Upgrade Transduality type 1 Desperados Rakudai kishi no Cavalry

[AshMcXuelan23]

I made this because I saw the answer I asked before

okay before we get to the point we need to know the conditions for getting Transduality. The requirement to get Transduality is to have to go beyond "Duality" and "Non-duality" itself, or be at a level that is superior to both of them. and the requirement to get type 1 is Being qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of one or several specific dual systems.

- What is Duality?
Duality is a condition or whatever that is opposite but still side by side
- what is non-duality?
Non-Duality is a condition where our spirituality believes that there is no such thing as two sides, but only Oneness.

The essence of this Upgrade is :

Duality in question is (Cause & Effect) because Cause & Effect is Duality, and Non-Duality in question is (Causality/Causation) where Desperados believes that there is no Cause & Effect but only Causality/Causation

And Desperados has been Transcended/Outside of the Duality & Non-Duality
ouside duality and transcended non duality :

– This self-direction of causality is a special characteristic that not only I or Desperado》 have, but also everyone. You should feel it when you face off against Marionette King》, Haboob》 and the others, right?
It is on their backs, fate is called their death. As long as you sense their fate, you will have no chance of escaping.
You will continue to be attracted by the gravitational pull of Desperados》 and their fate will lead you to the end of what you also imagined.
The being who transcends this, and who transcends causality like me none other than Desperados》.
( Vol 12 )

- Desperados is also Immune to all abilities based on the Causality system in the rakudai world. and also explained in the forum

thank you for attantion. and let's go

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

@Nameless24

 

[Nameless24]

NEUTRAL possible Agree

But,
A little information:

Beyond or Outside = Transcended special in his world

Here : Transcended=Outside

Why Transcended Fate get Transcended Causality?

<The world's system of Fate & Causality is 1 package>

《 Nameless Glory 》

Here: Nameless Glory

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

NEUTRAL

But,
A little information:

Beyond or Outside = Transcended special in his world

Here : Transcended=Outside



<The world's system of Fate & Causality is 1 package>

《 Nameless Glory 》

Here: Nameless Glory

Thanks for your help

 

[Everything12]

Cause and Effect aren't a duality. Hot and cold, life and death, order and chaos. Duality are formed from two elements that are opposite of each; though even these standard examples of dual elements only give Transduality if their are statements of them being dualities in the source.

Effect is not opposite of cause, an effect is what happens after a cause.

Basically, those three people in that thread that answered your question were wrong.

 

[Sniper670]

Eh, you don't need to get explicitly mentioned "Duality".

As long as it's described and acts dependent on each other in verse and the concepts are dualities irl, you're good to go.

You can check the recent TD 2 crt for maou Gakuin

 

[Everything12]

I considered such evidence of elements being opposite of each other being an important aspect of the cosmology as being statements of being dualities.

 

[Sniper670]

Alright.

I'm not seeing TD from the crt.

All being described is around Acausality 5. TD of causality will still end you with Aca 5. There's no difference between being transceding causality(Aca 5) and being outside the binary of cause and effect(TD of cause and effect=Aca 5). That's like nep nature type 2 and TD of Existence /Nonexistence. Still the same

 

[Nameless24]

Cause and Effect aren't a duality. Hot and cold, life and death, order and chaos. Duality are formed from two elements that are opposite of each; though even these standard examples of dual elements only give Transduality if their are statements of them being dualities in the source.

Effect is not opposite of cause, an effect is what happens after a cause.

Basically, those three people in that thread that answered your question were wrong.

Isn't Cause-Effect ≠ Cause & Effect?

●Cause (-) Effect "usually leads to one thing"

●Cause (&) Effect "while (&) leads to two different things"

here it is said Cause to be the opposite of Effect Here

 

[Everything12]

Their is no difference whether their is an and or hyphen. That part about cause (beginning) being opposite to effect (end result) might have relevance elsewhere, but none of the evidence presented here points towards that being the case for this series.

 

[Nameless24]

Their is no difference whether their is an and or hyphen. That part about cause (beginning) being opposite to effect (end result) might have relevance elsewhere, but none of the evidence presented here points towards that being the case for this series.

Isn't this not Duality?


because throughout the novel never call it Cause & Effect but only Causality & Causation

 

[Everything12]

It isn't.

 

[Nameless24]

It isn't.

Why?
what proof do you need for it to be a duality?

 

[Fixxed]

Cause and Effect aren't a duality. Hot and cold, life and death, order and chaos. Duality are formed from two elements that are opposite of each; though even these standard examples of dual elements only give Transduality if their are statements of them being dualities in the source.

Effect is not opposite of cause, an effect is what happens after a cause.

Basically, those three people in that thread that answered your question were wrong.

Even time and space is duality, is time opposite of space??? I think is not

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Eh, you don't need to get explicitly mentioned "Duality".

As long as it's described and acts dependent on each other in verse and the concepts are dualities irl, you're good to go.

You can check the recent TD 2 crt for maou Gakuin

That was different things. It's clearly shows dualities. Also TD is only given to specific forms of individual characters.

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

It isn't.

cause and effect is an abstract that contradicts each other but is still interconnected and this has been defined as duality. and if space and time are duality but why not this? space and time do not contradict each other and are slightly related

and for the case in this novel. This causation and causality is an abstract that they believe is from 2 things that become one and this can also be said to be non duality, namely cause and effect as sent above

 

[Sniper670]

That was different things. It's clearly shows dualities. Also TD is only given to specific forms of individual characters.

Isn't that exactly how I described it?

If there are two opposing concepts that interdependent........ basically exactly what duality is in anything but name, you'll get TD if you transcend that. Simple

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

Isn't that exactly how I described it?

If there are two opposing concepts that interdependent........ basically exactly what duality is in anything but name, you'll get TD if you transcend that. Simple

Exactly

 

[Everything12]

Even time and space is duality, is time opposite of space??? I think is not

It can be. They don't need to be the absence of the other element to be their opposite.

However, Cause and Effect are not typically elements that are represented as opposite of each other. And none of the scans you have shown give any hint that this series considers them that way.

 

[DontTalkDT]

For transduality the dual system in question needs to be a duality in a logical sense, not in terms of common language.
E.g. in common language hot might be the opposite of cold, but that is not a duality in logic. The fact that something can be neither hot or cold (either having no concept of temperature or being of medium heat) shows that it is no 'duality'.
In logic the duality would be "Having the property to be hot" and "Having the property to not be hot." For anything in existence one of those two statements must logically be true and only one. Those are what logical opposites are like.

Hence, in logical terms, cause isn't the opposite of effect. The opposite of "Having the property to be a cause" is "Having the property to not be a cause". Since not being a cause is not equivalent to being an effect, this is not the same as cause and effect, though. E.g. something can be both cause & effect at once (most things are) and others are neither (e.g. the number 4 as a mathematical concept isn't really either of that).

In general, a transdual character is in a paradoxical truth state of some sort. I.e. something should be both true and false at once or neither true nor false or something like that.

So acausality and transduality are different things.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

For transduality the dual system in question needs to be a duality in a logical sense, not in terms of common language.
E.g. in common language hot might be the opposite of cold, but that is not a duality in logic. The fact that something can be neither hot or cold (either having no concept of temperature or being of medium heat) shows that it is no 'duality'.
In logic the duality would be "Having the property to be hot" and "Having the property to not be hot." For anything in existence one of those two statements must logically be true and only one. Those are what logical opposites are like.

Hence, in logical terms, cause isn't the opposite of effect. The opposite of "Having the property to be a cause" is "Having the property to not be a cause". Since not being a cause is not equivalent to being an effect, this is not the same as cause and effect, though. E.g. something can be both cause & effect at one (most things are) and others are neither (e.g. the number 4 as a mathematical concept isn't really either of that).

In general, a transdual character is in a paradoxical true state of some sort. I.e. something should be both true and false at once or neither true nor false or something like that.

So acausality and transduality are different things.

Sorry to ask this here but I have a question can TD 2 can affect Acausality type 5.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Well I agree with that, after all actually cause and effect itself is basically not a duality that contradicts each other as is the case with life and death. Cause and effect are basically related to each other, a cause will produce an effect as well as an effect that must be caused by something called effect. So basically cause and effect are related to each other.

However, in many cases in many fiction, cause and effect can be considered as a duality, let alone a question that shows cause and effect there refers to a duality.

By the way, I'm neutral about this, after all, even if it's accepted as a Transduality Type 1, it wouldn't be too important considering there are a lot of character on vsb with the same case where they have Transduality Type 1 but it's not included in their profile.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Sorry to ask this here but I have a question can TD 2 can affect Acausality type 5.

Case by case.

 

[Everything12]

Sorry to ask this here but I have a question can TD 2 can affect Acausality type 5.

Not the place.

But to put it simply, no. You need feats or statements to prove that the series considers Transduality on the same level as Acausality Type 5.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Sorry to ask this here but I have a question can TD 2 can affect Acausality type 5.

It's difference case by the way

 

[Sniper670]

I'm confused. So what are the boundaries of Transduality?

That ability seems outdated and needs to be checked.

Cause and effect is case by case then why TD 2 to begin with. Cos its transcending all dual systems

 

[Orioreeem]

Case by case.

What would be common cases for it to be true?
If causality is presented as a duality would that be enough?
What does transduality even give you and what do you need to interact with it aside from feats?
Honestly the page is pretty bad and answer to what the power gives should really be on it.

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

In general, a transdual character is in a paradoxical truth state of some sort. I.e. something should be both true and false at once or neither true nor false or something like that.

However Desperados were Existences that Transcended world causality but they were still in the realm of Type 4 Acausality

This makes them

Not Irregular Causality (Acausality type 4) & Not Transcended Causality (Acausality type 5) because Desperados have transcended causality but they can still be seen(cause) & visible(effect)

So they are in the middle between Acausality type 4 & Acausality type 5

Why do I say they are not aca4 & not aca5

Because aca4 only provides resistance for abilities that should be resisted by aca4

While aca4 desperados are immune from all abilities based on the system they transcended

 

[Megaraptor149]

What would be common cases for it to be true?
If causality is presented as a duality would that be enough?
What does transduality even give you and what do you need to interact with it aside from feats?
Honestly the page is pretty bad and answer to what the power gives should really be on it.

If causality presented as duality if feats in a fiction explain about it then yes

 

[DigiAnymore]

In my opinion, it is necessary or a clear context regarding Cause & Effect there (Rakudai) does indeed enter Duality, maybe like Desperados Transcend Concept Cause & Effect? IMO, I'm neutral in this CRT.

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

In my opinion, it is necessary or a clear context regarding Cause & Effect there (Rakudai) does indeed enter Duality, maybe like Desperados Transcend Concept Cause & Effect? IMO, I'm neutral in this CRT.

The causality in Rakudai is something that comes directly from the goddess and the causality system that which leads directly the cause and effect that exists in the world. there is no intermediary like Rukh in magi or anything that refers to the cause and effect. real from the beginning

Feats: "However ── that word coming out from Amane, who had received the
indulgence of the goddess that controlled causality in the world, would not
stop at mere words."
(Light Novel Volume 8)

Feats: "A Blazer that used Nameless Glory, an ominous Noble Arts that belonged to
the causal interference system, which simply granted his wishes."

and desperados transcended it

 

[Fixxed]

neutral about cause-effect is a duality.

But here I want to give my opinion.

although cause-effect is not something opposite, therefore cause-effect is not categorized as duality.

But cause-effect also has non duality which is what we usually call "Karma/Causality"

I think if these 2 things have non duality then these 2 things can be categorized as Duality

 

[Nameless24]

Bump

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

– This self-direction of causality is a special characteristic that not only I or Desperado》 have, but also everyone. You should feel it when you face off against Marionette King》, Haboob》 and the others, right?
It is on their backs, fate is called their death. As long as you sense their fate, you will have no chance of escaping.
You will continue to be attracted by the gravitational pull of Desperados》 and their fate will lead you to the end of what you also imagined.
The being who transcends this, and who transcends causality like me none other than Desperados》.
( Vol 12 )

Neutral and following
Also where are you reading v12+?

Currently on v13 and what i read doesn't have "transcend causality" in it

She tried to surpass her will and challenge Edelweiss. As a result of this act, the causal relationships of this world worked against her.
Suddenly, Stella remembered one moment.
Then, in the battle against habub, Nene ordered her not to interfere in the battle.
Stella was then literally bound by an invisible force.
So Nene also used a causal relationship.


“… This power is possessed not only by me, but by all Desperate ones . You should have felt the sudden approach of absolute death when you faced Or-Goul and Habub. As long as you feel all these feelings, you will be sucked in by the gravitational pull of the fate of the Desperate . If you can break free from this attraction, you will become one of us .. I hope you understand now? You cannot fight me in your current state.
- Ghh .. so I must surpass my destiny

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

Currently on v13 and what i read doesn't have "transcend causality" in it

not in v13 but in v12 when Stella challenged Edelweiss. and for other transcend feats, you can scale against transcend fate because the rakudai causality system in the world is already in the same package as fate :

NEUTRAL possible Agree

But,
A little information:

Beyond or Outside = Transcended special in his world

Here : Transcended=Outside



<The world's system of Fate & Causality is 1 package>

《 Nameless Glory 》

Here: Nameless Glory

Also where are you reading v12+?

I downloaded the pdf but have forgotten where it is. but i have saved all volumes in my gdrive

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

not in v13 but in v12

I know

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

not in v13 but in v12 when Stella challenged Edelweiss. and for other transcend feats, you can scale against transcend fate because the rakudai causality system in the world is already in the same package as fate :

"transcend" is kinda misleading which is why i was lost

The translations I'm reading always state the following or something similar when referring to desperados Being outside the causality and fate of the world

“This is no ordinary resistance. Nee-san used the gravitational pull of her fate .. "
A battle between two knights is a battle for who will be the first to take the initiative and intervene in fate.
This is especially noticeable in the battle between the Desperate , who do not belong to the causality of this world.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

NEUTRAL possible Agree

But,
A little information:

Beyond or Outside = Transcended special in his world

Here : Transcended=Outside



<The world's system of Fate & Causality is 1 package>

《 Nameless Glory 》

Here: Nameless Glory

Souka, didn't see this

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

I downloaded the pdf but have forgotten where it is. but i have saved all volumes in my gdrive

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

if you want i will share it. Just send a message in the conversation, and I'll send the link later

“This is no ordinary resistance. Nee-san used the gravitational pull of her fate .. "
A battle between two knights is a battle for who will be the first to take the initiative and intervene in fate.
This is especially noticeable in the battle between the Desperate , who do not belong to the causality of this world.

this is a battle between or gaule and iris right?