The Echo of a hero vs The Ancient Hero (0-8-0) (GRACE)

[SatellaTheWoE]

No. Medaka man stomps

Thats not an arguement-

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

How does Iihiko lose again? He already negs stuff like Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), no? and supernatural luck (borderline plot armor) is something Reid can’t get around.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

How does Iihiko lose again? He already negs stuff like Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), no?

his weakness is that if its a new type of attack then he will recognise it as such and Reid can make up optimal everything on the fly and for any situation

and supernatural luck (borderline plot armor) is something Reid can’t get around.

That gives him a better chance but the skill gap is so massjve that it did be surprising if Iihiko would normally even be able to hit him
His supernatural luck would at best increase his odds of that

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

(I literally just had someone reply to me, where did that message go? Anyway)

I think I agree with Everything12's take on it. To add on to it, Medaka's luck literally makes it so someone like Ajimu can't even beat her. As for him being "hit by other characters", you can argue that was because Iihiko himself literally viewed them as "fresh", which you have to do and or trick him in someway into viewing it as fresh to harm him in any way shape or form, which he wasn't damaged at all from any of that. (unless it's smurf hax or something).

Also what skill gap if I may ask? Iihiko has been around for over 5000 years, much longer than Reid.

 

[MysticBrawler]

(I literally just had someone reply to me, where did that message go? Anyway)

I think I agree with Everything12's take on it. To add on to it, Medaka's luck literally makes it so someone like Ajimu can't even beat her. As for him being "hit by other characters", you can argue that was because Iihiko himself literally viewed them as "fresh", which you have to do and or trick him in someway into viewing it as fresh to harm him in any way shape or form, which he wasn't damaged at all from any of that. (unless it's smurf hax or something).

Also what skill gap if I may ask? Iihiko has been around for over 5000 years, much longer than Reid.

Did you read my response to him? Cause this is what I said:

I already know how luck works in Medaka Box, the problem is that 1)(as far as I can recall) Iihiko himself hasn't really displayed any luck feats so there is no way to know if this would even come into play, and 2) He has been hit multiple times by different characters. With that said, even if Iihiko's luck did come into play I think it's safe to assume that Reid would still be able to hit him since he more than likely is the more skilled of the two.

Also Iihiko being 5000 years old doesn't really mean anything when he spent most of his time being idle in the Shiranui Village.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Did you read my response to him? Cause this is what I said:

Also Iihiko being 5000 years old doesn't really mean anything when he spent most of his time being idle in the Shiranui Village.

I did read the argument, and I don't agree, especially since the Supernatural Luck is passive so "there is no way to know if this would even come into play" makes no sense. (that's just what supernatural luck is), Ajimu (who is 3-A on the wiki) couldn't even beat him, and the manga makes that very clear.

I honestly think Reid literally cannot win because of it.

 

[MysticBrawler]

I did read the argument, and I don't agree, especially since the Supernatural Luck is passive so "there is no way to know if this would even come into play" makes no sense. (that's just what supernatural luck is), Ajimu (who is 3-A on the wiki) couldn't even beat him, and the manga makes that very clear.

I honestly think Reid literally cannot win because of it.

You not agreeing with my argument doesn't really affect it's validity. The fact still remains that his Supernatural Luck didn't display any feats throughout any of his fights and he has been hit by characters who were a lot weaker than him. With that said, I believe this will either be a non-factor or won't be enough to overcome the skill gap between him and Reid. Also I don't think Ajimu not being able to beat Iihiko really counts for skill when the reason why that is the case is because the latter can negate all of the abilities of the former.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

You not agreeing with my argument doesn't really affect its validity. The fact still remains that his Supernatural Luck didn't display any feats throughout any of his fights and he has been hit by characters who were a lot weaker than him. With that said, I believe this will either be a non-factor or won't be enough to overcome the skill gap between him and Reid. Also I don't think Ajimu not being able to beat Iihiko really counts for skill when the reason why that is the case is because the latter can negate all of the abilities of the former.

You completely missed the point of what I was even saying. The Supernatural luck is comparable to Medaka’s, which literally makes it so Reid cannot win because Iihiko is also a “Hero”.

My Ajimu argument wasn’t a skill related thing either, it was a way of saying that Ajimu cannot win because of his supernatural luck (even when Ajimu was talking about Medaka she said she couldn’t beat her even if she disabled her powers).

Your argument is basically saying the supernatural luck doesn’t matter, when I’m giving proof that it would, which affects the validity.

 

[Catpija]

his weakness is that if its a new type of attack then he will recognise it as such and Reid can make up optimal everything on the fly and for any situation

Wouldn't Iihiko just reflect them back to Reid himself if it does work?

 

[MysticBrawler]

You completely missed the point of what I was even saying. The Supernatural luck is comparable to Medaka’s, which literally makes it so Reid cannot win because Iihiko is also a “Hero”.

My Ajimu argument wasn’t a skill related thing either, it was a way of saying that Ajimu cannot win because of his supernatural luck (even when Ajimu was talking about Medaka she said she couldn’t beat her even if she disabled her powers).

Your argument is basically saying the supernatural luck doesn’t matter, when I’m giving proof that it would, which affects the validity.

Actually my argument wasn't that Iihiko's Supernatural Luck doesn't matter, it's that it's an unreliable wincon to use in this fight for the reasons that I stated. Also no offense, but I think saying that Iihiko would be unbeatable due to his Supernatural Luck is already veering into NLF territory especially when he has no luck feats to support that claim.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Actually my argument wasn't that Iihiko's Supernatural Luck doesn't matter, it's that it's an unreliable wincon to use in this fight for the reasons that I stated. Also no offense, but I think saying that Iihiko would be unbeatable due to his Supernatural Luck is already veering into NLF territory especially when he has no luck feats to support that claim.

Him scaling to Medaka’s “The Hero” luck is more than enough, given he’s a hero himself.

I never said Iihiko was entirely unbeatable, he can still lose if the person has the right hax or resistances to deal with that (like Zenkichi’s Devil Style can make it not matter.). It just screws Reid over really badly because he doesn’t have the proper resistances to even do anything about it. Even if bloodlusted, he wouldn’t think of making new attacks constantly to harm Iihiko due to said Supernatural luck.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Him scaling to Medaka’s “The Hero” luck is more than enough, given he’s a hero himself.

I never said Iihiko was entirely unbeatable, he can still lose if the person has the right hax or resistances to deal with that (like Zenkichi’s Devil Style can make it not matter.). It just screws Reid over really badly because he doesn’t have the proper resistances to even do anything about it. Even if bloodlusted, he wouldn’t think of making new attacks constantly to harm Iihiko due to said Supernatural luck.

He has prior knowledge, look at OP

Wouldn't Iihiko just reflect them back to Reid himself if it does work?

Reid wouldn't have any trouble with dodging or negating his own attack if Iihiko manages to reflect it

Also what skill gap if I may ask? Iihiko has been around for over 5000 years, much longer than Reid.

Its better for you if you dont argue about skill against Reid
Every skill feat on his profile is something he upscales to so much from that even eternity of training wouldnt let those characters reach him.
Whats worse is that some of those characters have been stated to be above an eternity against even the high mid tiers like Ram who can copy someone's lifelong culmination of martial arts, attacks etc. By seeing them once. She can even copy Authorities which oppose Od Laguna itself (basically world breaking abilities) and amp herself quintillions of times
Elsa who can still hit her opponents vitals while having all of her senses cut off and mind floating in a void.
There are just way too many feats to list them tbh

 

[MysticBrawler]

Him scaling to Medaka’s “The Hero” luck is more than enough, given he’s a hero himself.

I never said Iihiko was entirely unbeatable, he can still lose if the person has the right hax or resistances to deal with that (like Zenkichi’s Devil Style can make it not matter.). It just screws Reid over really badly because he doesn’t have the proper resistances to even do anything about it. Even if bloodlusted, he wouldn’t think of making new attacks constantly to harm Iihiko due to said Supernatural luck.

No, but you are saying that anyone who doesn't have Resistance Negation and/or Probability Manipulation automatically loses to Iihiko which also veers into NLF territory since again his luck was never shown to be that potent and/or that reliable to begin with.

 

[Catpija]

Reid wouldn't have any trouble with dodging or negating his own attack if Iihiko manages to reflect it

So in the end, Reid still doesn't have a way to harm Iihiko.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Everything12’s already gives reasons as to why something like Supernatural Luck wouldn’t be unreliable, it would be very reliable in fact.

I’ve said all I need to tbh

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Everything12’s already gives reasons as to why something like Supernatural Luck wouldn’t be unreliable, it would be very reliable in fact.

I’ve said all I need to tbh

Reid is extreme high diff for Reinhard who has probability manipulation + godly intuition which stacks and makes it impossible to hit him along with ranged attacks straight up never reaching him
So, just probability manipulation/supernatural luck by itself is not enough

 

[VortechsTG]

Reid is extreme high diff for Reinhard who has probability manipulation + godly intuition which stacks and makes it impossible to hit him along with ranged attacks straight up never reaching him
So, just probability manipulation/supernatural luck by itself is not enough

That is a good point. Reinhard has all that on top of being so absurdly skilled that he can literally ignore physics and read the minds of those who are already skill gods themselves and he still only seems to beat Reid because he's unkillable.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Reid is extreme high diff for Reinhard who has probability manipulation + godly intuition which stacks and makes it impossible to hit him along with ranged attacks straight up never reaching him
So, just probability manipulation/supernatural luck by itself is not enough

“possibly Probability Manipulation” is wild. Is the probability hax passive like Iihiko’s supernatural luck?

The probability hax doesn’t seem better than Iihiko’s luck anyway. Iihiko “The Hero” Luck = Medaka “The Hero” Luck > Other Abnormals luck.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

“possibly Probability Manipulation” is wild. Is the probability hax passive like Iihiko’s supernatural luck?

The probability hax doesn’t seem better than Iihiko’s luck anyway. Iihiko “The Hero” Luck = Medaka “The Hero” Luck > Other Abnormals luck.

Iihiko with his shit cannot even touch Reinhard
Its listed as "probably" because we didnt know how to list it because it can go to law hax, probability manipulation or smth else entirely

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Iihiko with his shit cannot even touch Reinhard
Its listed as "probably" because we didnt know how to list it because it can go to law hax, probability manipulation or smth else entirely

"Iihiko with his shit cannot even touch Reinhard"

Bro didn't even provide proof he could get by Iihiko's hax and just put skull emoji. I'm looking at Reinhard's profile and almost all of those abilities have been negged by Iihiko in the past (that Immortality might be a problem though)

This match isn’t about Reinhard so I’ll leave him out of this,

Even if Iihiko sees the attack as fresh, he can still attack reflect just fine (which he literally does to Medaka after seeing one of her punches as fresh)

You have not proved that there is anything stopping Iihiko from reflecting any of Reid’s attacks, and if he gets hit by his own move at all (which there is a high chance that might happen because Iihiko’s luck is so high) then he gets pulverized due to his Multi Continental durability (granted he still has some has hax that could prevent that but meh)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

"Iihiko with his shit cannot even touch Reinhard"

Bro didn't even provide proof he could get by Iihiko's hax and just put skull emoji. I'm looking at Reinhard's profile and almost all of those abilities have been negged by Iihiko in the past (that Immortality might be a problem though)

I am talking about skill and dodge hax-
Anyways, Reinhard mind manipulates gg
Also iihiko just doesnt have a way to get past his immortality so yeah.

This match isn’t about Reinhard so I’ll leave him out of this,

Even if Iihiko sees the attack as fresh, he can still attack reflect just fine (which he literally does to Medaka after seeing one of her punches as fresh)

he gets outskilled pretty hard and even ReZero mid tier fodders like Garfiel and Julius who are multiple eternities of training below Reid can also do that

You have not proved that there is anything stopping Iihiko from reflecting any of Reid’s attacks, and if he gets hit by his own move at all (which there is a high chance that might happen because Iihiko’s luck is so high)

Reid himself is the thing stopping him from reflecting his attack

then he gets pulverized due to his Multi Continental durability (granted he still has some has hax that could prevent that but meh)

His durability is moon level too + he can neg blunt attack and cut any other down

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

he gets outskilled pretty hard and even ReZero mid tier fodders like Garfiel and Julius who are multiple eternities of training below Reid can also do that

Reid himself is the thing stopping him from reflecting his attack

His durability is moon level too + he can neg blunt attack and cut any other down

1. The Supernatural luck should still at the very least would lessen the skill gap a lot.

2. So wouldn't Iihiko just eventually break the attacks and or make them not effect him?

3. Damn that needs to be updated cuz that says Multi Continental not Moon level (Then again, Iihiko's profile is just as bad. He shouldn't even be Moon level.)

(All this talk about skill makes me wanna do a Kenshiro match against Reinhard or Reid lmaoo)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

1. The Supernatural luck should still at the very least would lessen the skill gap a lot.

Yeah, thats why this isnt a stomp

2. So wouldn't Iihiko just eventually break the attacks and or make them not effect him?

It would appear fresh to him each time, so no

3. Damn that needs to be updated cuz that says Multi Continental not Moon level (Then again, Iihiko's profile is just as bad. He shouldn't even be Moon level.)

Just noticed, you are right

(All this talk about skill makes me wanna do a Kenshiro match against Reinhard or Reid lmaoo)

Both stomp unfortunately

 

[Fezzih_007]

Both stomp unfortunately

I don't think so, Reid atleast seems a fair match weirdly enough.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Both stomp unfortunately

Kenshiro has some pretty good hax and has incap options so I doubt it. Idk would win that though.

 

[Livinmeme]

Skill isn't bypassing THAT level of supernatural luck

 

[Fezzih_007]

His durability is moon level too + he can neg blunt attack and cut any other down

Why?
Like, he only have moon level attack with the Sword Reid, but the sword don't increase his durability.
Reinhard and Theresia are the same lol.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I don't think so, Reid atleast seems a fair match weirdly enough.

Kenshiro has some pretty good hax and has incap options so I doubt it. Idk would win that though.

Quick reminder that since we now have a actual showcase of that feat, we now know that Reids ranged sword attacks dont have travel time. He can vaguely slash at you with a chopstick and you would be bisected
Sure if you wanna make a matchup with him and Reid you can go ahead

Skill isn't bypassing THAT level of supernatural luck

He manages to bypass multiple stacks of skill god tier dodge, instinctive action, info analysis, Analytical prediction which all upscale from an eternity of training
Divine blessing is straight up hax for dodging and comes under either law or probability manipulation
Supernatural luck wont be completely useless , I agree but Iihiko isnt even in the same dimension as the god tiers

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Why?
Like, he only have moon level attack with the Sword Reid, but the sword don't increase his durability.
Reinhard and Theresia are the same lol.

I think the profile is out of date, since Reinhard was taking hits Satella from who has straight up 5-C AP, and Reid scales. but I don't know anything about Re:Zero, only heard about it from time to time so there is probably something I'm missing.

Quick reminder that since we now have a actual showcase of that feat, we now know that Reids ranged sword attacks dont have travel time. He can vaguely slash at you with a chopstick and you would be bisected
Sure if you wanna make a matchup with him and Reid you can go ahead

I'll argue my points for Ken if that match ever gets made, hope this helps.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I think the profile is out of date, since Reinhard was taking hits Satella from who has straight up 5-C AP, and Reid scales. but I don't know anything about Re:Zero, only heard about it from time to time so there is probably something I'm missing.

Nah, he never take hits from Satella.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I think the profile is out of date, since Reinhard was taking hits Satella from who has straight up 5-C AP, and Reid scales. but I don't know anything about Re:Zero, only heard about it from time to time so there is probably something I'm missing.

I'll argue my points for Ken if that match ever gets made, hope this helps.

They have an eternal battle so she has to be comparable otherwise she just dies, most of the Rezero god tiers have dura neg anyways

 

[Livinmeme]

Quick reminder that since we now have a actual showcase of that feat, we now know that Reids ranged sword attacks dont have travel time. He can vaguely slash at you with a chopstick and you would be bisected
Sure if you wanna make a matchup with him and Reid you can go ahead


He manages to bypass multiple stacks of skill god tier dodge, instinctive action, info analysis, Analytical prediction which all upscale from an eternity of training
Divine blessing is straight up hax for dodging and comes under either law or probability manipulation
Supernatural luck wont be completely useless , I agree but Iihiko isnt even in the same dimension as the god tiers

Impressive. But explain me how me manages to bypass luck that can makes something in the trillons, happen constantly

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Impressive. But explain me how me manages to bypass luck that can makes something in the trillons, happen constantly

Reinhard's probability manipulation is a guaranteed dodge or a miss
Probability manipulation>supernatural luck

 

[VortechsTG]

Satella it's time to let it go

 

[VortechsTG]

Reid vs Kenshiro looks like it could be an interesting match

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reid vs Kenshiro looks like it could be an interesting match

Indeed

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Reid fra

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reid fra

Grace has ended a whìle ago but i will count your vote

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with @FoxySonicMaster108

the vote count is 8-5

lihiko is clutching..

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i agree with @FoxySonicMaster108

the vote count is 8-5

lihiko is clutching..

Nobody has voted for Iihiko yet.