- 5,683
- 3,209
That one would honestly be better, but I will stop talking about this, yeahIf not, we just stick with the MFTL+ calc that we have now.
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That one would honestly be better, but I will stop talking about this, yeahIf not, we just stick with the MFTL+ calc that we have now.
You can't apply that logic on infinite-sized realms at all. Infinity divided by a value is still infinity. If there is explicit confirmation that the realm size is infinite but the character can wipe that slate clean in x timeframe, it's gonna be infinite regardless. Plain and simple. Read DontTalkDT's comment regarding Infinite Speed in infinite-sized realms here.I mean, even if the Universe is "infinite"
Engulfing the universe in 10 seconds is not infinite speed, unlike Gilver said, it takes time, the very meaning of infinite speed is something "instant"..,taking at least 2 seconds is not instant by default.
Just a massive MFTL+ scaling.
Then you understood wrong.Or at least that's how I understand it.
Not on this thread it isn't, especially not with your faulty reasoning.I think it's an important matter, but anyways
Not true. I only used statements from the show.Nope, Zamasu already tried to upgrade GT to 2-C with scans from Toei and Guidebook statements, but he failed iirc
Ah I see, my badNot true. I only used statements from the show.
Not even zeno will scale in that category imo.Ain't it only Zeno that scales to Super Shenron in any way? Lol
something something Zen'o gets blitzed by "FTL Dyspo"Not even zeno will scale in that category imo.
Yes, but then somehow he keeps up with MUI Goku without his padsomething something Zen'o gets blitzed by "FTL Dyspo"
and then Goku gets clapped by a trainYes, but then somehow he keeps up with MUI Goku without his pad
Train level? Don't you mean Bullet level?and then Goku gets clapped by a train
THE CYCLE CONTINUES
RockTrain level? Don't you mean Bullet level?![]()
Rock Sama is too powerfulRock
Rock sama stomps azazoth by merely existing tbh.Rock Sama is too powerful.
Mind mentioning which points do you exactly agree with?From what I've seen, I'm agreeing with AKM's posts right now.
Speed is not the main topic of this discussion and it should preferably remain that way.At this point, I'm switching my stance to neutral.
But I definitely concur with KLOL and Gliver's points regarding guides and infinite speed.
I'm not arguing for Infinite speed DB, I'm saying I agree with what you guys were saying in a general sense as far as the wiki is concerned, which is why I lumped it in with the guides stuff. I just believe the arguments being made on the other side were incorrect in a general sense, not just for DB.Speed is not the main topic of this discussion and it should preferably remain that way.
IT'S ABOUT DRIVE, IT'S ABOUT POWER
'Kay, enough derailing, can someone type up summaries of Zamasu's points and AKM's and let the Staff decide from that point onwards if there are no more points to add?
The retcon argument is silly btw. The Chouzenshuu was made in 2013 and the infinite statements still exist there.
That would be hard, since they mostly focused on the Daizenshuu stuff and nothing else in the last 2-3 pages.IT'S ABOUT DRIVE, IT'S ABOUT POWER
'Kay, enough derailing, can someone type up summaries of Zamasu's points and AKM's and let the Staff decide from that point onwards if there are no more points to add?
We stopped the derailment.Okay, this thread started getting out of control by the looks of it.
I'm pretty sure there were a lot more arguments made by Zamasu on it.
It does actually. The cosmology of the verse was changed significantly since 1994Multiverse doesn't mean anything, there is many fiction verses with multiverse that hold multiple infinite universes
This argument about Guidebooks has already been refuted, even by staff members. Stop.It does actually. The cosmology of the verse was changed significantly since 1994
you can’t claim a planet is proof of a concept that didn’t exist when the planet was introduced.
You would still have to prove the infinite darkness existed in the DBZ cosmology and the DBZ universe is infinite. And you couldn’t use the guidebooks as they didn’t exist then, and are describing the new cosmological model.
You would also have to explain way other major contradictions,
1. The Earth is stated to be at the edge of the universe by bulma and light reaches there.
2. The planet that sits between two universes edges is not shrouded in darkness
3. you would have to prove Yakon’s planet is infinitely far away.
—-
And I don’t know why this thread devolved into people arguing about “scrapping the guide books”. I never said to throw out the guide books. I said that the anime and manga has no showings of the infinite darkness nor do they ever mention it any times while talking about the cosmology.
The only piece of evidence proposed is that Yakons planet in dbz was described as dark being far away from any light at the edge of the universe but i have already explained why there is problems with accepting that as eveidence.
I need you stop attacking a strawman and actually address what i said.This argument about Guidebooks has already been refuted, even by staff members. Stop.
It has already been addressed and you ignored it. It's your problem, not mine.I need you stop attacking a strawman and actually address what i said.
My argument is that there is no evidence of the infinite darkness existing in the anime or manga of DBS. It has nothing to do with whether the guide books are valid or not.It has already been addressed and you ignored it. It's your problem, not mine.
Jesus ******* Christ why did this delve into a "Scrap all guidebooks" warzone?
Say what you will about the DB Universe's size, but no, we're not gonna scrap guidebooks completely. Ever. We'll accept what matches with the guidebook and reject what doesn't. We've always done it that way. Consistency comes first. If a guidebook adds on to a series without contradicting anything, there's no visible reason to axe it. Guidebooks aren't just solely about feats and descriptions, they can also shed considerable light on the powerscaling of a verse. This is literally the textbook definition of "Cutscenes or else non-canon" argument, which I don't have to tell you, will never fly on this site.
At this point, I'm switching my stance to neutral.
But I definitely concur with KLOL and Gliver's points regarding guides and infinite speed.
I believe we all have been debating in a civil manner till now.Okay, this thread started getting out of control by the looks of it.
Huh???, this is a very weak argument because you know what, the universe diagram still the same as DaizenshuuIt does actually. The cosmology of the verse was changed significantly since 1994
Daizenshuu & Chouzenshuu from 2013 use the same diagram:
What???, just because something release before or after doesn't mean it is invalid, what kind of argument is that???you can’t claim a planet is proof of a concept that didn’t exist when the planet was introduced.
This is literally guidebook argument. And like above, release after or before is irrelevantYou would still have to prove the infinite darkness existed in the DBZ cosmology and the DBZ universe is infinite. And you couldn’t use the guidebooks as they didn’t exist then, and are describing the new cosmological model.
1. not the edge of universe, but the edge of the macrocosm, which is the dimensional wall in the diagram. And lol Earth is inside Solar System, there is a literal sun1. The Earth is stated to be at the edge of the universe by bulma and light reaches there.
2. The planet that sits between two universes edges is not shrouded in darkness
3. you would have to prove Yakon’s planet is infinitely far away.