordingly
I mean, Moroha can adapt to being blitzed, like how Leysha was speed blitzing him from the beginning and moments later he was on her level and then no diffed her. But anyway, it doesn't really matter since it still takes time to amp and a slash will already be traveling that Reid can't dodge after being fired?
Yeah, Reid can conceptually cut the concept of distance as well and yes Reid can cut everything in the ReZero verse from Magic to authorities add the fact that he goes first and he will be victorious regardless
The question is if he cuts the concept of distance passively or does he have to select it? Mars at its core by default remves distance and attacks the target itself so for now it's a bit more impressive to me.
Sukuna is fodder compared to Reid, what the hell would he even do?
He was joking lol
 
Moroha starts off with his Mars (world slash) attack. Does Reid have an answer to an instantaneous CM2 move that 1 shots?

Edit: Yeah, seems Reid has something similar to Moroha's mars. So, inconclusive? Voting Inconclusive for now.
Counted and thanks for joining in.
 
Moroha can do a bit more even indirectly, but yeah it's about the same.

I mean, Moroha can adapt to being blitzed, like how Leysha was speed blitzing him from the beginning and moments later he was on her level and then no diffed her. But anyway, it doesn't really matter since it still takes time to amp and a slash will already be traveling that Reid can't dodge after being fired?
thats not how RE works what are you talking about? Reid gets amped instantly, there is no time taken for that nor will it take any time for him to amp his perception those are passive when he is in danger
Moreover as i have explained above Reid has dealt with characters with essentially the same ability
The question is if he cuts the concept of distance passively or does he have to select it? Mars at its core by default remves distance and attacks the target itself so for now it's a bit more impressive to me.
Reid just cuts what he wants to, if he notices Moroha trying to cut the concept of distance he would do it too (if its the optimal solution)
He was joking lol
Always bet on Sukuna if Gege is writing.
Go/Jo victim
 
thats not how RE works what are you talking about? Reid gets amped instantly, there is no time taken for that nor will it take any time for him to amp his perception those are passive when he is in danger
Would he be in danger against an island level opponent? Oh and at the start you were saying it's a perception boost so it doesn't really matter if his body can't keep up.
Moreover as i have explained above Reid has dealt with characters with essentially the same ability
If he hasn't dealt with an ability that has more gimmicks at his core then that won't help him.
Reid just cuts what he wants to, if he notices Moroha trying to cut the concept of distance he would do it too (if its the optimal solution)
Except Moroha doesn't cut the concept of distance directly, it is a byproduct of trying to reach his opponent which Reid would likely only see himself as the target. If his previous opponents don't do what Moroha does as a byproduct then he might be in a jam.
 
I kindly request that you refrain from revisiting arguments I have previously addressed, as going around in circles only wastes our time.
Would he be in danger against an island level opponent?
with dura neg hax? yes.
Oh and at the start you were saying it's a perception boost so it doesn't really matter if his body can't keep up.
i have already said it before but the perception boost isnt the only amp, he also gets his awakened power activated and its a physical blitz amp
If he hasn't dealt with an ability that has more gimmicks at his core then that won't help him.
??
what are you trying to say exactly
Except Moroha doesn't cut the concept of distance directly, it is a byproduct of trying to reach his opponent which Reid would likely only see himself as the target.
no? what kind of headcanon is that? When you copy an ability you dont also copy the target as well, either way Reid has enough time to use the same technique before he does
If his previous opponents don't do what Moroha does as a byproduct then he might be in a jam.
No clue what you are talking about here
 
I kindly request that you refrain from revisiting arguments I have previously addressed, as going around in circles only wastes our time.
Wdym?
with dura neg hax? yes.
How so? Is there a precedent?

Edit: Asking because of this section on his profile:
Reid is both arrogant and lustful, which can lead him to hold back against women and weaker opponents.

As it stands, Moroha is physically weaker by 10s of thousands of times, if not more. Could definitely happen that Reid is arrogant and doesnt expect Moroha to instantly bisect him.
i have already said it before but the perception boost isnt the only amp, he also gets his awakened power activated and its a physical blitz amp
Dont see it on his profile. Can you quote the section?
??
what are you trying to say exactly
Your argument of Reid simply changing his target to distance also, takes time. So, if he hasn't shown to deal with it accordingly against an attack that by default removes the obstacle of "distance" then he will be cut quicker then he can do anything.
no? what kind of headcanon is that? When you copy an ability you dont also copy the target as well, either way Reid has enough time to use the same technique before he does
What head canon are you talking about? What copying are you bringing in? Can you explain more?
No clue what you are talking about here
Your argument relies solely on the assumption that Reid has time to do anything against Moroha, however, unless he's dealt with someone's attacks which are as straightforward as Moroha's (e.g. removes distance as a by-product opposed to Reid having to target "distance") then Moroha has a chance to win quicker even if he also loses under the assumption Reid also manages to fire off his attack. (Which is why I think the match is an incon)
 
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Wdym?

How so? Is there a precedent?

Edit: Asking because of this section on his profile:


As it stands, Moroha is physically weaker by 10s of thousands of times, if not more. Could definitely happen that Reid is arrogant and doesnt expect Moroha to instantly bisect him.
He gets serious against pure fodder too so that really isnt the case or a proper arguement and he has info analysis, he would know what abiltiies moroha has. He can even figure out authorities
Dont see it on his profile. Can you quote the section?
far higher perception speed (Superior to Cecilus, who was able to perceive himself as near-frozen)
This boost is enough for Reid to spend YEARS analysing Moroha before he even thinks once
Awakened Power (In life or death, or intense fights,[3] Wilhelm has been shown to become far faster and vastly more skilled, which is described as placing his foot on the steps towards the Heavenly Sword)
Wilhelm could blitz kurgan when he was about to be killed, Reid scales above this so much thay even an eternity of training wouldnt let him be on the same level
Your argument of Reid simply changing his target to distance also, takes time. So, if he hasn't shown to deal with it accordingly against an attack that by default removes the obstacle of "distance" then he will be cut quicker then he can do anything.
Are you ignoring my previous answers on purpose?
One word: Reinhard.
What head canon are you talking about? What copying are you bringing in? Can you explain more?
He can do what Moroha can BEFORE Moroha can due to his amp
Your argument relies solely on the assumption that Reid has time to do anything against Moroha, however, unless he's dealt with someone's attacks which are as straightforward as Moroha's (e.g. removes distance as a by-product opposed to Reid having to target "distance") then Moroha has a chance to win quicker even if he also loses under the assumption Reid also manages to fire off his attack. (Which is why I think the match is an incon)
Do you not know what a BLITZ is?
Moroha would be frozen due to the sheer speed gap between Reid and him
 
He gets serious against pure fodder too so that really isnt the case or a proper arguement and he has info analysis, he would know what abiltiies moroha has. He can even figure out authorities


This boost is enough for Reid to spend YEARS analysing Moroha before he even thinks once

Wilhelm could blitz kurgan when he was about to be killed, Reid scales above this so much thay even an eternity of training wouldnt let him be on the same level

Are you ignoring my previous answers on purpose?
One word: Reinhard.

He can do what Moroha can BEFORE Moroha can due to his amp

Do you not know what a BLITZ is?
Moroha would be frozen due to the sheer speed gap between Reid and him
"Infinite Speed (Able to travel any finite distance in zero time, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below).The difference between infinite and immeasurable is that the former can go everywhere in zero time, whereas the latter can go everywhere and everywhen faster than in zero time. For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period."

Since Reid is FTL(+) and he doesn't reach Massively FTL range even with his amps(and even if he did the fact would still remain that Infinite speed is still faster than even Massively FTL) I think it's safe to say that Haimura can and will be able to hit Reid here. With that said, since Reid's speed is faster than Haimura's reactions that also means that the latter won't be able to evade the former's attack thus resulting in a mutual kill, so I think Inconclusive is in fact the right choice here.
 
Yeah, I still remain inconclusive. Though, I will make a few more arguments in a few days. Currently a bit busy IRL, and I have to get some things straight with the scaling on World Break.

Edit: If more people will vote inconclusive then that's fine, I will refrain from making more arguments in that case.
 
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Since Reid is FTL(+) and he doesn't reach Massively FTL range even with his amps(and even if he did the fact would still remain that Infinite speed is still faster than even Massively FTL) I think it's safe to say that Haimura can and will be able to hit Reid here. With that said, since Reid's speed is faster than Haimura's reactions that also means that the latter won't be able to evade the former's attack thus resulting in a mutual kill, so I think Inconclusive is in fact the right choice hehere.
If Moroha attacks then it would be an infinite speed attack and Reid wouldnt be able to stop it HOWEVER if he kills him BEFORE he launches the attack then only Moroha will die
Does that make sense?
 
If Moroha attacks then it would be an infinite speed attack and Reid wouldnt be able to stop it HOWEVER if he kills him BEFORE he launches the attack then only Moroha will die
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I get it. You're saying that Reid would be able to kill Haimura before the latter finishes his attack, thus canceling it. With that said, since speed is equalized in this match and Haimura has Immortality(Type 7) I think it's safe to that he would be able to finish his attack, which will once again result in a draw.
 
Yeah, I get it. You're saying that Reid would be able to kill Haimura before the latter finishes his attack, thus canceling it. With that said, since speed is equalized in this match and Haimura has Immortality(Type 7) I think it's safe to that he would be able to finish his attack, which will once again result in a draw.
Did you not read my arguement for 69420th time?
It is exactky because speed is equalized that Reid will be faster
He has a blitz amp over a perception boost that gives him years of time
Speed Blitz is the act of one attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them. Blitzing is different than outpacing, where a character is simply faster than the other. A blitz is more like an all around outclassing in speed
 
Did you not read my arguement for 69420th time?
It is exactky because speed is equalized that Reid will be faster
He has a blitz amp over a perception boost that gives him years of time
Uh what are you talking about? Isn't speed equalized to the character's combat speed? Why are you assuming that Haimura would get equalized to Reid's Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed? They would be both SOL in this match with Reid being faster due to his "far higher" ratings so Haimura is more than capable of landing/finishing an attack here.
 
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Uh what are you talking about? Isn't speed equalized to the character's combat speed? Why are you assuming that Haimura would get equalized to Reid's Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed? They would be both SOL in this match with Reid being faster due to his "far higher" ratings so Haimura is more than capable of landing/finishing an attack here.
What part of à blitz amp do you not understand?
they are both SoL but Ŕeid has a passive in-combat perception boost that is so massive that he appears frozen to himself, since Moroha is also the same speed he will also be frozen and then Reid will instinctively get his awakened power amp due to being in danger of being killed by the infinite speed attack. This is a speed amp big enough to physically blitz a comparable in speed opponent
This is what a speed blitz is:
Speed Blitz is the act of one attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them. Blitzing is different than outpacing, where a character is simply faster than the other. A blitz is more like an all around outclassing in speed

Moroha wouldn't be able to percieve his end, it would be over as soon as the fight starts
 
Either both can 1 shot each other so it's an inconclusive.

Or raid passively gets a 100x amp and stomps. (Apparently his weakness section doesn't matter as real weakness since he goes out against even those weaker than him)
Incon FRA then. If the weakness is in the profile that's all there is to it unless it's removed.

Also pretty sure he doesn't go all out against those weaker than him. He can still do the concept cutting IC but he doesn't literally go all out IC.
 
Honestly, the same can be applied to the 100x amp. Reid doesn't have MFTL reactions or a possibility to get there on his profile, it's just "far higher", but it is what it 🤷
Only applies to combat, reaction and perception speed. According to the profile his movement speed doesn't increase and even then the speed section makes no mention of a 100x amp.
 
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