Recent Question...

[Dekoshu]

I kept seeing battles of Saint Seiya and Dragon Ball Super, and I, along with many others, are getting tired of it. Actually, more than just tired, quite controllably angry. So I am going to speak this partitcular question, are there are opponents outside from Seiya's reality that they can't just inflict atomic damage to or do anything else, even outpacing them, and not just because they're immortal?

What kind of fighters, and I don't mean just their ability, would be able to completely be immune to their method of hitting their foes' atoms?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Saint seiya is just an over powered verse but there should be people they can match up with i think but in it's own tier though dragon ball is probably the only popular verse people know of which is why it often gets matched up with it but dragon ball just isn't on it's level. Is there any verse that can match it idk probably can find a few characters here and there but a whole verse with similar tiering to match up thats actually a good match idk. It isn't just the hax in saint seiya that makes it broken but the speed as well, i can't think of any verse that's mftl+ that has speed on the level of saint seiya.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Catching up is not enough. They need to be more than simply annoyng and able to challenge Pegasus Seiya and everybody else, and more than just match up with them all.

That's probably asking for too much even if a character is able to resist seiya's atomic hax, seiya is too fast for them to tag and seeing as we want a good match they would have to be in the same tier so seiya would also have the dc to match so seiya would win, though if speed was equalized it would be a good match but seiya can also adapt to any technique after seeing it only once or something like that so seiya would probably still win.You have to have disgusting hax to beat seiya, wait can't he ressurect yea so even if you can beat him he would just keep coming back unless you have something like casuality or conceptual manipulation you can't put him down for good, man this dude is broke

 

[Dekoshu]

Catching up is not enough. They need to be more than simply annoying and able to challenge Pegasus Seiya and everybody else, and more than just match up with them all. It's so obnoxious to see fight after fight to see this that boils down to "Saint Seiya wins because of atomization. Because they adapt to any technique after seeing it for once. And they can resurrect even if they finally died for real." For once, somebody who isn't from Goku's reality is actually not included of being atomized or even killed by them.

All right. What actual existing people who consistently have the manupulation of concepts and casuality, can actually take all of them down? I could think of the Outer Gods, but who else?

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Atomic destruction is actually fodder in Saint seiya they have ridiculous hax like one iirc can kill with thoughts at sextillions FTL speeds....

 

[Dekoshu]

Atomic destruction is actually fodder in Saint seiya they have ridiculous hax like one iirc can kill with thoughts at sextillions FTL speeds....

Oh boy. But seriously, could you please name me any existing individual who is infinitely beyond all means of Seiya beating them who aren't absolutely omnipotent? I already mentioned the Outer Gods.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Atomic destruction is actually fodder in Saint seiya they have ridiculous hax like one iirc can kill with thoughts at sextillions FTL speeds....

I know atomic hax is just a basic ability they got more ridiculous stuff which makes matching them against anyone in their tier difficult, saint seiya is just too broken for most verses to handle i can't even think of a good match up for them.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Some digimons,some pokemons,dark Schneider could probably beat a lot too

 

[Dekoshu]

Why do I have to explain myself to this?! All right, I can think of Beyonder, Asriel Dreemurr, and the Living Tribunal. Who else, and please mention their names, so it's not just any individual.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

I know atomic hax is just a basic ability they got more ridiculous stuff which makes matching them against anyone in their tier difficult, saint seiya is just too broken for most verses to handle i can't even think of a good match up for them.

Yeah especially the God tiers like Cronus it's just too ridiculous

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Why do I have to explain myself to this?! All right, I can think of Beyonder, Asriel Dreemurr, Living Tribunal. Who else, and please mention their names, so it's not just any individual.

Those are all people above their tier i think not sure about asriel but he probably is, the problem is matching them with others in their tier and it not being a stomp.

 

[Dekoshu]

No. "Broken", "overpowered", and "insane", and anything similar fails to formally describe how almost impossible to beat or surpass them all, not just most of them. The reason why I made this important question because I want people to be aware of how seriously this is negatively mentally affecting people, and how frequently this is occuring with people from Goku's side, with the latter side getting trounced again and again. I have yet to see an actual win and not just a stomp, but a Win, on Dragon Ball's or rather, Son Goku's side. You think equalizing and restricting or outright prohibit their ability of atomization and other miscellaneous abilities would enough for them to finally win, right? I don't think so.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No. "Broken", "overpowered", and "insane", and anything similar fails to formally describe how almost impossible to beat or surpass them all, not just most of them. The reason why I made this important question because I want people to be aware of how seriously this is negatively mentally affecting people, and how frequently this is occuring with people from Goku's side, with the latter side getting trounced again and again. I have yet to see an actual win and not just a stomp, but a Win, on Dragon Ball's or rather, Son Goku's side. You think equalizing and restricting or outright prohibit their abilty of atomization and other miscellaneous abilities would enough for them to finally win, right? I don't think so.

Restricting the atomic hax would be like restricting goku's kamehameha or instant transmission and even with that restricted you would have to equalize speed which again is taking away from seiya, if you have to take away so much for one character to win against the other then the match isn't worth it in the first place. I think people should just leave saint seiya characters alone as they are too broken to be matched up against unless the opponent has superior speed which is almost unlikely unless you're the flash and are boosted on the speed on the entire planet, and the other party needs to have suffiecient hax.

 

[Dekoshu]

But they won't and that's why it'll require a staff to update a policy or whatever, so people cannot just abuse this without being warned.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

Why do I have to explain myself to this?! All right, I can think of Beyonder, Asriel Dreemurr, Living Tribunal. Who else, and please mention their names, so it's not just any individual.

Here is a few.........Franklin Richards, Mad Jim jaspers, Molecule man, Mr mxyzptlk, Anti-monitor, Madoka kaname, Bill cipher, Demi-fiend, Enerjak, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, The beyonders(group), Lucifer Morningstar, and Michael Demiurgos.....

 

[Dekoshu]

Why do I have to explain myself to this?! All right, I can think of Beyonder, Asriel Dreemurr, Living Tribunal. Who else, and please mention their names, so it's not just any individual.

Here is a few.........Franklin Richards, Mad Jim jaspers, Molecule man, Mr mxyzptlk, Anti-monitor, Madoka kaname, Bill cipher, Demi-fiend, Enerjak, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, The beyonders(group), Lucifer Morningstar, and Michael Demiurgos.....

Thank you. You know, this isn't just annoying to see "Goku vs Saint", it's also mentally inflammatory and obnoxious.

 

[Dekoshu]

How about this? I'll tell you right now. Can any Saint in any cloth or any Deity or Titan or anybody else worth noting from Seiya's reality ever hope to atomize those beings, outspeed, resurrect at the same level of strength, kill with illusions, etc. It's beyond boring, it's driving people mad, not want to get involved and hate the Saint Seiya series, etc.

Can they atomize Nyarlahotep? No. Can they outspeed the Beyonder? No. Can they kill somebody with illusions like the Choushin?? No. Can they resurrect or regenerate from Elder God Demonbane or Hajun who has infinite Taikyoku? No. Can they adapt to an excessively higher-dimensional being? No. This is how limited the possibilities are compared to the others to find somebody who can outright defeat Seiya, not just equal him and the other Saints. They have to be unconditionally impossible (meaning you can't just "nerf them" and banning them cannot change the truth that they would outright win) to find a tier from Saint Seiya's side to counter or even challenge, literally and absolutely impossible to equal to or adapt to, even at their strongest, impossible to do their usual thing to, impossible to see the true form of these attacks the beings launch on, since they are very higher-dimensional or beyond dimensional, as well as unbound by the third dimension and fifth dimension, wean means no, they can't just adapt to and counter six-dimensional or higher to infinite dimensional power and abilities.

You cannot realistically equalize their speed, since who from Seiya's side can realistically be immeasurable or omnipresence and is eleven-dimensional? None. You cannot just take away their ability from these individuals, since their abilities and their existence are beyond the rules of VS Battles. Bloodlust won't be enough, since the aforementioned beings can manipulate that and make lethal of anyone from the Saints.

In other words, it's not just hundred wins that Seiya and the others win against Goku and the others from his reality, it's almost or completely everybody else, and infinitely so. Do you know how many times the staff have to see over and over against until some of them "That's enough! We need to put our foot down and do something about!"?

 

[Penguinkingpin]

Thank you Deko, for summing my concerns for DBS and SS.

 

[Dekoshu]

Thank you Deko, for summing my concerns for DBS and SS.

You're welcome. The point is clear: for once, let's not just list people who can make make Seiya's people reality curse and scream and unlike their reality, as the results won't be an illogical, truly unrealistic "Seiya becomes even more powerful than before and defeat the Ultimate Madoka". No. It's "Madoka wins against Seiya thoroughly. Not a baffling tie." For once, fan bias for Saint Seiya can't save them. For once, the Saints have no last words to say. For once, nobody can just say "atomic destruction", "resurrection" or anything else on Seiya's side.

Let's completely and objectively explain why they can beat without any vagueness, formally, well explained, and not just their "hax" or tier.

 

[Dekoshu]

Why I listed those beings? Because unlike Pegasus Seiya and the others, they are more than just equals to them. They are their unambiguously insurmountable opponents. Seiya won't be able to defeat somebody who could make Sailor Moon and everyone from her world infinitely weaker by hitting their atoms. Uh, no. Not only would this being be unaffected by this, it wasn't even a delayed effect to them. It's outright nothing. They didn't even regenerate. Illusions? Hadou Gods don't even try to snark at these things. Speed? When somebody can surpass even sextillion times the speed of light and being immeasurably faster than them and immune to all of their Cosmos, you know they're not going to even annoy these people. Demonbane is not something they can beat, since you should know that informal and internet terms and slang like "hax" would be insulting to these particular beings.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am just like others here annoyed with the recent influx of saint seiya vs dbs threads and i understand where you are coming from dekoshu you want meaningful and thoughtout battles between characters and the one sentences like seiya because of hax probably irritates you but this is just the reality there isn't anything to argue about it which you agree with which is why you made this thread because goku will never beat seiya, however you seem to have maybe acquire a bit of distaste for saint seiya (not sure if that is true just guessing) which is understandable because they basically make it hard for any meaningful vs battle to take place because they are so broken though they can be beaten by higher tiered characters which is true for any character unless they are questionable omnipotent (but even then there is no way to know which tier 0 is stronger than the other). With saint seiya it is just against those in their tier that they usually are able to beat because of hax and speed but i am sure if we look hard enough we could make some decent battles with saint seiya characters that won't be the usually one liners of hax and speed but not many are willing to do that which is why we end of with this mess with the dbs vs saint seiya threads. In conclusion people need to stop being lazy by doing the same old matches and actually try to make interesting matches.

 

[Dekoshu]

No. I don't want just interesting, fun, and great matches, but I also want to see matches where no, Seiya found out somebody and not because of the opening poster or rules, literally equalized their speeds through their pure ability, and could not blitz this enemy. No, they disabled their all of their Cloth of all types through their "hax" or cannot be overpowered easily by any illusions or vacuum of space. No, the enemy who did these is not just resistant to be atomized, but instead outright immune to this and even got stronger from it. No, they can absorb Cosmos energy too. No, they somehow make resurrection very risky, like make them weaker than usual if they fight against them, so if Seiya and ther others die against this foe, they'll be zombies completely under their control, with no convenient way of turning it against them.

A battle where for once, they can't pull anything out of the blue and it's completely unrestricted. The opening poster didn't equalize their speed, Pegasus Seiya's enemy did. No, they weren't bloodlusted because of the poster, the enemy did. No, the enemy let themselves and Seiya be in character.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No. I don't want just interesting, fun, and great matches, but I want to see matches where no, Seiya found out somebody and not because of the opening poster or rules, literally equalized their speeds through their pure ability, and could not blitz this enemy. No, they disabled their all of their Cloth of all types.

So you basically want a "fair" match where the opponent can actually stand up on equal ground with saint seiya characters without the rules of the battle but with their own ability is what i am getting? You are probably asking for the impossible i cant think of any characters in the same tier of saint seiya that are in the sextillion (was it that number?) of times ftl. Their speed basically makes it so unless speed is equalized or the other party has infinite speed or above then the saint seiya characters will usually speed blitz. And they have hax on top of it with the atomization hax being basic when there are far more broken stuff. Yea i can't see a match up with a saint seiya character that is "even" unless the rules even things out, either saint seiya stomps or the other stomps because of ridiculous hax, when it get to these levels of power its either stomp or get stomp.

 

[Dekoshu]

No. I don't want just interesting, fun, and great matches, but I want to see matches where no, Seiya found out somebody and not because of the opening poster or rules, literally equalized their speeds through their pure ability, and could not blitz this enemy. No, they disabled their all of their Cloth of all types.

So you basically want a "fair" match where the opponent can actually stand up on equal ground with saint seiya characters without the rules of the battle but with their own ability is what i am getting? You are probably asking for the impossible i cant think of any characters in the same tier of saint seiya that are in the sextillion (was it that number?) of times ftl. Their speed basically makes it so unless speed is equalized or the other party has infinite speed or above then the saint seiya characters will usually speed blitz. And they have hax on top of it with the atomization hax being basic when there are far more broken stuff. Yea i can;t see a match up with a saint seiya character that is "even" unless the rules even things out, either saint seiya stomps or the other stomps because of ridiculous hax, when it get to these levels of power its either stomp or get stomp.

Exactly, Celestial Pegasus. For once, a battle where an opponent could actually equalize themselves with their other opponent with Saint Seiya, for once, a battle where there is no "plot induced stupidity" out-of-universe or in-universe by a beyond dimensional being. There is no "character induced stupidity", there are no "outliers", there are in places they can literally take themselves to. They can choose if they want to apply induced and weaponized bloodlust. This is where they can do other things than just fight. Like food contests, and other competitions. Being overpowering is more than just being great at fighting.

 

[Dekoshu]

Oh and people. Don't even think about and attempt having Saint Seiya versus Dragon Ball Super in other things. Why would the Saints and all others be strong in fighting, but weak in eating and other mundane things? That's embarassing.

For example, eating contests. Uh no. What made people think the Saints would lose to them in eating. Playing video games? Oh please. Throwing things contests? That's literally asking too much. Running? Uh, no. People need to be able to do things faster than light speeds in and out of combat. Cosmos and other attributes will own them in these situations as well so Goku won't be losing in fighting, but outside of it as well. In other words people, don't assume the Saints are only great at fighting. Cook the best food. No. Make the best garden. No. Overspecialization isn't just happening in battle, but in other things.

 

[Andykhang]

Seriously, you mean you want a tier 1 and above, like Azathoth, Undoubtively First, the creator, Lambdadelta,etc. to finally beat these guys?

Well, Touhou could at least beat the lower tier of these guys... I don't want to put "NLF" FN mode Reimu into the mix, though you could said all these hax those guys are doing is a "Force".

 

[Dekoshu]

I am also talking about ones that aren't even these beings. I recall the particular Digimon have shown tohave seriously overpowered several opponents in the past. It's not just the tier. We're talking about beings who make any version of Mario, Sailor Moon, and several popular others with a very nononsense manner. In a realistic battle, where the battle is not fair simply because of the rules, but because they made them. Some of these beings can literally make these rules by themselves.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't know why Mario is in this category. He's reasonably beatable.

 

[Andykhang]

^Then you need a tier 2, top. Or someone with infinity speed, which i remember very little example of. (and yeah, like you said earlier).

And causality and probability manipulation... in what range do we need here? Or could be that we only need to bring permadeath or infideath to these guy?

 

[Dekoshu]

Did people see that Saint Seiya isn't going to just beat Universe 7 and Universe 6 in not just fighting? I even mentioned eating food.

 

[Dekoshu]

I don't know why Mario is in this category. He's reasonably beatable.

He's there for a reason, beyond personal reasons. I am objectively talking about beings, I am not just talking tiers, so let's not make this a one-track topic, but we're talking about beings who cannot be plausibly equal to, with or without rules, that means beings who you can't just attempt to make fair to without bringing out the logic, beings who surpass the concept of attempting to weakening or equalizing them, beings whose abilities take over the battle rules entirely, etc.

 

[Andykhang]

^Wait, you mean being of certain infinity? And again, what range of causality or probability manipulation did you need?

 

[Dekoshu]

Unlike other people, I don't want just "fair" or "interesting" battles, but battles that have a lot of things to consider and cannot be brushed off so easily that people's opinions are completely invalid to and have no position to. We're talking about beings and powers that you cannot make equal to, speed that it's useless to equal to, people's personality that are immune to being bloodlusted, since they are beyond the concepts of that.

Also, the range of causuality and probability manipulation should be multiversal range completely or complex multiversal range. Clearly infinite speed and transcendent power not simply match but completely and realisticallty, as well as undeniably defeat all of Seiya, regardless of equalization, since "hax" cannot be realistically equalized, and there's no one in the tier. This is where people say "Atomization? Bah! I could do better!", "Sextillion times faster than the speed of light? I'm not going to make a scene here.", "Resurrection? You do know I am a multiversal necromancer, right?", "Illusions that kill people? I can see nothing", "Try grasping twelve-dimensional power after seeing it once, bur you can't grasp the true form of it."

 

[Andykhang]

^5 to 6-dimension huh? Got it. That would lead to...tier 1.

Power that cannot make equal to... I can only think of Fantasy Nature's potential, otherwise is high-tier Reality Warping or straight-up make thing never existed like All Fiction. You need Infinity up to be useless to compare. And you're practically tier 0 to become beyond concept... Tall order here.

About Atomic damage though, guess you need an energy being for that, or for the opponent to never touch them in the first place, like space-time manipulation, emotion manipulation to discourage them, or true intangiable, or at least electromagnetic manipulation on atomic scale.

 

[Dekoshu]

^5 to 6-dimension huh? Got it. That would lead to...tier 1.
Power that cannot make equal to... I can only think of Fantasy Nature's potential, otherwise is high-tier Reality Warping or straight-up make thing never existed like All Fiction. You need Infinity up to be useless to compare. And you're practically tier 0 to become beyond concept... Tall order here.

About Atomic damage though, guess you need an energy being for that, or for the opponent to never touch them in the first place, like space-time manipulation, emotion manipulation to discourage them, or true intangiable, or at least electromagnetic manipulation on atomic scale.

That's another valid answer here like the others. Subatomic damage exists, though.

 

[Dekoshu]

You know, it's like giving a transcendent deity an invitiation to attend to fights to see if the hedonistic and irrational audience wants to see a fight, only to realize they wasted this being's time, and so made sure that not only the audiences' minds were erased, but their personalities are completely altered in all timelines to make them see the bigger picture and see the greater complexities of fights than just fair, interesting, and great battles, but realistically understand and be open minded and humbly accept the fact that you cannot do everything to equal these beings to even the strongest from Seiya's reality/multiverse.

"I warned you. I warned you that this would happen. But now, I won't just teach you a lesson, I will irreversibly change your personalities to see you can't make everyone equal and you cannot irrationally deny it however you want without being paralyzed and unable to infinitely respond to things."

 

[Andykhang]

Exist? Like in Saint Seiya? Then it's practically gone straight into law manipulation to fundamental force of the universe... which make it a basic requirement for reality warping. Or again, someone that could ignore that law itself, like Fantasy Nature or just basically any other Physical Law Immunity holder.

 

[Dekoshu]

You're saying Law Manipulation? As in, completely ignore all how Pegasus Seiya and all others from where Seiya resides (the actual character/individual) on how their powers work. As in, laws of physics?

 

[Andykhang]

Guess so? Though if you said that, it gone straight into Logic Manipulation or Metapotence.

 

[Dekoshu]

Because it helps. Why is that valid? Because people have to fully, not just partially understand, that need to stop pitting Saiyans and others from the Saiyans' universe against Saint Seiya or the Saints' world where beings who not only win at fights, but in other things. For all we know, the Saints could be protecting Athena by eating faster and burning more calories than even Goku himself. Not even a staring contest would work. If they are permitted to do that, then you know there's more to VS Threads than just fighting. Which is quite clear.