Puny nanomachines... (MCU Hulk vs. Senator Armstrong)

[Lacku]

Pre-Ragnarok Hulk managed to get downgraded to 7-B+ but at least he can fight Armstrong now.

(Avenger Hulk is used, Speed Equalised)

Hulk: FireSwordHero

Senator Armstrong: Oscar, GreatSage13th, Reploidnoridomix, StrymULTRA, Da3ggman, Unknownnah, Doggo, Arceus0x, GlaceonGlamez471, KingNanaya, Tyranno223

Inconclusive:

 

[Oscar]

In the AP section, Hulk scales about 50 Megatons while Armstrong does a 63 Megaton Scale, so the difference isn't that much. However, keep in mind that Armstrong has a better LS with which he could easily snap the Hulk's neck. And while the Hulk, even by the facts of his first movie, already gave the military trouble as Abomination, I think Armstrong has more combat experience for giving a more experienced assassin like Raiden trouble.

my vote goes to nanomachines

 

[Lacku]

In the AP section, Hulk scales about 50 Megatons while Armstrong does a 63 Megaton Scale, so the difference isn't that much. However, keep in mind that Armstrong has a better LS with which he could easily snap the Hulk's neck. And while the Hulk, even by the facts of his first movie, already gave the military trouble as Abomination, I think Armstrong has more combat experience for giving a more experienced assassin like Raiden trouble.

my vote goes to nanomachines

Counted

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Doesn't Armstrong have some insane upscaling for his durability?

 

[FireSwordHero]

Hard to tell who would win tbh. At a first glance, Armstrong seems to take this with higher AP and LS, but Hulk can get stronger the angrier he gets, so it would likely not be too much an advantage as Hulk could turn this around by getting angrier. And given that his later keys can reach 6B... well I think Hulk could definetely get stronger than Armstrong.

Also, while Armstrong does seem superior of the two, keep in mind that his nanomachine's need to absorb energy in order to access his full power and well as gain his regeneration capabilities. He had to drain several helicopters in order to defeat Sam, and had drained Excelsius of his energy prior to engaging Raider. Of course, we would probably allow Armstrong to have his full power during this fight, but the point is that Armstrong's nanomachine do have a time/energy limit.

Finally Armstrong does have a weakness in that his heart, if destroyed, would kill him since he can't seem to regenerate or come back on his heart is killed. While I don't think Hulk could get strong enough to destroy Armstrong's hardened skin, all hulk needs is to hit hard enough to esentially squeeze Armstrong's heart from the outside and cause it to "pop".

I would say Hulk can win this.

 

[Greatsage13th]

gotta vote armstrong

 

[Lacku]

gotta vote armstrong

Counted

 

[Lacku]

Hard to tell who would win tbh. At a first glance, Armstrong seems to take this with higher AP and LS, but Hulk can get stronger the angrier he gets, so it would likely not be too much an advantage as Hulk could turn this around by getting angrier. And given that his later keys can reach 6B... well I think Hulk could definetely get stronger than Armstrong.

Also, while Armstrong does seem superior of the two, keep in mind that his nanomachine's need to absorb energy in order to access his full power and well as gain his regeneration capabilities. He had to drain several helicopters in order to defeat Sam, and had drained Excelsius of his energy prior to engaging Raider. Of course, we would probably allow Armstrong to have his full power during this fight, but the point is that Armstrong's nanomachine do have a time/energy limit.

Finally Armstrong does have a weakness in that his heart, if destroyed, would kill him since he can't seem to regenerate or come back on his heart is killed. While I don't think Hulk could get strong enough to destroy Armstrong's hardened skin, all hulk needs is to hit hard enough to esentially squeeze Armstrong's heart from the outside and cause it to "pop".

I would say Hulk can win this.

Are you voting for Hulk then?

 

[FireSwordHero]

Are you voting for Hulk then?

yeah thats what I was saying

 

[Lacku]

yeah thats what I was saying

Counted

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

well I don't see how hulk gonna get this,imma vote senator

 

[Chariot190]

While I don't think Hulk could get strong enough to destroy Armstrong's hardened skin, all hulk needs is to hit hard enough to esentially squeeze Armstrong's heart from the outside and cause it to "pop".

And how is he going to do that when he, in your own words, cant break the hardened skin
The heart aint exactly out in the open, it's kind of encased entirely within that very hardened skin.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The man who played college ball FRA

 

[Lacku]

well I don't see how hulk gonna get this,imma vote senator

The man who played college ball FRA

Both counted

 

[FireSwordHero]

And how is he going to do that when he, in your own words, cant break the hardened skin
The heart aint exactly out in the open, it's kind of encased entirely within that very hardened skin.

Hulk can't cut through it, but nothing is stopping hulk from just denting it with brute strength. Hulk can get stronger overtime so I fail to see how he couldn't hurt Armstrong once he gets pissed enough. Considering his later keys are 6B, I think hulk could get strong enough to smash armstrong.

 

[Doggo]

Hulk FRA

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Considering his later keys are 6B

Which aren't being used. Only Hulk's 7-B key is being used and that's what he is limited to. "higher with rage" doesn't mean he can reach the level of his other keys

 

[Chariot190]

Hulk can't cut through it, but nothing is stopping hulk from just denting it with brute strength. Hulk can get stronger overtime so I fail to see how he couldn't hurt Armstrong once he gets pissed enough. Considering his later keys are 6B, I think hulk could get strong enough to smash armstrong.

Wdym denting it? Armstrong has regeneration. You have to tear away at it all at once in a nigh instant otherwise it'll reform itself.

 

[Da3ggman]

"My source is that I made it the **** up!" FRA

 

[Unknownnah]

Murica great again FRA

 

[Doggo]

changing my vote to funny senator fra

 

[FireSwordHero]

Which aren't being used. Only Hulk's 7-B key is being used and that's what he is limited to. "higher with rage" doesn't mean he can reach the level of his other keys

It was an example of how potentially high his AP could get given that Hulk's rage increases his power. I don't expect his key to Reach 6B, but given that the high end of 7B is approximately 100 megatons, the fact that we don't know the exact tiering Hulk gets with rage, and the fact that there is only a 13 AP difference between the two fighters, I'd say that the AP+LS advantage Armstrong starts with is barely an issue for the hulk.

Wdym denting it? Armstrong has regeneration. You have to tear away at it all at once in a nigh instant otherwise it'll reform itself.

First of all, speed equalization, so his nanomachines should follow this logic as well.

Second of all, Armstrong's regen isn't as foolproof as the profile makes it seem. He does have a weakness in the form of his human heart, as damaging or destroying it will stop his regeneration and kill him outright, otherwise he would have been able to keep fighting even after Raiden destroyed it. Given that it didn't take much more than a strong grip to crush it (albiet from a enhanced cyborg), its likely that Armstrong's insides are not as durable as his skin, hardened or not.

It should also be noted that Armstrong having nanomachine-hardened skin doesn't make him invulnerable with a single exploitable weakness, it just makes him tougher than he is normally. Against any other opponent, this would be helpful, but against someone like the Hulk who can increase in strength the more he fights and gets mad, Armstrong durability will simply not be enough in the long run. Add in the prior weakness I mentioned earlier, and all Hulk needs is one hit to Armstrong's main body (where his heart is located) and Armstrong is physically down for the count.

Thirdly, Hulk has his own regen abilities that, while not better than armstrongs, will still be able to keep him in a fight, especially against a person who uses primarily fists and blunt force, with a few explosive powers here and there.

 

[Arceus0x]

Nah it took Raiden several direct hits to the chest at 5x his normal speed, using a durability negating sword that is better than the usual durability negating sword just to cut deep enough to get to Armstrong's heart. Hulk ain't getting through before he gets put down and his rage power ain't getting him beyond what Armstrong upscales from.
I vote Armstrong

 

[Chariot190]

First of all, speed equalization, so his nanomachines should follow this logic as well

Not even remotely how it works, especially given in speed equal all attributes are equalized relative to combat speed. Meaning, no, theyre going to work the exact same way as they do in game from the perspective of Raiden and Armstrong. So unless Hulk has a huge speed amp he can whip out, they're not going to be able to be outdone by someone equal to Armstrong's combat speed.

Second of all, Armstrong's regen isn't as foolproof as the profile makes it seem. He does have a weakness in the form of his human heart, as damaging or destroying it will stop his regeneration and kill him outright, otherwise he would have been able to keep fighting even after Raiden destroyed it. Given that it didn't take much more than a strong grip to crush it (albiet from a enhanced cyborg), its likely that Armstrong's insides are not as durable as his skin, hardened or not.

????
You realize the whole of his body, inside and out, is nano machines, he's literally a claytronic human, outright stated that on a cellular level his body like that (in fact, iirc it's beyond cellular, it's an atomic scale but I'd need to check).

It's literally ONLY his heart that's vulnerable as it serves as the command center, a command center encased completely within his claytronic body.

Unless Hulk can rip it out and crush it or attack it directly, he ain't doing shit.

And mind you, a strong grip from a Cyborg who's incomparably beyond a few million tons in LS.
This argument is blatantly and demonstrably wrong.

Thirdly, Hulk has his own regen abilities that, while not better than armstrongs, will still be able to keep him in a fight, especially against a person who uses primarily fists and blunt force, with a few explosive powers here and there.

Reminder Armstrong has heat manip above Hulk's listed res, as it can burn Raiden who can facetank plasma. And the fact knocking out Hulk is a viable and canonical win condition.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Legweak FRA

 

[KingNanaya]

strong arm fra

 

[Lacku]

"My source is that I made it the **** up!" FRA

Murica great again FRA

changing my vote to funny senator fra

Nah it took Raiden several direct hits to the chest at 5x his normal speed, using a durability negating sword that is better than the usual durability negating sword just to cut deep enough to get to Armstrong's heart. Hulk ain't getting through before he gets put down and his rage power ain't getting him beyond what Armstrong upscales from.
I vote Armstrong

Legweak FRA

strong arm fra

All counted and now we have more than enough votes for grace

 

[Arceus0x]

All counted and now we have more than enough votes for grace

Does Hulk even have a proper wincon here beside AP increase which is basically useless?

 

[Lacku]

Does Hulk even have a proper wincon here beside AP increase which is basically useless?

Hulk could gain the upper hand on Armstrong at the start of the fight as he doesn't have the huge amounts of power he had against Raiden to power his nanomachines. Despite Armstrong's durability, Hulk should also be physically stronger than him as he can one-shot Leviathans that can tank a 47.8 megaton beam with no damage whatsoever, on top of that Hulk can grow stronger with rage. Even though Hulk likely can't kill Armstrong physically even with his AP advantage due to his nanomachines, the fight could end in an inconclusive result as Armstrong would likely struggle to kill Hulk due to him being weaker. It's important to keep in mind that even though Armstrong can keep up with Raiden in combat, Hulk can also brutally overwhelm characters like Thor, who is one of the most skilled fighters in the MCU verse, so Armstrong winning solely based on skill wouldn't be accurate either.

 

[Arceus0x]

Hulk could gain the upper hand on Armstrong at the start of the fight as he doesn't have the huge amounts of power he had against Raiden to power his nanomachines. Despite Armstrong's durability, Hulk should also be physically stronger than him as he can one-shot Leviathans that can tank a 47.8 megaton beam with no damage whatsoever, on top of that Hulk can grow stronger with rage. Even though Hulk likely can't kill Armstrong physically even with his AP advantage due to his nanomachines, the fight could end in an inconclusive result as Armstrong would likely struggle to kill Hulk due to him being weaker. It's important to keep in mind that even though Armstrong can keep up with Raiden in combat, Hulk can also brutally overwhelm characters like Thor, who is one of the most skilled fighters in the MCU verse, so Armstrong winning solely based on skill wouldn't be accurate either.

Armstrong isn't weaker though, he manhandled Raiden in damage output who scales above 67 megatons and Doktor said even a single one of his punches could prove fatal to Raiden, Doktor being a guy who monitors Raiden's body status constantly.
So Armstrong >(near one-shot) Raiden without Murasama > 67 megatoRaiden

He scales higher than Hulk for sure and his defenses are far FAR greater.

 

[Lacku]

Armstrong isn't weaker though, he manhandled Raiden in damage output who scales above 67 megatons and Doktor said even a single one of his punches could prove fatal to Raiden, Doktor being a guy who monitors Raiden's body status constantly.
So Armstrong >(near one-shot) Raiden without Murasama > 67 megatoRaiden

He scales higher than Hulk for sure and his defenses are far FAR greater.

I'd argue, given that scaling chain, Hulk would still be either comparable or stronger than Armstrong, as:

Hulk >(did one-shot) Leviathan >(no-sold with zero damage) 47.8 megaton laser from Iron Man

 

[Arceus0x]

I'd argue, given that scaling chain, Hulk would still be either comparable or stronger than Armstrong, as:

Hulk >(did one-shot) Leviathan >(no-sold with zero damage) 47.8 megaton laser from Iron Man

I mean Armstrong no-sold a slash from Raiden which completely slashed apart the 67 megaton attack

 

[Lacku]

I mean Armstrong no-sold a slash from Raiden which completely slashed apart the 67 megaton attack

My point about Hulk still stands though

 

[Arceus0x]

My point about Hulk still stands though

The problem is the regen and extreme durability which scales above his own AP

 

[Tyranno223]

Armstrong has regen, higher durability, and a better feat to upscale from, plus he's a more skilled fighter.

My vote is for the Senator, and My source? I made it the **** up.

 

[Lacku]

The problem is the regen and extreme durability which scales above his own AP

I agree that's a serious obstacle in Hulks way for him to get the win but that's why I'm saying if there's an outcome where Hulk doesn't lose it'd be incon, which is a condition for him other than just a defeat.

 

[Lacku]

Armstrong has regen, higher durability, and a better feat to upscale from, plus he's a more skilled fighter.

My vote is for the Senator, and My source? I made it the **** up.

Counted

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Don’t **** with this Senator FRA

 

[FireSwordHero]

Not even remotely how it works, especially given in speed equal all attributes are equalized relative to combat speed. Meaning, no, theyre going to work the exact same way as they do in game from the perspective of Raiden and Armstrong. So unless Hulk has a huge speed amp he can whip out, they're not going to be able to be outdone by someone equal to Armstrong's combat speed.

Fair, enough, I'll concede on the speed part. That being said, his nanomachines do have limitations. Mainly in the fact that his nanomachines require absorbing external energy to be fully functional, the resulting energy/time limit duration and the fact that destroying his heart, or even damaging it for that matter, could impair or deactivate the entire process

????
You realize the whole of his body, inside and out, is nano machines, he's literally a claytronic human, outright stated that on a cellular level his body like that (in fact, iirc it's beyond cellular, it's an atomic scale but I'd need to check).

It's literally ONLY his heart that's vulnerable as it serves as the command center, a command center encased completely within his claytronic body.

Unless Hulk can rip it out and crush it or attack it directly, he ain't doing shit.

And mind you, a strong grip from a Cyborg who's incomparably beyond a few million tons in LS.
This argument is blatantly and demonstrably wrong.

And your aruguement is just as wrong as well, because your arguement implies that Armstrong becomes invulnerable to the point where its a losing fight for the hulk. The hardening only makes him more durable, not invincible. And the hulk can GET STRONGER. Even if we were to lowball the potential increase in strenth and assume that hulk only reaches the high end of 7B, which is 100 megatons, that would still put him above Armstrong's 63 megaton feat. Once Hulk rages up, Armstrong's body becomes just as vulerable to being damaged as any other person, and with his heart being his weakpoint, all Hulk needs is one good hit to the chest for Armstrong's heart to be impaired or outright destroyed. And he doesn't need to even rip it out to get the one, a sufficient strike from the outside would suffice to crush the heart from the outside.

Also I've never seen any guides or fact books that suggest that Armstrong's internal organs can harden the same way as his skin does. That being said, I'm willing to concede if im wrong here, but this doesn't change or affect my arguement.

Also Hulk's LS can get higher as well with rage, so I don't think the LS advanatage is as great as you think it might be.

Reminder Armstrong has heat manip above Hulk's listed res, as it can burn Raiden who can facetank plasma. And the fact knocking out Hulk is a viable and canonical win condition.

Fair enough, I still think Hulk wins this.