Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 3 is Real

[Zabazab]

Pridebaru vs Al

Probably Al, his prior knowledge is too good.

 

[VortechsTG]

Hey, so apparently Julius' magic is not actually stated to move at the speed of light. That is a mistranslation. The actual jp is 極光の速度, which is roughly "speed of an aurora". Although the fact that only someone like Reinhard can dodge it implies it actually is still very fast so I think this mainly just changes justifications. However, it is also stated that it doesn't quite reach the speed of light.

"放たれた極光の速度は、光には届くまいが決して遅くなどない" - arc 5 chapter 53

Very rough tl:
"The speed of the emitted aurora may not reach that of light, but it is by no means slow."

 

[Zabazab]

Hey, so apparently Julius' magic is not actually stated to move at the speed of light. That is a mistranslation.

Wouldn't be shocked with Yenpress. This is referring to the Ex 4 statement, yes?

"放たれた極光の速度は、光には届くまいが決して遅くなどない" - arc 5 chapter 53

FanTL got this wrong then:

The speed of the bright light would never be late enough to not reach its opponent. In order to avoid this approaching arrow, one would need a physical ability comparable to that of Reinhard or—— –Arc 5, Chapter 53 (Web Novel Volume 19 Compilation)

Is this quote unchanged in Volume 20?

 

[VortechsTG]

Wouldn't be shocked with Yenpress. This is referring to the Ex 4 statement, yes?

Yes, but it is mistranslated as light instead of aurora in both arc 5 and ex 4.

Is this quote unchanged in Volume 20?

It seems to be roughly the same in the Yenpress version.

 

[Zabazab]

Yes

Thank you! Mistranslations making indexing more difficult than necessary is bothersome. It's hard enough with Tappei's own view on things like speed.

There's plenty of things I should check raws on. Unfortunately some raws are totally out of my reach (Shop Specials, for the most part). Witch's Evaluation Meeting for example has some lines that could be particularly interesting, referring to Od Lagna's "rules" and "general notions".

 

[Zabazab]

It seems to be roughly the same in the Yenpress version.

Checked the raws.

Ex 4– It is indeed the kanji aurora, not light, that was used. As in "could not escape the speed of the aurora".

Volume 20– The statement that Al Clauzeria was below the speed of light seems to have been removed (not that it matters if it was never stated to be SoL):

嘲るように言って、『暴食』──ロイ・アルファルドが後ろへ倒れ、顔面スレスレで極光を回避、ユリウスの判断を侮(ぶ)蔑(べつ)する。虹の速度は矢に迫るほどで、易(やす)々(やす)と躱せる速度でもなかった。避けるにはラインハルト並みの身体能力か、あるいは──、

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Checked the raws.

Ex 4– It is indeed the kanji aurora, not light, that was used. As in "could not escape the speed of the aurora".

Volume 20– The statement that Al Clauzeria was below the speed of light seems to have been removed (not that it matters if it was never stated to be SoL):

so the only thing supporting FTL now is Jiwald?

 

[VortechsTG]

so the only thing supporting FTL now is Jiwald?

Well there's Balleroy's bullets. I think the fact that characters at this level are considered to be far beyond lightning speed makes it pretty reasonable to assume that these attacks that are made of light and only they can react to are light speed. Though frankly the speed scaling here is still wanked in a lot of cases.

 

[Zabazab]

I think constructs of light wouldn't qualify for light-speed unless stated to be SoL, given rules regarding the speed of light on the wiki.

The lightning meta Tappei seems to be pushing with 9/14 is very funny honestly. Look at these quotes about nerfed Reinhard & the speed of lightning next to eachother:

Spoiler: Quotes

The temperature gradient between Fire and Water Magic was used to create thunderclouds, and by applying Wind and Earth Magic, he caused the Dragon Sword to be imbued with an electric charge. Following the principle that formed the basis for lightning rods, inescapable bolts of lightning struck Reinhard.

To escape the sheer speed of lightning, not even Reinhard was capable of such. The bolts of lightning, reminiscent of the speed of Cecilus’s swordsmanship that transcended human limits, a sight that had become all too familiar to him in the Empire, struck Reinhard chaotically.

Reinhard completely neutralized this with his Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, and although the lightning could not seize Reinhard, it did take hold of the Dragon Sword, causing the sword to become highly magnetized. –Arc 9, Chapter 14
————
With the dao Aldebaran had created using Earth Magic, he had scraped off the scales of the Dragon―― these became bullets that were fired at lightning speed and struck the oxygen-deprived Reinhard.

No matter how fast Reinhard was, he could not outrun lightning. That was a fact that Aldebaran had already learned from his previous battles. –Arc 9, Chapter 14

“…!” That single exchange was enough to convey Reinhard’s unparalleled strength. Eyes shining, Cecilus disappeared again. He went as fast as his namesake, then even faster. Multiple images of the man in the blue kimono began to appear until it seemed as though Reinhard was against an army of a hundred. It was beyond anything Julius’s defensive reflexes might have been able to respond to. This surely must have been Cecilus’ last resort.

But if Cecilus at his greatest seemed superhuman, then so did Reinhard. The Sword Saint didn’t give an inch of ground, parrying the encroaching attacks with nothing but the hiltless blade of his opponent’s own broken weapon. Reinhard deflected, swept away, and guarded against every strike. With only half a sword, one he had to hold with the tips of his fingers to not cut himself, Reinhard was defending against what was essentially an enchanted sword. Such power was truly something from the realm of nightmares. And if that was how Julius saw it, then how much more did the enemy, the Divine General, think of it? –Ex Volume 4, Diplomacy by Bloodshed

 

[VortechsTG]

I think constructs of light wouldn't qualify for light-speed unless stated to be SoL, given rules regarding the speed of light on the wiki.

This is true. Alone they wouldn't be proof. I think they work fine as supporting evidence to Jiwald though. It's another light based attacks that is faster than everything else.

The lightning meta Tappei seems to be pushing with 9/14 is very funny honestly. Look at these quotes about nerfed Reinhard & the speed of lightning next to eachother:

This feels like it could be a Roswaal Olbart type of situation where the only way it remotely makes sense is by assuming it is strictly talking about while nerfed like he currently is. This is such utter bullshit if Tappei wants us to believe that Cecilus is actually lightning speed let alone well beyond that. "It is impossible for Reinhard to avoid Cecilus' attacks" EXPLODE, TAPPEI, EXPLODE!

 

[Zabazab]

This is such utter bullshit if Tappei wants us to believe that Cecilus is actually lightning speed let alone well beyond that. "It is impossible for Reinhard to avoid Cecilus' attacks" EXPLODE, TAPPEI, EXPLODE!

"The bolt of lightning (FROM A CLOUD TWO THOUSAND METRES AWAY) struck with speed akin to Cecilus' Segmunt's swordsmanship, it was IMPOSSIBLE for Reinhard to evade."

I am like extremely confident that Reinhard can evade an attack from Cecilus while the latter is kilometres away, given he can parry his attacks with <10m between them. This is either the effects of the Miasma nerf through EMCC, PIS, or both.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

100% agree, the bolt of lightning from the cloud feat doesn't make any sense

Spoiler: can't dodge bolts of lightning coming from the clouds

The temperature gradient between Fire and Water Magic was used to create thunderclouds, and by applying Wind and Earth Magic, he caused the Dragon Sword to be imbued with an electric charge. Following the principle that formed the basis for lightning rods, inescapable bolts of lightning struck Reinhard.

To escape the sheer speed of lightning, not even Reinhard was capable of such. The bolts of lightning, reminiscent of the speed of Cecilus’s swordsmanship that transcended human limits, a sight that had become all too familiar to him in the Empire, struck Reinhard chaotically.

Reinhard completely neutralized this with his Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, and although the lightning could not seize Reinhard, it did take hold of the Dragon Sword, causing the sword to become highly magnetized.

Spoiler: Magia railgun is lightning speed

Aldebaran: [――Magia Railgun.]

A magically-powered railgun, loaded with bullets that were neither fire, ice, nor lead.

With the dao Aldebaran had created using Earth Magic, he had scraped off the scales of the Dragon―― these became bullets that were fired at lightning speed and struck the oxygen-deprived Reinhard.

No matter how fast Reinhard was, he could not outrun lightning.

Spoiler: Reinhard can react to Magia Railgun from a far shorter range

The Divine Protection of First Sight and the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion were activated simultaneously. Reinhard’s instinctive reaction to the attack he was seeing for the first time was to notice that the railgun’s firing line wavered slightly.

Because of that, Reinhard leaned forward slightly, and the railgun, which had only just missed its target, narrowly passed him and gouged out a semicircle in the Sand Sea.

However――,

Reinhard: [――Guh.]

There was a burst of blood that sprayed out over the Sand Sea, and a cry of pain escaped Reinhard’s throat.

The railgun had not been a direct hit. It had only grazed him. But as long as the attack was deadly, even Reinhard would not come out unscathed from only a glancing blow.

Spoiler: Reinhard can react to Magia Railgun from a far shorter range

The second Magia Railgun fired, and the scale pierced the dead center of Reinhard.

An inescapable blast wave wreaked havoc on the Sand Sea, and Reinhard disappeared. ――No, he did not disappear. He was swept away with the scale, right in the line of fire of the railgun.

Even Reinhard could not withstand the power and speed of a direct hit.

Provided he did take the blow directly, that was.

Aldebaran: [――The Divine Protection of Second Coming.]

With his blood-spurting right arm limp at his side, Reinhard gripped the Dragon Sword with his left hand, and he had once again blocked the railgun blast that had threatened to pierce the center of his body with the sheath.

I think it's fairly consistent that while Reinhard isn't faster than these so called "lightning speed" attacks, he most definitely can react to them at close range, so the cloud feat should be considered an outlier

Hell, we see Reinhard can react to a surprise attack from Cecilus in wrath if

Spoiler: WRATH IF

With just one swing, a weapon crafted by a master swordsmith who’d left his name upon the world had turned to dust like it was nothing. In compensation, the man who had stacked acts of barbarity upon acts of barbarity and his gang both would be caught in a single blow――

???: “――You’re not a cute opponent at all, you know that, right?

Reinhard: “――――”

Like a clap of thunder breaking through the smoke, a terrific sword strike closed in on Reinhard.

And so, with an impact like thunder indeed ringing out, the body of the one labelled the Sword was thrown back. However, his body had not been slashed―― The scabbard of his beloved sword had been used to blocked it.

Not with hands, but by twisting his body to receive the slashing strike with the sheath, with movement akin to acrobatics, the young man, Reinhard, then fired a strike of his own―― At that Cecilus, let out a whistle.