Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 3 is Real

[Zabazab]

Pridebaru vs Al

Probably Al, his prior knowledge is too good.

 

[VortechsTG]

Hey, so apparently Julius' magic is not actually stated to move at the speed of light. That is a mistranslation. The actual jp is 極光の速度, which is roughly "speed of an aurora". Although the fact that only someone like Reinhard can dodge it implies it actually is still very fast so I think this mainly just changes justifications. However, it is also stated that it doesn't quite reach the speed of light.

"放たれた極光の速度は、光には届くまいが決して遅くなどない" - arc 5 chapter 53

Very rough tl:
"The speed of the emitted aurora may not reach that of light, but it is by no means slow."

 

[Zabazab]

Hey, so apparently Julius' magic is not actually stated to move at the speed of light. That is a mistranslation.

Wouldn't be shocked with Yenpress. This is referring to the Ex 4 statement, yes?

"放たれた極光の速度は、光には届くまいが決して遅くなどない" - arc 5 chapter 53

FanTL got this wrong then:

The speed of the bright light would never be late enough to not reach its opponent. In order to avoid this approaching arrow, one would need a physical ability comparable to that of Reinhard or—— –Arc 5, Chapter 53 (Web Novel Volume 19 Compilation)

Is this quote unchanged in Volume 20?

 

[VortechsTG]

Wouldn't be shocked with Yenpress. This is referring to the Ex 4 statement, yes?

Yes, but it is mistranslated as light instead of aurora in both arc 5 and ex 4.

Is this quote unchanged in Volume 20?

It seems to be roughly the same in the Yenpress version.

 

[Zabazab]

Yes

Thank you! Mistranslations making indexing more difficult than necessary is bothersome. It's hard enough with Tappei's own view on things like speed.

There's plenty of things I should check raws on. Unfortunately some raws are totally out of my reach (Shop Specials, for the most part). Witch's Evaluation Meeting for example has some lines that could be particularly interesting, referring to Od Lagna's "rules" and "general notions".

 

[Zabazab]

It seems to be roughly the same in the Yenpress version.

Checked the raws.

Ex 4– It is indeed the kanji aurora, not light, that was used. As in "could not escape the speed of the aurora".

Volume 20– The statement that Al Clauzeria was below the speed of light seems to have been removed (not that it matters if it was never stated to be SoL):

嘲るように言って、『暴食』──ロイ・アルファルドが後ろへ倒れ、顔面スレスレで極光を回避、ユリウスの判断を侮(ぶ)蔑(べつ)する。虹の速度は矢に迫るほどで、易(やす)々(やす)と躱せる速度でもなかった。避けるにはラインハルト並みの身体能力か、あるいは──、

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Checked the raws.

Ex 4– It is indeed the kanji aurora, not light, that was used. As in "could not escape the speed of the aurora".

Volume 20– The statement that Al Clauzeria was below the speed of light seems to have been removed (not that it matters if it was never stated to be SoL):

so the only thing supporting FTL now is Jiwald?

 

[VortechsTG]

so the only thing supporting FTL now is Jiwald?

Well there's Balleroy's bullets. I think the fact that characters at this level are considered to be far beyond lightning speed makes it pretty reasonable to assume that these attacks that are made of light and only they can react to are light speed. Though frankly the speed scaling here is still wanked in a lot of cases.

 

[Zabazab]

I think constructs of light wouldn't qualify for light-speed unless stated to be SoL, given rules regarding the speed of light on the wiki.

The lightning meta Tappei seems to be pushing with 9/14 is very funny honestly. Look at these quotes about nerfed Reinhard & the speed of lightning next to eachother:

Spoiler: Quotes

The temperature gradient between Fire and Water Magic was used to create thunderclouds, and by applying Wind and Earth Magic, he caused the Dragon Sword to be imbued with an electric charge. Following the principle that formed the basis for lightning rods, inescapable bolts of lightning struck Reinhard.

To escape the sheer speed of lightning, not even Reinhard was capable of such. The bolts of lightning, reminiscent of the speed of Cecilus’s swordsmanship that transcended human limits, a sight that had become all too familiar to him in the Empire, struck Reinhard chaotically.

Reinhard completely neutralized this with his Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, and although the lightning could not seize Reinhard, it did take hold of the Dragon Sword, causing the sword to become highly magnetized. –Arc 9, Chapter 14
————
With the dao Aldebaran had created using Earth Magic, he had scraped off the scales of the Dragon―― these became bullets that were fired at lightning speed and struck the oxygen-deprived Reinhard.

No matter how fast Reinhard was, he could not outrun lightning. That was a fact that Aldebaran had already learned from his previous battles. –Arc 9, Chapter 14

“…!” That single exchange was enough to convey Reinhard’s unparalleled strength. Eyes shining, Cecilus disappeared again. He went as fast as his namesake, then even faster. Multiple images of the man in the blue kimono began to appear until it seemed as though Reinhard was against an army of a hundred. It was beyond anything Julius’s defensive reflexes might have been able to respond to. This surely must have been Cecilus’ last resort.

But if Cecilus at his greatest seemed superhuman, then so did Reinhard. The Sword Saint didn’t give an inch of ground, parrying the encroaching attacks with nothing but the hiltless blade of his opponent’s own broken weapon. Reinhard deflected, swept away, and guarded against every strike. With only half a sword, one he had to hold with the tips of his fingers to not cut himself, Reinhard was defending against what was essentially an enchanted sword. Such power was truly something from the realm of nightmares. And if that was how Julius saw it, then how much more did the enemy, the Divine General, think of it? –Ex Volume 4, Diplomacy by Bloodshed

 

[VortechsTG]

I think constructs of light wouldn't qualify for light-speed unless stated to be SoL, given rules regarding the speed of light on the wiki.

This is true. Alone they wouldn't be proof. I think they work fine as supporting evidence to Jiwald though. It's another light based attacks that is faster than everything else.

The lightning meta Tappei seems to be pushing with 9/14 is very funny honestly. Look at these quotes about nerfed Reinhard & the speed of lightning next to eachother:

This feels like it could be a Roswaal Olbart type of situation where the only way it remotely makes sense is by assuming it is strictly talking about while nerfed like he currently is. This is such utter bullshit if Tappei wants us to believe that Cecilus is actually lightning speed let alone well beyond that. "It is impossible for Reinhard to avoid Cecilus' attacks" EXPLODE, TAPPEI, EXPLODE!

 

[Zabazab]

This is such utter bullshit if Tappei wants us to believe that Cecilus is actually lightning speed let alone well beyond that. "It is impossible for Reinhard to avoid Cecilus' attacks" EXPLODE, TAPPEI, EXPLODE!

"The bolt of lightning (FROM A CLOUD TWO THOUSAND METRES AWAY) struck with speed akin to Cecilus' Segmunt's swordsmanship, it was IMPOSSIBLE for Reinhard to evade."

I am like extremely confident that Reinhard can evade an attack from Cecilus while the latter is kilometres away, given he can parry his attacks with <10m between them. This is either the effects of the Miasma nerf through EMCC, PIS, or both.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

100% agree, the bolt of lightning from the cloud feat doesn't make any sense

Spoiler: can't dodge bolts of lightning coming from the clouds

The temperature gradient between Fire and Water Magic was used to create thunderclouds, and by applying Wind and Earth Magic, he caused the Dragon Sword to be imbued with an electric charge. Following the principle that formed the basis for lightning rods, inescapable bolts of lightning struck Reinhard.

To escape the sheer speed of lightning, not even Reinhard was capable of such. The bolts of lightning, reminiscent of the speed of Cecilus’s swordsmanship that transcended human limits, a sight that had become all too familiar to him in the Empire, struck Reinhard chaotically.

Reinhard completely neutralized this with his Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, and although the lightning could not seize Reinhard, it did take hold of the Dragon Sword, causing the sword to become highly magnetized.

Spoiler: Magia railgun is lightning speed

Aldebaran: [――Magia Railgun.]

A magically-powered railgun, loaded with bullets that were neither fire, ice, nor lead.

With the dao Aldebaran had created using Earth Magic, he had scraped off the scales of the Dragon―― these became bullets that were fired at lightning speed and struck the oxygen-deprived Reinhard.

No matter how fast Reinhard was, he could not outrun lightning.

Spoiler: Reinhard can react to Magia Railgun from a far shorter range

The Divine Protection of First Sight and the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion were activated simultaneously. Reinhard’s instinctive reaction to the attack he was seeing for the first time was to notice that the railgun’s firing line wavered slightly.

Because of that, Reinhard leaned forward slightly, and the railgun, which had only just missed its target, narrowly passed him and gouged out a semicircle in the Sand Sea.

However――,

Reinhard: [――Guh.]

There was a burst of blood that sprayed out over the Sand Sea, and a cry of pain escaped Reinhard’s throat.

The railgun had not been a direct hit. It had only grazed him. But as long as the attack was deadly, even Reinhard would not come out unscathed from only a glancing blow.

Spoiler: Reinhard can react to Magia Railgun from a far shorter range

The second Magia Railgun fired, and the scale pierced the dead center of Reinhard.

An inescapable blast wave wreaked havoc on the Sand Sea, and Reinhard disappeared. ――No, he did not disappear. He was swept away with the scale, right in the line of fire of the railgun.

Even Reinhard could not withstand the power and speed of a direct hit.

Provided he did take the blow directly, that was.

Aldebaran: [――The Divine Protection of Second Coming.]

With his blood-spurting right arm limp at his side, Reinhard gripped the Dragon Sword with his left hand, and he had once again blocked the railgun blast that had threatened to pierce the center of his body with the sheath.

I think it's fairly consistent that while Reinhard isn't faster than these so called "lightning speed" attacks, he most definitely can react to them at close range, so the cloud feat should be considered an outlier

Hell, we see Reinhard can react to a surprise attack from Cecilus in wrath if

Spoiler: WRATH IF

With just one swing, a weapon crafted by a master swordsmith who’d left his name upon the world had turned to dust like it was nothing. In compensation, the man who had stacked acts of barbarity upon acts of barbarity and his gang both would be caught in a single blow――

???: “――You’re not a cute opponent at all, you know that, right?

Reinhard: “――――”

Like a clap of thunder breaking through the smoke, a terrific sword strike closed in on Reinhard.

And so, with an impact like thunder indeed ringing out, the body of the one labelled the Sword was thrown back. However, his body had not been slashed―― The scabbard of his beloved sword had been used to blocked it.

Not with hands, but by twisting his body to receive the slashing strike with the sheath, with movement akin to acrobatics, the young man, Reinhard, then fired a strike of his own―― At that Cecilus, let out a whistle.

 

[Zabazab]

Arc 9 Chapter 15 is out. This arc is absolutely insane.

 

[Trxyway]

Tappei has done it again, every chapter is better than the last

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wow, this is some crazy stuff.

I like how this all played out, Reinhard has been used masterfully, despite being the immovable force in ReZero.

Even his emotional weaknesses seemingly wouldn't have been enough to stop him from being the hero.

 

[Zabazab]

The hero saves the world, he cannot put his loved ones above it. Only a hero like that can be the "Sword Saint".

Also, extremely funny "Big Bang" (shockwave that can be felt for ~kms). Will probably be kino prose when translated though.

――瞬間、世界から音と色と光と熱と、あるべきものが根こそぎ取り上げられる錯覚をアルデバランは味わった。
『剣聖』の白い一撃と、『魔女』の黒い破壊とが衝突し、白でも黒でもない色が生じる。
それは直前の、『剣聖』と『神龍』の戦いのときに生じた星の光、稲妻の弾丸、夜を灰燼に帰す炎、そうした天変地異的ビッグバンに匹敵するものだった。
そしてそのビッグバンは、その一度きりで終わらずに続く、続く、続く。
何度も、何度も、幾度も、幾度も、終わりなく、終わることなく、終わりを知らず、熱が生まれ、光が生まれ、色が生まれ、音が生まれ、世界を生まれ変わらせるように、これまでとこれからの世界を切り分けるように、ぶつかり合う。
――それは終わらぬモノと滅びぬモノとの、決着のつかない戦いだった。 –Arc 9, Chapter 15

 

[Pepsiman25th]

the heck is happening in chap 15

 

[Zabazab]

the heck is happening in chap 15

Essentially:

1. Al attacked the parts that make Reinhard: His invincible body, his unmatched technique, and his heart of the hero. However he still couldn't win, as Reinhard still defeated the Als and the threat against his father wasn't enough to stop the Hero from destroying a threat to the world. But this was fine, this was all just meant to buy time.
2. Al had planted one of Subaru's Books of the Dead as a trap card in the tower, baiting one of the girls to read it. Petra noticed the Book in Subaru's bag, and chose to look inside it— thereby learning of the secret of Return by Death and prompting the Witch of Envy to break out of her Shrine (just like what happened in Arc 6 when Rui learned of RbD).
3. Reinhard is now forced to fight the Witch while both are weakened, as she will destroy the world otherwise. Al has essentially used the unending battle that is Reinhard vs Satella to get Reinhard out of the way, akin to forcing Atlus to hold the sky. Now Natsuki Subaru & his Partner Spirit, and the undefeatable Sword Saint, are out of Al's way.

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Essentially:

1. Al attacked the parts that make Reinhard: His invincible body, his unmatched technique, and his heart of the hero. However he still couldn't win, as Reinhard still defeated the Als and the threat against his father wasn't enough to stop the Hero from destroying a threat to the world. But this was fine, this was all just meant to buy time.
2. Al had planted one of Subaru's Books of the Dead as a trap card in the tower, baiting one of the girls to read it. Petra noticed the Book in Subaru's bag, and chose to look inside it— thereby learning of the secret of Return by Death and prompting the Witch of Envy to break out of her Shrine (just like what happened in Arc 6 when Rui learned of RbD).
3. Reinhard is now forced to fight the Witch while both are weakened, as she will destroy the world otherwise. Al has essentially used the unending battle that is Reinhard vs Satella to get Reinhard out of the way, akin to forcing Atlus to hold the sky. Now Natsuki Subaru & his Partner Spirit, and the undefeatable Sword Saint, are out of Al's way.

I see.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Cecilus and Halibel better prepare because at this point, they're the only ones left who can fight Al.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Seen some fraud allegations against Reinhard, idk if people were being serious, ignoring the speed debacle, when it comes to the actual world of Re Zero, Reinhard really is that guy.

Jujitsu kaisen has infected everything, though kind of unavoidable since Gojo and Reinhard have the same voice actor lol.

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Seen some fraud allegations against Reinhard, idk if people were being serious, ignoring the speed debacle, when it comes to the actual world of Re Zero, Reinhard really is that guy.

Jujitsu kaisen has infected everything, though kind of unavoidable since Gojo and Reinhard have the same voice actor lol.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Seen some fraud allegations against Reinhard, idk if people were being serious, ignoring the speed debacle, when it comes to the actual world of Re Zero, Reinhard really is that guy.

Jujitsu kaisen has infected everything, though kind of unavoidable since Gojo and Reinhard have the same voice actor lol.

These past 2 chapters have truly shown us that Reinhard is the strongest and no one can beat him.

It took 130K+ tries to even wound him (in the one place where he'd be at his weakest) and then you force him to fight the Satan of the verse.

 

[Zabazab]

Fraud allegations (winning every fight even under the worst conditions).

 

[Epiccheev]

Imagine you start reading one of Subaru's book of the dead and after you read about Return by death the next page is a big Satella Pop-up with a "Boo" speech balloon

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The Leg merchant has striken us again!
So apparently his fight with the witch has caused big bangs (clearly Low 2C). His arms are non functional which means this is from JUST his kicks.

Who have we seen tank his kicks? That's right! Elsa Granhiert!

Low 2C Elsa confirmed

 

[Huesito88]

I want confirmation of Planck temperature from that mini big bang because it'd be funny

 

[Gigi_4_life]

New chapter peak

 

[Zabazab]

I've always thought Petra was an alright character, but I really like the direction she's being taken this arc.

I think the second Teaparty is a fantastic loop for Petra to witness, it gives her a much deeper understanding of Return by Death than any others. I feel really bad for her still.

Yae reappearing is great, I really thought it'd be a waste to have her just in PPZ. Heinkel being a semi-willing participant was very unexpected, but very interesting. I don't know what to think of VolcanicAl hitting him without going easy on him and Heinkel being ok, though...

 

[VortechsTG]

Snip

Spoiler

I've been saying Heinkel is gonna take the sword from Reinhard the same way Wilhelm did for Theresia.

 

[Zabazab]

It's a father's duty to take responsibility for his son, after all.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I don't know what to think of VolcanicAl hitting him without going easy on him and Heinkel being ok, though...

I think that's the most funniest part lol, the secret of Heinkel endurance must be pretty Interessing.

 

[Huesito88]

I think that's the most funniest part lol, the secret of Heinkel endurance must be pretty Interessing.

Being Drunk son, it hardness in response to Physical Trauma

 

[MrTayman616]

Hey, so apparently Julius' magic is not actually stated to move at the speed of light. That is a mistranslation. The actual jp is 極光の速度, which is roughly "speed of an aurora". Although the fact that only someone like Reinhard can dodge it implies it actually is still very fast so I think this mainly just changes justifications. However, it is also stated that it doesn't quite reach the speed of light.

"The speed of the emitted aurora may not reach that of light, but it is by no means slow." - arc 5 chapter 53

Very rough tl:
"The speed of the emitted aurora may not reach that of light, but it is by no means slow."

Was it my translation? Lmao i forgot i started a FTL downgrade thread

 

[MrTayman616]

100% agree, the bolt of lightning from the cloud feat doesn't make any sense







I think it's fairly consistent that while Reinhard isn't faster than these so called "lightning speed" attacks, he most definitely can react to them at close range, so the cloud feat should be considered an outlier

Hell, we see Reinhard can react to a surprise attack from Cecilus in wrath if

The lightning came from a real cloud and wasn't really an attack, Al says it as well when he talks about how Reinhard's divine protections work and what kind of thing they can protect him against. The lightning from a cloud is natural. Unlike the other cases like magia railgun and Cecilus, where his divine protections helps him more.

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

The thunderclouds were created by magic and the electricity coating the Ryūken was magic, which drew the lightning in with the same principles of a lightning rod. And the lightning still couldn't hit Reinhard because of the Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, which makes lightning unable to strike him.

Besides, in Oboreru within Pandemonium where his Divine Protections had their functions hindered, he still blocked an unexpected blow from Cecilus without trouble.

 

[MrTayman616]

The thunderclouds were created by magic and the electricity coating the Ryūken was magic, which drew the lightning in with the same principles of a lightning rod. And the lightning still couldn't hit Reinhard because of the Divine Protection of the Lightning Cloud, which makes lightning unable to strike him.

They were created via methods of physics, he got support from magic but the thing itself is not an attack nor magic. The lightning doesn't hitting him because of a specific divine protection made for that doesn't mean anything, Also same chapter he gets attacked by lightning speed magia railgun, and and it glazed him rather than a full hit, he barely escaped thanks to his divine protections.

Besides, in Oboreru within Pandemonium where his Divine Protections had their functions hindered, he still blocked an unexpected blow from Cecilus without trouble.

I know the talks about some of his divine protections being closed, but i couldn't find it myself, can you show the text pls?

 

[Zabazab]

They were created via methods of physics, he got support from magic but the thing itself is not an attack nor magic. The lightning doesn't hitting him because of a specific divine protection made for that doesn't mean anything, Also same chapter he gets attacked by lightning speed magia railgun, and and it glazed him rather than a full hit, he barely escaped thanks to his divine protections.

Then the comparison between the cloud from 2km away, or the railgun from a few tens of metres away, or Cecilus getting easily defended against by a nerfed Reinhard despite Cecilus moving faster than lightning, cannot be compared.

Besides:

Amidst the successive battles, he became convinced that for Reinhard, who possessed the Excess Mana Circulation Constitution that inordinately absorbed ambient Mana and circulated it throughout his body, the Augria Sand Dunes, which were infested with Miasma, a tainted form of Mana, was the worst possible location imaginable.

In other words, across the entirety of the world, there was no other field where Reinhard would be so weakened, save for the Augria Sand Dunes.

Even when exposed to the supergravity-generating Al Karum, despite being engulfed in a gravitational field so intense that even “Aldebaran” had been crushed under its own weight, Reinhard had overcome it through sheer strength, and yet, in the Augria Sand Dunes, Reinhard’s physical abilities were at their weakest state. –Arc 9, Chapter 14

I know the talks about some of his divine protections being closed, but i couldn't find it myself, can you show the text pls?

Here

From the back, through Reinhard’s abdomen, a sword of ice had pierced. Blood flowed through the blade of frost, his insides being destroyed by the invading cold. The Sword Saint, at the shock he had never felt before, coughed up blood.

Reinhard: “Emilia, sama.”

Emilia: “Ah.”

Reinhard, still unable to understand what had happened, fell onto his knees. Watching that appearance, Emilia blankly stared at her own white fingers.

What she had done, she was realizing that it really had been an unexpected act.

――If this had been a betrayal from Emilia’s true heart, Reinhard could have blocked it.

Were it an attack holding hostility and intent to kill, Reinhard’s intuition would not be evaded. Or, in the case his Divine Protections were working properly, sure enough Reinhard’s defense would not have been pierced either.

But this place was Pandemonium, and Emilia herself could not make up her own mind―― That had, in Reinhard, left a fatal gap. –Re:Zero kara Oboreru Isekai Seikatsu

 

[VortechsTG]

Was it my translation?

No, I was just talking to Bruhseph. I actually saw you're thread not long after bringing this up here. It wasn't exactly clear this is what you were talking about though.

 

[MrTayman616]

Then the comparison between the cloud from 2km away, or the railgun from a few tens of metres away, or Cecilus getting easily defended against by a nerfed Reinhard despite Cecilus moving faster than lightning, cannot be compared.

Uh, No. Reinhard activated both the Divine Protection of First Sight and the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion. One lets him know how to dodge an attack he sees for the first time, the other one changes the attack's trajectory. It's not only Reinhard that dodges it, but the attack itself moves away as well. Considering all of that, it still grazes him.

For Cecilus, I don't understand, this part says his divine protections aren't working properly when he meets Emilia, how do we know it's the same for Cecilus? Or is it where it says "But this place was Pandemonium" so that it affects everywhere in the pandemonium?

No, I was just talking to Bruhseph. I actually saw you're thread not long after bringing this up here. It wasn't exactly clear this is what you were talking about though.

I talked about Julius's magic attack and showed every translation to it.

Spoiler

Web Novel : 　放たれた極光の速度は、光には届くまいが決して遅くなどない。矢に迫る速度の不意打ちを回避するのには、ラインハルトに匹敵する身体能力かあるいは――。

Translation : The speed of the released aurora/lights may not reach the speed of light, but it is by no means slow. To avoid the surprise attack of a speed comparable to that of an arrow, one would need physical abilities on par with Reinhard's, or perhaps...

Light Novel : 『暴食』ーーロイ・アルファルドが後ろへ倒れ、顔面スレスレで極光を回避、ユリウスの判断を侮蔑する。虹の速度は矢に迫るほどで、易々と躱せる速度でもなかった。避けるにはラインハルト並みの身体能力か、あるいは――。

Translation : "'Gluttony'—Roy Alphard fell backward, narrowly avoiding the aurora/light, scornful of Julius's judgment. The speed of the rainbow was comparable to that of an arrow, and it was not a speed that could be easily dodged. To avoid it would require physical abilities on par with Reinhard's, or perhaps—."

English Light Novel : Gluttony, Roy Alphard, was sneering as he bent over backward, justbarely dipping under the deadly beam as he scornfully addressed Julius. The ray of light flew fast and true like a speeding arrow. Dodging it requiredreflexes on par with Reinhard or—

 

[Zabazab]

Uh, No.

I don't know if you've misunderstood what I've said, but the 3 events are incompatible with eachother if you assuming Reinhard is outright sub-lightning speed, ignoring nerfs or PIS.

For Cecilus

It is indeed implicated that the cause is Pandemonium given the narration, yes.

I talked about Julius's magic attack and showed every translation to it.

We discussed Al Clauzeria here onwards.