Valiant_Abyss
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Grace IG.
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Prime Odin Scales above Hela who casually swatted away one of the fastest attacks in the verse (from awakened thor)Why is he faster
Ah just in AP got it, let me fix thatSurtur doesn't scale above Hela in speed.
So because we don't see him doing anything else means he can't do anything else or won't? Also no, the runes need to be casted in advance, it doesn't take 10 seconds to set them up.It takes 10 seconds to set them up. Odin doesn’t do anything but shoot lasers every single time he fights.
That's the point. They have at least one weakness it's possible to exploit so they can be beaten or at least make the fight interesting. It's like with Gilgamesh from Fate being a simply good close-combat fighter whereas other Servants are excellent and being a ridiculously arrogant jerk who would rather die than going all-out to balance the fact that he's so disgustingly powerful it's just absurd.I mean …… Dorm exists and his only “weakness” is getting fed up with killing the same guy for a century. IG Thanos’ was closing his hand but he just beat up everyone anyway.
Sorry but where exactly is it stated that Thanos alone is stronger than Surtur? Cause the last I checked, I've never red that anywhere.Not really, the runes were set up before Wanda started pouring her power into Agatha who wasn’t doing anything by that point besides flying (which was a spell already in effect) and the absorption (which is passive). Odin will be aware runes are being placed but since he can’t read minds, he won’t actually know what’s going on until they are basically done, which only takes 10 seconds (from their MHS+ perspective) anyway.
Again, where exactly is stated/shown/said that Thanos without stones is above Surt in terms of raw strength? Cause I have GIGANTIC doubts about him being stronger than the Fire Giant that destroyed Asgard with one strike and treated Hulk as even more as a mosquitoe bite than Thanos himself did. Sorry but this, I just can't believe unless there's absolute statement about Thanos > Surtur.Not really a large margin at all. Thanos just walking around boxing people up is considered the greatest threat the Avengers ever faced which makes him > Surtur and Hela who Odin scales to in AP. Wanda > Thanos. Thanos is also stated to have “incomparable strength” when bullying Hulk in IW. Not saying he scales above the likes of Dormhe doesbut given the people he is butchering in that moment were all there to witness Hela and Surtur, context dictates that Thanos > them.
Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.Why is he faster when his only scaling is either against peeps that Phase 2 Thor can fight or to Hela who Ragnarok Thor kept up with. The IW novel has base Thanos blitzing that Thor and beating him up before he could react or do anything. Wanda = Thanos in speed. Also why can’t she blitz with her powers when she did it to Agatha who is equal in speed normally? 4:40
And Odin can just keep moving his laser towards her. Plus im pretty sure shes been shown to try and block/contest attacks at time.Except Wanda just …… dodges whatever he sends her way.
10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.It takes 10 seconds to set them up. Odin doesn’t do anything but shoot lasers every single time he fights.
The Avengers never faced full powered Surtur, Thor didnt fight him and Hulk hit him once which barely staggered him.Not really a large margin at all. Thanos just walking around boxing people up is considered the greatest threat the Avengers ever faced which makes him > Surtur and Hela who Odin scales to in AP. Wanda > Thanos. Thanos is also stated to have “incomparable strength” when bullying Hulk in IW. Not saying he scales above the likes of Dormhe doesbut given the people he is butchering in that moment were all there to witness Hela and Surtur, context dictates that Thanos > them.
Thor was keeping up with her fine in the throne room. He couldn't beat her because she was too strong, not cause she was worlds faster than him. Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.
Agatha scales to the same speed feat as Odin.10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.
Dunno, though he did catch Storm Breaker once.Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?
And Thanos is stated to be move faster than Thor believed possible. That means he is even faster than Hela so Odin at best is relative to Hela. Thanos caught Stormbreaker from behind. That’s a better feat than Hela catching the hammer she clearly say coming her way.Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.
And she just teleports. Odin also doesn’t shoot a continuous beam, he shoots single blasts.And Odin can just keep moving his laser towards her. Plus im pretty sure shes been shown to try and block/contest attacks at time.
10 secs of cinematic timing. That’s why I said it’s 10 secs from their MHS+ perspective.10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.
“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.The Avengers never faced full powered Surtur, Thor didnt fight him and Hulk hit him once which barely staggered him.
You are ignoring the fact that it’s an omniscient narrator saying Thanos > anything they have faced before and that his strength is “incomparable”.None of them actually fought him, only 2 Avengers actually saw him (One was Hulk) and all they saw from him was one attack directly after he was revived which one shot Hela and Asgard.
Yes. Prove he will do any of the other stuff in a fight. Or else I can just say Wanda plot manips Odin from the start. I don’t because she doesn’t do that. In character exists for a reason so stop repeating your claims and prove them.So because we don't see him doing anything else means he can't do anything else or won't?
Everything needs to be set up in advance but Wanda just threw her TK in the aerial fight with Agatha and set up the runes just like that. It only took time because it had to travel to the barrier of the town.Also no, the runes need to be casted in advance, it doesn't take 10 seconds to set them up.
Those aren’t weaknesses? Dorm’s isn’t anyway. Strange just outlasted Dorm’s patience. That’s like saying Thanos overpowering Hulk means overpowering Hulk is a weakness for Hulk. The closing the hand is a weakness of the Gauntlet, not Thanos.That's the point. They have at least one weakness it's possible to exploit so they can be beaten or at least make the fight interesting.
Imagine thinking Gilgamesh could lose, zashu.It's like with Gilgamesh from Fate being a simply good close-combat fighter whereas other Servants are excellent and being a ridiculously arrogant jerk who would rather die than going all-out to balance the fact that he's so disgustingly powerful it's just absurd.
Lemme go find the scan. I’ll edit them back into this post when I do.Sorry but where exactly is it stated that Thanos alone is stronger than Surtur? Cause the last I checked, I've never red that anywhere.
Again, where exactly is stated/shown/said that Thanos without stones is above Surt in terms of raw strength? Cause I have GIGANTIC doubts about him being stronger than the Fire Giant that destroyed Asgard with one strike and treated Hulk as even more as a mosquitoe bite than Thanos himself did. Sorry but this, I just can't believe unless there's absolute statement about Thanos > Surtur.
No, he made him flinch his head for a sec and then Surtur just grabbed him with his fingers and threw him away like he was nothing because he was only phazed by this. Just like he was barely phazed by Hela impaling him with large spikes and Hela > Awakened Thor who overpowered Hulk.“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.
Yeah, in-character exists and THIS IS in character for Odin to do that because we're talking about prime Odin, a ruthless tyrant and conqueror who established a gigantic empire through violent wars and his objective was to win. This is totally in-character for him to do that. And even after that, his objective was to rpotect the Nine Realms and he's ready to do everything toachieve this so this is in-character in every case.Yes. Prove he will do any of the other stuff in a fight. Or else I can just say Wanda plot manips Odin from the start. I don’t because she doesn’t do that. In character exists for a reason so stop repeating your claims and prove them.
Where is it said that Wanda made the runes out of thin air in a second like this?Everything needs to be set up in advance but Wanda just threw her TK in the aerial fight with Agatha and set up the runes just like that. It only took time because it had to travel to the barrier of the town.
Hum, yes these are weaknesses and that's the point. Wanda being a glass cannon is her weakness so she isn't an Anos-like character who simply runs over everything.Those aren’t weaknesses? Dorm’s isn’t anyway. Strange just outlasted Dorm’s patience. That’s like saying Thanos overpowering Hulk means overpowering Hulk is a weakness for Hulk. The closing the hand is a weakness of the Gauntlet, not Thanos.
Ok. I'm willing to accept this but on the condition of having a clear basis for it.Lemme go find the scan. I’ll edit them back into this post when I do.
I’m fine with dropping this since we interpret the scene differently.No, he made him flinch his head for a sec and then Surtur just grabbed him with his fingers and threw him away like he was nothing.
No, no it isn’t. You haven’t proved anything. Just said that Odin is an ape in his Prime and started a bunch of wars. This doesn’t mean he disintegrates people in fights. We see him in two fights and this never happens.Yeah, in-character exists and THIS IS in character for Odin to do that because we're talking about prime Odin, a ruthless tyrant and conqueror who established a gigantic empire through violent wars and his objective was to win. This is totally in-character for him to do that. And even after that, his objective was to rpotect the Nine Realms and he's ready to do everything toachieve this so this is in-character in every case.
It isn’t. We see her getting slapped around and trying multiple ways of beating Agatha and all of them failing. It isn’t until the aerial battle where we see Wanda sending her blasts out there and then once the smoke clears, the runes are revealed. Wanda doesn’t interact with the barrier prior to this besides opening it to let people out where we can she is focused on doing that specifically. No runes being drawn or appearing on the very visible barriers in the background.Where is it said that Wanad made the runes out of thin air in a second like this? And even then, it took time to take effects and this is more than enough for Odin, who has a superior AP, to deal with her.
I mean we see her tanking her own blast so I dunno what to tell you.Hum, yes these are weaknesses and that's the point. Wanda being a glass cannon is her weakness so she isn't an Anos-like character who simply runs over everything.
Linked the scan above. Narrator says Thanos has incomparable strength when he is overpowering and beating down Hulk.Ok. I'm willing to accept this but on the condition of having a clear basis for it.
Don't what to say to you other than what I said earlier. And for me, a bloodthirsty tyrant seeking to conquer realms and establish an empire to dominate the universe (sort of) is exactly the type of character I think about when I hear "has the power to desintegrate bodies".I’m fine with dropping this since we interpret the scene differently.
No, no it isn’t. You haven’t proved anything. Just said that Odin is an ape in his Prime and started a bunch of wars. This doesn’t mean he disintegrates people in fights. We see him in two fights and this never happens.
Have to rewatch the episode to be sure honestly, the series give us the impression the runes must be set up in advance.It isn’t. We see her getting slapped around and trying multiple ways of beating Agatha and all of them failing. It isn’t until the aerial battle where we see Wanda sending her blasts out there and then once the smoke clears, the runes are revealed. Wanda doesn’t interact with the barrier prior to this besides opening it to let people out where we can she is focused on doing that specifically. No runes being drawn or appearing on the very visible barriers in the background.
True. Don't know what to think about this either.I mean we see her tanking her own blast so I dunno what to tell you.
Anos Wanda will appear in MoM
Incomparable strength doesn't mean the strongest. Thanos is clearly in the top group but that doesn't mean he's above everything else. Plus, the Avengers never fought Surtur at his full power. Hulk was the only one who attacked him and it barely phazed him and Thor knew it wasn't even worth to try (that and he probably didn't want him to focus on them and more on destroying Asgard and Hela along with him).Linked the scan above. Narrator says Thanos has incomparable strength when he is overpowering and beating down Hulk.
Cause why wouldnt he? It was a weapon that was being used against him and he moved to catch Storm Breaker.Thor was keeping up with her fine in the throne room. He couldn't beat her because she was too strong, not cause she was worlds faster than him. Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?
Ill admit to Thanos being faster than Hela, I misremembered the scene which is my bad.And Thanos is stated to be move faster than Thor believed possible. That means he is even faster than Hela so Odin at best is relative to Hela.
I dont see why this is a more impressive feat, he caught it coming back and it seemed slower coming back vs when its originally thrown.Thanos caught Stormbreaker from behind. That’s a better feat than Hela catching the hammer she clearly say coming her way.
I mean id say she was clearly faster, however I was wrong about how much faster she was.Don’t misrepresent the Thor vs Hela fight. He had Loki bring back Surtur cuz she was stronger than them and wouldn’t die as long as Asgard still existed. Surtur is both stronger than Hela and was able to destroy Asgard. Speed wasn’t the issue when Thor already kept up with her and tagged her.
He shoots a longer beam against the Frost Giants in the first movie iirc, tho ill need to watch it to confirm (Unfortunately we didnt see much from the fight)And she just teleports. Odin also doesn’t shoot a continuous beam, he shoots single blasts.
You right my Bad10 secs of cinematic timing. That’s why I said it’s 10 secs from their MHS+ perspective.
Yes barely staggered but you already dropped it.“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.
Wasnt hat referring to the Avengers? I took that as the team as a whole not each individual member, plus Thor didnt even fight FP SurturYou are ignoring the fact that it’s an omniscient narrator saying Thanos > anything they have faced before and that his strength is “incomparable”.
The stuff we’ve been going as nauseum the whole time.Snip
Oxford, Dictionary.com, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Collins again, Vocabulary.com, Macmillan.Incomparable strength doesn't mean the strongest. Thanos is clearly in the top group but that doesn't mean he's above everything else.
Doesn’t matter. Omniscient narrator says Thanos is incomparable and Thanos doesn’t have a single antifeat since he spends his time bullying everything he sees.Plus, the Avengers never fought Surtur at his full power. Hulk was the only one who attacked him and it barely phazed him and Thor knew it wasn't even worth to try (that and he probably didn't want him to focus on them and more on destroying Asgard and Hela along with him).
It’s fine. I misremember stuff all the time. Happens to all of us.Ill admit to Thanos being faster than Hela, I misremembered the scene which is my bad.
Odin specifically sent a whole army of Valkyries to stall Hela when she was going to escape from Helheim iirc. Him being faster than her is a really weird thing to argue when it’s never stated and actually implied to be the opposite.I dont see why that makes Odin relative to Hela, has Thor really scene his father go all out in a fight? Iirc Odin didnt fight nearly as much after Thor was born.
Is Stormbreaker being called to Thor’s hand from Norway not the fastest MHS+ feat we have? Thanos turned and caught it mid flight while it was meters from his chest.I dont see why this is a more impressive feat, he caught it coming back and it seemed slower coming back vs when its originally thrown.
Oh yeah, forgot that myself though the beam only lasts 2 seconds or smth. Honestly, Anthony Hopkins is the biggest waste in the MCU. They really had him give goated performances in the first but leave Odin do nothing cool in fights. Actually makes me wanna cry.He shoots a longer beam against the Frost Giants in the first movie iirc, tho ill need to watch it to confirm (Unfortunately we didnt see much from the fight)
Not really. It just says Thanos is incomparable in strength and given that this is given minutes after the Revengers witness Surtur nuke Asgard in a swing, I don’t see how one can logically argue against Thanos being stronger even if it’s within the context of Hulk and Thor’s knowledge.Wasnt hat referring to the Avengers? I took that as the team as a whole not each individual member, plus Thor didnt even fight FP Surtur
For me it's this Agatha being equal to speed with Odin, that drastically changes the fight imo. Wanda has indeed somewhat blitzed Agatha and been able to teleport out of her sight and mind hax her which doesn't bode well for Odin. I will say while wielding Gungnir Odin has used the bifrost to take other warriors(thor and co) out of dangerous situation just by raising his hand so I don't doubt he'll do the same if things get hectic with Wanda. I personally feel like this match very much relies on whether Odin can catch Wanda off guard from being out of sight, unlike her Odin would be aware of her at all times unlike the other way around where one of Wanda's biggest weaknesses is not being able to defend against threats she's unaware ofAgatha scales to the same speed feat as Odin.
If this happened, Odin should honestly nuke the field with the Bifrost. He'll see everything happening and choosing to go into a killbox when he has a perfect out is beyond stupid. At least when he doesn't use his hax, he still has the very viable alternative shoot, stab, kill to deal with his enemies,even if its not as efficient.If Odin backs away using the Bifrost Wanda can prep her own battle area by dropping a hex and applying runes kilometers worth of distance as Odin escaping anything dangerous would have to be temporary because he would know he'd have no other choice but to deal with her before she dictates the battlefield which would end up being all of surrounding areas which would lead into Wanda having an advantage either way since she has more options while Odin's win con is overpowering her or getting her off guard before
Then if we go that way, we can also say he's stronger than Dormammu because "his force is incomparable". Sorry but this is too vague to make me buy Thanos being stronger than an Asgard-destroying fire giant treating Hulk like a bug and being so far above Hela who is herself stronger than Awakened Thor when even fat Thor is capable of forcing him to put some efforts to bury Stormbreaker in his body.Oxford, Dictionary.com, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Collins again, Vocabulary.com, Macmillan.
For transparency, Collins does a definition for incomparable that means the word is for emphasis but given all of the other sources that define the word as being beyond measure, peak etc as evidenced by the synonyms for the definitions, it’s fairly clear that the usage of the word means that Thanos is superior to Surtur.
Doesn’t matter. Omniscient narrator says Thanos is incomparable and Thanos doesn’t have a single antifeat since he spends his time bullying everything he sees.
Yeah I'd think so too with no other options other than going in I can see Odin's last attempt being weaponizing the the bifrost and using it instead to level the fields and deal with WandaIf this happened, Odin should honestly nuke the field with the Bifrost. He'll see everything happening and choosing to go into a killbox when he has a perfect out is beyond stupid. At least when he doesn't use his hax, he still has the very viable alternative shoot, stab, kill to deal with his enemies,even if its not as efficient.
Honestly same I can't say one will use the other first or say who will make a move to get their big attack or wincon off first so I'll Vote InconThis Vs thread proves why the MCU had to first weaken Odin with old age, have him asleep or missing for large parts of it and then eventually kill him off (he breaks the narrative lol!).
Either way I'm voting incon since both have insta win cons and it's heavily subjective on who will use it first (or they just hax each other simultaneously).
Thanos > Drax knives > Stranger's shield > immediate output of Dormammu but peeps tend to get mad when I say this. Stay mad lolThen if we go that way, we can also say he's stronger than Dormammu because "his force is incomparable".
Thanos did this so it doesn't mean much. Thanos tanks the same energies that Hulk resists (but still cripples him and makes him pass out from pain) no diff. Don't recall Surtur crippling a weaker Hulk for life.Sorry but I can't buy Thanos being stronger than an Asgard-destroying fire giant treating Hulk like a bug
Fat Thor > IW Thor > Awakened Thor.and being so far above Hela who is herself stronger than Awakened Thor when even fat Thor is capable of forcing him to put some efforts to bury Stormbreaker in his body.
It helps outside of this. Obviously it won't be of any good against wincons. In a regular fight though, it will.How does superior fighting skills help if they both have instant wincons?
Please, tell me you're just trolling about that....Fat Thor > IW Thor > Awakened Thor.
This is something I'm hoping for as well it'd be cool to see Odin do some crazy stuff even just in What If or some kind of statements and flashbacks to/for Odin in Love and ThunderMaybe if MCU Animations do well (And they remain canon) we could see some young Odin stuff, either his fight with Surtur or him as a warlord/conqueror with Hopkins as the VA (Hopefully). At least id love to see that.
If only...Maybe if MCU Animations do well (And they remain canon) we could see some young Odin stuff, either his fight with Surtur or him as a warlord/conqueror with Hopkins as the VA (Hopefully). At least id love to see that.
Maybe Zeus does some crazy shit and we get a comparison to Odin or something.This is something I'm hoping for as well it'd be cool to see Odin do some crazy stuff even just in What If or some kind of statements and flashbacks to/for Odin in Love and Thunder
I said Wanda FRA. Not OdinGrace again