Rakudai CRT cus I'm bored: Desperado Power Nullification

[Paul_Frank]

It applies to 9 from the ppl that have a profile, even more in reality but they just don't have a profile yet. So that's already almost a 3rd of the pages having the ability.

Okay let me reword, only 7 people from the verse page are desperados according to their own pages. A third of the verse (even accounting ones that don't have a page, it's like 28%) isn't exactly a lot to warrant a page, especially when the page itself is such a minimal amount of powers.

Yes, the 3 other powers apply to 4 pages.

Yes, so its a page with 4 powers for all desperados, and an extra 3 for a very small handful of others, this is certainly not an excessive amount of powers, or really enough to warrant a page, compared to like, all the other verse specific power pages that were allowed to stay, except for like Borrowed Power, which also only has 5 powers, even though a low amount of powers was an issue mentioned on the thread about verse specific powers so idk what that's about, guess it could be because of it elaborating on all the weaknesses, but I digress.

Well all of the things i mentioned are things i've made a CRT to accept. Not random things i made up. As for the "isn't how you're supposed to do it", that depends.
Plant Physiology (Trigun)
Servant Physiology
Borrowed Power
Nen
None of these have any scans either.

Fair enough, its mostly because you tried to use PI as an example, which does in fact have scans or quotes for everything

There are no japanese raws. But we accept things that have been translated once, so i can post the russian quotes if you want since that is only japanese to russian.

I find this extremely hard to believe. What is the Russian translation translating if not the Japanese raws then. Unless you meant to say "I couldn't find the Japanese raws" which is a different situation.
Also, posting the Russian quotes isn't really fixing the issue of "this is an originally Japanese work, translated into Russain, and then the Russian is translated to English", as that's exactly what would happen if you posted the Russian quotes and had someone read them

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Unless you meant to say "I couldn't find the Japanese raws" which is a different situation.

That's what i mean yes, but more in a sense of "the raw versions are actual books that is hard if possible at all to find online".

A third of the verse (even accounting ones that don't have a page, it's like 28%) isn't exactly a lot to warrant a page, especially when the page itself is such a minimal amount of powers.

How is a 3rd of the verse not a lot?

because you tried to use PI as an example

PI as an example for "basic fate hax with a lot of applications". Desperado is in no way less complex than PI.

Yes, so its a page with 4 powers for all desperados

4....what? Acausality, AFD, Paralysis, Resistance creation, future manip, Statistics and Dura neg, not counting Fate and Causality which are the means to all of these. So that's 7 not counting Causality and Fate. And for 4 people it goes up to 10 abilities. Haki has a similar amount of abilities. And that's not counting pages like Light Hawk Wings which are inferior to Desperado in every way (both number of people and number of abilities).

 

[Paul_Frank]

That's what i mean yes, but more in a sense of "the raw versions are actual books that is hard if possible at all to find online".

Purchase them or wait for the translation smh. I'm positive you could find them with enough effort. And difficulty to obtain it for free doesn't really make this better. The issue is that in any translation, important things may be lost. Now, translating directly from Japanese to English, while it still loses stuff, isn't terrible usually. The problem comes in when translating through another language. By translating it from Japanese to Russian, things are of course lost between the wildly different languages, then this is made worse by translating the Russian then to English.

Due to this, there's no way to actually check how accurate these secondary translations are, since apparently no one has access to the raws which is where the problem comes from. You can check if its roughly accurate to the Russian, but how are you supposed to know how accurate the Russian is to the Japanese?

Either way, not the main thing I wanted to talk about, just a decently big issue for the verse.

How is a 3rd of the verse not a lot?

Well, aside from 28% not being a third, I'm fairly positive that even among the pages you listed, significantly more than a third of the verse has those abilities.

4....what? Acausality, AFD, Paralysis, Resistance creation, future manip, Statistics and Dura neg, not counting Fate and Causality which are the means to all of these. So that's 7 not counting Causality and Fate. And for 4 people it goes up to 10 abilities. Haki has a similar amount of abilities. And that's not counting pages like Light Hawk Wings which are inferior to Desperado in every way (both number of people and number of abilities).

Acausality, AFD, Cauality and Fate manip are the 4. The other things, paralysis through dura neg, as stated both by you and the page, are just uses of the Causality and Fate manip. They aren't actually powers themselves, but rather just applications of those two powers, hence me not counting them, as, without a page, it'd just be listed in the parentheses after those two abilities, as their usage. So for 4 people it goes up to 7 under this metric.

Haki has between like, 5-8 abilities per type, not just in total.

Light Hawk Wings are apparently supposed to be a weapon, not a verse specific power anyway? It's also Tenchi Muyo, which outside of like, small cleanups and the recent downgrade, hasn't been touched in like, 3 years so idk if thats the best page to use to support this.

Even using it as an example, that page has 7 powers as well, and is on every single page for the verse besides The D, and Misaki. So it's not inferior in the number of people, or in the number of abilities, unless you count the the paralysis, future manip and stuff as their own powers, despite it saying they're just uses of Causality and Fate

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that YuriAkuto will continue to improve on the Tenchi Muyo pages, and that LHWs are a verse-specific power.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They aren't exactly an issue as almost nothing we do with rakudai is based off of single word translation (besides multipliers which I provide raws for), but rather the context. The exact word may change, but the context doesn't.

Light hawk wings say hi to "more than a third of the verse", so does haki. Case and point, a third of the verse is definitely a lot.

.... by that logic the page gives 1 power cus everything is an application of acausality. And let's remove PI cuz it's literally just basic fate hax and everything else is an application of it.

Haki doesn't have more than like...11 or so total.

Ant answered that.

And the "every page besides 2" in this case is less than the number of Desperados. Not to mention, as I said, applications matter.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Context can certainly be lost in translation, it is in fact still an issue, though you can argue its less of one, in any case, I'm not sure we have any other verse that is currently based on a translation of a translation between very different languages, and if we don't, there's likely a reason for that.

Both of those are on more than a third of the verse though? LHW at the least are, and I'm fairly sure Haki is as well. If you wanted an example of a verse specific power page that is on 30% or less of the verse, a better example would have been Dynamax than either of these.

I mean, you have said and even put on the page that they're just applications of those two powers. Its not them actually using something for those abilities, it's just creating those effects with the two powers. They aren't applications of the Acausality, the fate and causality manip are granted by the Acausality, there's a difference there. They are abilities they gain access to due to the Acausality, and then the sub powers are just uses of those two powers.

The PI example doesn't work when you realize that PI isn't just fate manip to achieve an effect based on both its effects and descriptions so eh.

What? There are like 16 between the three types.

No, the every page besides 2 isn't less than Desperado percentage wise. Going off sheer numbers, sure, because there are also less Tenchi Muyo pages in total. And even using applications to boost the amount of stuff Desperado gives, it'd be 12 including excessive awakening, and LHW has 8 powers, and 3 weaknesses, so just counting powers, Desperado would finally have more powers than one of the pages you've listed.

For the sake of argument, let's count every sub power as a separate ability and not a usage of causality and fate manip for 12 total, let's say 28% rounds up to a third of the verse, and let's ignore the fact that this is also not either a power or physiology, then yes, this can work as a page

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Context can certainly be lost in translation, it is in fact still an issue, though you can argue its less of one, in any case, I'm not sure we have any other verse that is currently based on a translation of a translation between very different languages, and if we don't, there's likely a reason for that.

Doubt it. But the thing is, the russian scans can be checked by a multilingual member, who are trusted 100% on their stuff. Meaning there is only 1 translation to worry about, that from japan to russian.

They are abilities they gain access to due to the Acausality, and then the sub powers are just uses of those two powers.

Pretty much.

The PI example doesn't work when you realize that PI isn't just fate manip to achieve an effect based on both its effects and descriptions so eh.

It is. By it's very definition it's just fate hax.

then yes, this can work as a page

Ok then good.

 

[Ionliosite]

this is also not either a power or physiology

It's technically a physiology, since Desperados technically stop counting as human and are instead demons.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's a state of being more than a physiology but yes.

 

[Bobsican]

I hope this page gets proper scans soon

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It will dw. But until then can y'all answer this:

People have also asked me to make one for blazers but idk if that's necessary.

In terms of usage it would be on 100% of the verses.
Although it's more explanation than abilities. It would give at least 6 abilities then explanation about types of abilities. The system etc etc.

 

[Ionliosite]

Eh, I'm unsure, but if we do make one for Blazers, we would have to delete the one for Desperado, since Desperado would also be covered by it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually i never thought about it. Blazer could actually include Desperado.

 

[Antvasima]

So have you worked out any conclusions here?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ion did give a good idea with the "create a blazer page that includes desperado as well". And this would solve Paul's issues with the number of ppl it scales to (cus it would scale to the entire verse) and number of abilities it gives as it would give a lot more.

My only question for you ant is:

Is there a way we can rename the Desperado Existence page into "Blazer Physiology"?

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that Desperado Existence sounds better.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah but Desperado Existence is a form of evolution beyond being a Blazer, so we could have both in the same page.

I guess to explain it with an example you might be more familiar with. Think of Desperado Existence as Super Saiyan God (from Dragon Ball), and Blazer Physiology as Saiyan Physiology.

Saiyan Physiology would include Super Saiyan God, due to the latter being an evolved form of the former. The exact same situation with Desperado and Blazer.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Noted.

@LordGinSama @Bobsican @Ionliosite @Paul_Frank

What do you think?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Before they give their input. Could you answer my question: Is it possible to rename the Desperado Physiology page?

 

[LordGinSama]

I think Earl's suggestion of putting both in the same page makes sense. I did the same thing more or less to explain the difference between Non Independent Plants and Independent Plants, he'd just need to explain how Desperado's are evolved forms of Blazers and list their powers and abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, just renaming "Desperado Existance" to "Blazer Physiology" and adding basic Blazer powers to it should be good.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Can you rename the page Ant?

Blazer Physiology

Blazer are unique beings capable of wielding magic and turning the source of said magic, their soul, into a weapon within the Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry universe. Due to their immense capabilities and natural traits not only are they almost impossible to be defeated by a normal human, but also...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Into "Blazer Physiology". I will take care of the rest.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Antvasima]

I handled it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Thanks, I will take care of the rest of the changes tomorrow.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok I am done doing all the things i had to do to the page:

Blazer Physiology

Blazer are unique beings capable of wielding magic and turning the source of said magic, their soul, into a weapon within the Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry universe. Due to their immense capabilities and natural traits not only are they almost impossible to be defeated by a normal human, but also...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Feel free to evaluate it. I added all the explanation, all the blazer stuff and added scans for the non obvious stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Thanks for the evaluation.

I believe we are done here then. All that's left to do is to apply that to the profile, but i can do that in my spare time, no need for a thread about it.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of you think?

 

[Ionliosite]

I corrected a minor formatting issue, but it looks good now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. So what, if anything, is left to do here?

 

[Bobsican]

Thanks for the evaluation.

I believe we are done here then. All that's left to do is to apply that to the profile, but i can do that in my spare time, no need for a thread about it.

Judging by this Earl is covering anything else that may be missing as it's too minor to need a CRT.
This thread can be closed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. Thanks to everybody who are helping out.