[Re:Zero] Transcendents Scale to Reinhard

[Lgamer099_99]

I still think that Cecilus cutting Al Shario makes him comparable to volcanica in AP at the very least. Also volcanica didn't get any different statements from the ones Cecilus got.

At the very least Cecilus and halibel should get a possibly or even likely rating

 

[Gigi_4_life]

I still think that Cecilus cutting Al Shario makes him comparable to volcanica in AP at the very least. Also volcanica didn't get any different statements from the ones Cecilus got.

At the very least Cecilus and halibel should get a possibly or even likely rating

I agree, but even if you wanna downplay, Cecilus with the Dream Sword is at the bare minimum high 6A, since it's confirmed he's above base Reinhard in AP

Spoiler: ARC 9 CHAPTER 14

That Al Shario could not be defended against, he would not take such an optimistic viewpoint.

In fact, the Blue Lightning, who was considered to be on par with the Sword Saint, had achieved a feat of supremacy unbounded by slaying a falling star with a single slice of his katana during the decisive battle for the Imperial Capital.

That star had been cut down through the combined effect of Cecilus’s swordsmanship and the Dream Sword’s power; he did not think that Reinhard, unable to draw the Dragon Sword as he was, could replicate such a feat.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Funny that people use the Volcanica equal to reinhard statements when they aren't exactly equal, while they ignore how the series literally mention the strongest of other nations as almost equal to reinhard when literally they were trying to understand who was Reid, the guy on reinhard level. Really wonder what the author meant with that, oh right..

 

[VortechsTG]

I still think that Cecilus cutting Al Shario makes him comparable to volcanica in AP at the very least. Also volcanica didn't get any different statements from the ones Cecilus got.

One is straight from the author and the other is from characters that are constantly unreliable but alright.

Funny that people use the Volcanica equal to reinhard statements when they aren't exactly equal, while they ignore how the series literally mention the strongest of other nations as almost equal to reinhard when literally they were trying to understand who was Reid, the guy on reinhard level. Really wonder what the author meant with that, oh right..

Nobody is ignoring those statements. They simply exist within their context. The context is vastly different between these statements.

 

[Zabazab]

One is straight from the author and the other is from characters that are constantly unreliable but alright.

If we look at just what Cecilus and Halibel have said about Reinhard:

“Er?” Cecilus had been so itching to draw his weapons that it looked as if he had received a most unexpected blow. The man appeared more and more shaken as he was given a broad outline of what had happened. Finally, he looked around at them vacantly, his gaze settling on Reinhard. “Um, then what about settling things between us?”

“I’m afraid I’ll have to ask that it be another time,” Reinhard responded with a wry smile. “Perhaps when I’m not in… this situation.” He tapped a finger against the Collar of Submission around his neck.

“Ahh, yes indeed,” Cecilus said, nodding. “But— doesn’t that mean I am wholly and truly outmatched?!”

The despairing cry of the empire’s strongest swordsman concluded the special diplomatic mission between the Empire of Vollachia and the Kingdom of Lugunica. –Ex Volume 4, "Diplomacy by Bloodshed"

"Have you ever done anything General First-Class-like?"

"I have! With the dignity of the Vollachian Empire at stake, I fought a one-on-one battle with the Kingdom’s strongest, the Sword Saint!"

"I heard you got your ass kicked."

"Well, when we fought again in the Kingdom it was a draw!"

Stamping his foot on the ground, Cecilus responded to Arakiya’s comment by pouting.

Unfortunately, there were strict orders that anything related to Cecilus’s aforementioned embarkment into the Kingdom, including the incident he had caused over there, should not be relayed to others. –Sword Identity, Part 2

“That’s why there’s people who’re more motivated than me flyin’ around. So long as they ain’t stronger than me, I guess there ain’t no problem.”

“People stronger than Halibel-san…”

“The only one who’s absolutely stronger than me’s the Kingdom’s Sword Saint. That ‘un aside, it depends on compatibility n’ the circumstances.”

Halibel’s softly-worded response gave Subaru a sense of both relief and trepidation.

Having a strong person take pride in their strength, just like Cecilus did, was nothing short of reassuring for an ally. That was especially true if they were among the strongest in the world.

Precisely because of that, he could not help but be astounded by how out of the ordinary Reinhard was, who had his strength “absolutely” guaranteed by some of the world’s strongest. –Volume 38, Chapter 2

 

[Lgamer099_99]

If we look at just what Cecilus and Halibel have said about Reinhard:

This stuff is no different from like Whitebeard being the strongest among emperors kind of thing tho, we also got Sekhmet scaling to Volcanica when she can fight the dragon for some amount of time...

Also the author is still

Spoiler: Last chapter

mentioning IFs implying they are Canon and literally also in the wrath if Halibel who thinks that on the right circumstances he would beat Cecilus and we saw what Cecilus did to Reinhard in that route.

The Al shario thing is also pretty clear, also I know that

Spoiler

the dragon is nerfed, but it seems that sealed weakend Satella is indeed better than the dragon

Also if I remember correctly Tappei stated that Reid would easily cut off the head of the top 5 he did except reinhard, and there were Sekmhet and Ram with horn both implied to be a challange to the dragon but at the sime time Volcanica can challange Reid and Reinhard.
It's messy.

Q: Approximately how strong is the first generation Sword Saint Reid? (Based mainly on Reinhard)

A: Yesterday, I gave the power rankings of the (top) five people among the current characters, however with the exception of Reinhard he can behead all of them.

 

[VortechsTG]

There needs to be a note on the verse page that IF content is not valid for scaling.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

There needs to be a note on the verse page that IF content is not valid for scaling.

I was just thinking of bringing up how I think there's no difference between Cecilus in the main route and the wrath if route but sure

Do you think they're not valid because they're outdated?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

I was just thinking of bringing up how I think there's no difference between Cecilus in the main route and the wrath if route but sure

Do you think they're not valid because they're outdated?

Spoiler

Didn't the current chapter literally mention them?

 

[VortechsTG]

I was just thinking of bringing up how I think there's no difference between Cecilus in the main route and the wrath if route but sure

Do you think they're not valid because they're outdated?

They're not valid because they're half assed and hilariously vague. Most and I mean MOST of what we know about pride if comes from Tappei talking about it rather than from the story itself. Wrath if isn't much better.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Spoiler

Didn't the current chapter literally mention them?

How so?

 

[Gigi_4_life]

They're not valid because they're half assed and hilariously vague. Most and I mean MOST of what we know about pride if comes from Tappei talking about it rather than from the story itself. Wrath if isn't much better.

That's fair, the writing style for the if stories (before their LN adaptation) is very different and completely skips most of Subaru's progress to go directly to the results.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

How so?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

They're not valid because they're half assed and hilariously vague. Most and I mean MOST of what we know about pride if comes from Tappei talking about it rather than from the story itself. Wrath if isn't much better.

I completely disagree with it.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

oh that's really cool

 

[Lgamer099_99]

oh that's really cool

Written by the author, still mentioned by Tappei and he uses IFs to reveal stuff that is valid for the main route but the Fandom randomly decided they aren't valid for some reason.

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

I'd still support the IF Light Novels (Rem IF & Kasaneru IF) and the full LiM route (Aganau IF) having canon information. It's true that web novel routes like Oboreru have contradictory information though, such as swapping which sword is Cecilus' best.

 

[VortechsTG]

I'd still support the IF Light Novels (Rem IF & Kasaneru IF) and the full LiM route (Aganau IF) having canon information. It's true that web novel routes like Oboreru have contradictory information though, such as swapping which sword is Cecilus' best.

Yeah, this is very fair. I can get behind this.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

People when they'll find out that Cecilus being a counter to reinhard is basically a major point in oboreru that won't change in a light novel adaptation regardless

 

[Gigi_4_life]

bump

 

[Gigi_4_life]

People when they'll find out that Cecilus being a counter to reinhard is basically a major point in oboreru that won't change in a light novel adaptation regardless

Honestly, his wrath if key should simply be fused to his main story one, there's quite literally nothing indicating he got some sort of training arc where he's significantly stronger (heck, the entire point of Cecilus' journey in wrath if is that he's desperate to get stronger and arc 8 more or less makes main story Cecilus closer to getting stronger than wrath if Cecilus will ever be)

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Honestly, his wrath if key should simply be fused to his main story one, there's quite literally nothing indicating he got some sort of training arc where he's significantly stronger (heck, the entire point of Cecilus' journey in wrath if is that he's desperate to get stronger and arc 8 more or less makes main story Cecilus closer to getting stronger than wrath if Cecilus will ever be)

Also halibel still implies he can take on cecilus in wrath if

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Also halibel still implies he can take on cecilus in wrath if

Indeed, the mercenaries of Pleiades (honestly, they shouldn't matter too much power scaling wise since they got instantly killed by Reinhard lol) believe they can tie with Cecilus if they have Halibel on their side

Spoiler: WRATH IF

Cecilus: “Those dark circles are quite severe. Maybe you should sleep softly next to the princess for a while?”

At Cecilus’s words, the boy’s tongue clicked.

Cecilus just laughed it off, but the other men around him froze with tension in their bodies. It was possible that, because of that irritation, Cecilus’s slaying could be ordered.

Of course, if push came to shove, killing Cecilus would be no trivial affair. Using every force available in the building, they would have to try to force a draw with Halibel in the mix as well

Although the story notes that in terms of pure combat power, Halibel is behind Cecilus, that doesn't really diminish Halibel's capabilities, as his fighting style is more about using hax techniques and even after that statement, Halibel was ready to throw hands with Cecilus (I think the story makes it clear he's weaker than Cecilus and Reinhard, but he can definitely put up a fight against them)

Spoiler: WRATH IF

Halibel: “Ce-san, aren’t’cha even more of an assassin than I, a shinobi, am?”

Cecilus: “No, no, definitely not true, I mean, stuff like lurking in the water, or hiding poison on my person, or rising from the shadows is impossible for me.”

Shaking his head and hands, Cecilus humbly responded by acknowledging the difference between their respective areas.

As a shinobi, as an assassin, he was far behind Halibel. But, if fighting head-on, Halibel was no match for Cecilus.

Cecilus: “Well then, having just caught me at the scene of me meeting with a secret messenger, what are you thinking of doing? Are you planning on fighting me with your life on the line here?”

Halibel: “That depends on the nature of the message.”

Cecilus: “Hmm, you mean its contents.”

Halibel: “If its contents’d mean Su-san’s death, I guess I gotta fight to stop that.”

Holding his kiseru between his fingers, letting out a puff of violet smoke, Halibel’s fur fluttered in the cold night breeze.

Hearing he was ready to fight to the death for his master, Cecilus, with an “I see”, nodded his head.

 

[VortechsTG]

Indeed, the mercenaries of Pleiades (honestly, they shouldn't matter too much power scaling wise since they got instantly killed by Reinhard lol) believe they can tie with Cecilus if they have Halibel on their side

Lol lmao

(I think the story makes it clear he's weaker than Cecilus and Reinhard, but he can definitely put up a fight against them)

Moon level FTL Groovy confirmed

As a shinobi, as an assassin, he was far behind Halibel. But, if fighting head-on, Halibel was no match for Cecilus.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Moon level FTL Groovy confirmed

Groovy doesn't scale in any way shape or form to Halibel sadly

lmao
nah but there's a reason I didn't say Halibel should be 5-C, I only said that for Cecilus

 

[Lgamer099_99]

nah but there's a reason I didn't say Halibel should be 5-C, I only said that for Cecilus

Yeah I think halibel would mostly scale speed wise and can probably ignore durability or/and use several abilities.
He lacks firepower

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Tappei do you love me

Spoiler: ARC 9 CHAPTER 19 SPOILERS

Yae: [Even if you say I’m the greatest masterpiece, I did fail in my assassination attempt~? Besides, it’s not the job of a shinobi to slaughter a hundred or a thousand people on the battlefield. I’m no Blue Lightning, after all.]

Aldebaran: [Well, I guess you’re right.]

The Blue Lightning, who Yae pouted her lips as she brought up―― Cecilus, was somebody who Aldebaran had also worked together with, though only for a brief time.

His abilities were just as the anecdotal exaggeration Yae had described, and he was a member of the same realm of incomprehensible outliers that included Reinhard.