Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade

[Unqver]

Ahh i see. Oh well when you do be sure to invite me

Of course

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with High 1-B.

 

[Unqver]

I agree with High 1-B.

okay

 

[Georredannea15]

We need some more tier 1 experts here. Can anyone tag DT or Ultima?

 

[StrymULTRA]

We need some more tier 1 experts here. Can anyone tag DT or Ultima?

No. This CRT is poor af and OP can barely explain himself.

 

[Phoenks]

I can tag them, however, I really think the wiki should learn to be less reliant on those two. Every thread shouldn't need them specifically to comment on it.

I also think that you particularly should stop trying to imitate them on threads, it's pretty annoying..

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa

If you have time, evaluation would be appreciated, I suppose. Though, this thread is quite messy.

@Qawsedf234 do you also have any further comments ? The OP list you as disagree but I'm unsure if you actually have a proper opinion.

 

[Georredannea15]

Btw Qawsedf has already touched on his points. He explained at length above.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Btw Qawsedf has already touched on his points. He explained at length above.

Did he saw Shiva and Jinsye's explanations about the OP's arguments tho? he saw only the OP i think.

 

[Jinsye]

Unrelated, if High 1-B isn't accepted, then Null Magical Girl is probably Low 1-C at minimum.

Until now, I was bound by the timeline. No matter how far I
moved into the past and future, I was nothing more than an
insect crawling on the dimension of time. But now I am
transcending time!

With all my strength, I push in the direction of super-time and
rise above 2021.

I know that there is a tremendous existence there. It's a
thread—countless versions of 2021, thousands of variations
of my corpses, being pulled and rolled up into a spinning
spool.

Here, Kosane pretty directly transcends time and reaches the level of 'supertime', reaching a level beyond the normal state of the timeline of events.

At this point, she can battle Eruna, and time becomes more of an object to her over an actual dimension.

The threads billow violently; the year 2021 is unraveling.
Unwound time shimmers and then gathers and intertwines
with itself. Countless threads of time are connected, bound
together into a time fabric.

The threads of time, dyed by my blood and corpses, are
woven together. Reddish-black threads covered in gore and
death overlap. The seemingly infinite number of threads are
tied together to form a jet-black fabric that is darker than
any night, and deeper than any emptiness.

The cloth flits through the air as if with intention. It rushes to
Eruna and adheres itself to her pure white robe, then
intricately weaves itself into a three-dimensional form.

A dress— a dress of super-time. Eruna dons the dress of
2021, dyed with my blood and death. Softly, the dress sways.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok, Ok, Ok.

If this UNIRONICALLY keeps going on, I'll have to step in.

My problem with this CRT is that it's extremely poorly formatter, and uses spams of untranslated japanese scans to get the point across, and the worst part is that OP barely explains his point, using random information that doesn't really fit with the conversation/information required. A CRT of this magnitude shouldn't have happened with such a poor explanation, and the fact that the ACTUAL explanations were made mid-thread (I ain't bothering to search those lol) makes this even worse.

This is just not the time to make this CRT, verse is horribly outdated and the God Tiers rely a lot on the state of the lower ones, and even that's kinda... bad. This is just a result of a really rushed man who can't wait, as the plan to update the verse was very clear already, but he decided to ignore anyway, ending up in this mess.

I am not asking to accept or reject the CRT, just to put in hold so the ACTUAL revisions happen first, and then this comes later.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Ok, Ok, Ok.

If this UNIRONICALLY keeps going on, I'll have to step in.

My problem with this CRT is that it's extremely poorly formatter, and uses spams of untranslated japanese scans to get the point across, and the worst part is that OP barely explains his point, using random information that doesn't really fit with the conversation/information required. A CRT of this magnitude shouldn't have happened with such a poor explanation, and the fact that the ACTUAL explanations were made mid-thread (I ain't bothering to search those lol) makes this even worse.

This is just not the time to make this CRT, verse is horribly outdated and the God Tiers rely a lot on the state of the lower ones, and even that's kinda... bad. This is just a result of a really rushed man who can't wait, as the plan to update the verse was very clear already, but he decided to ignore anyway, ending up in this mess.

I am not asking to accept or reject the CRT, just to put in hold so the ACTUAL revisions happen first, and then this comes later.

No.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Ok, Ok, Ok.

If this UNIRONICALLY keeps going on, I'll have to step in.

My problem with this CRT is that it's extremely poorly formatter, and uses spams of untranslated japanese scans to get the point across, and the worst part is that OP barely explains his point, using random information that doesn't really fit with the conversation/information required. A CRT of this magnitude shouldn't have happened with such a poor explanation, and the fact that the ACTUAL explanations were made mid-thread (I ain't bothering to search those lol) makes this even worse.

This is just not the time to make this CRT, verse is horribly outdated and the God Tiers rely a lot on the state of the lower ones, and even that's kinda... bad. This is just a result of a really rushed man who can't wait, as the plan to update the verse was very clear already, but he decided to ignore anyway, ending up in this mess.

I am not asking to accept or reject the CRT, just to put in hold so the ACTUAL revisions happen first, and then this comes later.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay, on a serious note: This thread is over 8 pages long and I am absolutely not reading all that. Can anyone point me to a summary of the relevant evidence, or something of the like?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Okay, on a serious note: This thread is over 8 pages long and I am absolutely not reading all that. Can anyone point me to a summary of the relevant evidence, or something of the like?

Jins read the novel, and she explained her interpretation here.

Null Magical Girl is a really weird and messy story that barely fits within the world of PMMM but I took a read through it to try and make some sense of it.

Trying to cut out everything besides the tiers stuff, the main quote is this.



So, from this quote. It's pretty clear that the tetrahedron is some kind of a 'gateway' to this train station, also known as the Time Railroad. Eruna refers to the tetrahedron as the 'ticket' into the time railroad so to speak.

Once she properly folds it, she starts to fall through reality itself, as dictated by the 'scaffolding', and once she finishes she reaches the Time Railroad. This Railroad is used as a transportation method throughout all of time.


Now, what is the Time Railroad exactly? It's kind of really vague and unclear, but from what we can get from the novel, it seems to be a system built by Homo magica (the evolved version of magical girls) that underlies all of time.


So, all of these points in the timeline are connected through reality via the Time Railroad that Homo magica have built. This time railroad stretches along infinitely, with infinite paths into the future and the past.


Note the "infinite trains with infinite routes", which is what I believe to be the author trying to express how the structure under the train can go through all of the infinite layers of reality. After all, this system underlies an infinite set of layers that underlie reality it seems, so it makes sense that a train that can travel through all of time could travel through every layer of reality.

At some point, Kosane (the main protagonist) undergoes an explosion that allows her to "fuse with the time railroad", and allows her to access every single point in time at once.


Here, it says she escapes the grasp of the three-dimensional world. Not necessarily High 1-B, but it's evidence that the time railroad is beyond our normal reality.

So it's my belief that the Time Railroad underlies all of reality as 'time' (or the 4th dimension so to speak), but the overall size of 'time' is much larger than 4-D in a way. As entering into the time railroad causes one to fall through an infinite amount of layers of reality. The time railroad is then noted to have an infinite amount of routes and infinite amount of trains, which is equivalent to the infinite layers required to get to the time railroad in the first place. This means there's an infinite amount of 'time layers' so to speak. Which can be construed as High 1-B.

This is all my interpretation though. I'd recommend you read Null Magical Girl yourself if you want an informed opinion, it's only 170 pages and has an English translation available with a short google. I don't have a strong opinion on the tiering itself, but I was just hoping that maybe my interpretation could provide some clarity.

Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade

Agnaa has already said it won't be QS. Qawsedf also disagreed... And as long as you don't have a context like in DC. "And given that DC is no longer at H1B or higher" Agnaa wasn't arguing that, Agnaa was specifically talking to Shiva about how standards work, not whether or not this verse...

vsbattles.com

 

[KingNanaya]

Okay, on a serious note: This thread is over 8 pages long and I am absolutely not reading all that. Can anyone point me to a summary of the relevant evidence, or something of the like?

Null Magical Girl is a really weird and messy story that barely fits within the world of PMMM but I took a read through it to try and make some sense of it.

Trying to cut out everything besides the tiers stuff, the main quote is this.



So, from this quote. It's pretty clear that the tetrahedron is some kind of a 'gateway' to this train station, also known as the Time Railroad. Eruna refers to the tetrahedron as the 'ticket' into the time railroad so to speak.

Once she properly folds it, she starts to fall through reality itself, as dictated by the 'scaffolding', and once she finishes she reaches the Time Railroad. This Railroad is used as a transportation method throughout all of time.


Now, what is the Time Railroad exactly? It's kind of really vague and unclear, but from what we can get from the novel, it seems to be a system built by Homo magica (the evolved version of magical girls) that underlies all of time.


So, all of these points in the timeline are connected through reality via the Time Railroad that Homo magica have built. This time railroad stretches along infinitely, with infinite paths into the future and the past.


Note the "infinite trains with infinite routes", which is what I believe to be the author trying to express how the structure under the train can go through all of the infinite layers of reality. After all, this system underlies an infinite set of layers that underlie reality it seems, so it makes sense that a train that can travel through all of time could travel through every layer of reality.

At some point, Kosane (the main protagonist) undergoes an explosion that allows her to "fuse with the time railroad", and allows her to access every single point in time at once.


Here, it says she escapes the grasp of the three-dimensional world. Not necessarily High 1-B, but it's evidence that the time railroad is beyond our normal reality.

So it's my belief that the Time Railroad underlies all of reality as 'time' (or the 4th dimension so to speak), but the overall size of 'time' is much larger than 4-D in a way. As entering into the time railroad causes one to fall through an infinite amount of layers of reality. The time railroad is then noted to have an infinite amount of routes and infinite amount of trains, which is equivalent to the infinite layers required to get to the time railroad in the first place. This means there's an infinite amount of 'time layers' so to speak. Which can be construed as High 1-B.

This is all my interpretation though. I'd recommend you read Null Magical Girl yourself if you want an informed opinion, it's only 170 pages and has an English translation available with a short google. I don't have a strong opinion on the tiering itself, but I was just hoping that maybe my interpretation could provide some clarity.

It's not only a downward hierarchy, actually there's a downward hierarchy which are inside the tetrahedron and outside there are a upward hierarchy which creates infinitely many more layers just like the downward hierarchy. So it's not limited to a downward hierarchy.

I think these are the most relevant posts so far

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Okay, on a serious note: This thread is over 8 pages long and I am absolutely not reading all that. Can anyone point me to a summary of the relevant evidence, or something of the like?

Aside from OP

Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade

Agnaa has already said it won't be QS. Qawsedf also disagreed... And as long as you don't have a context like in DC. "And given that DC is no longer at H1B or higher" Agnaa wasn't arguing that, Agnaa was specifically talking to Shiva about how standards work, not whether or not this verse...

vsbattles.com

Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade

What I'm saying is that it's not the difference between the layers, it's the difference between the tetrahedron and Madoka that is infinite. Urobuchi Gen once said that Madoka's consciousness can reshape the entire worldview. The worldview includes a regular tetrahedron.

vsbattles.com

 

[Georredannea15]

Okay, on a serious note: This thread is over 8 pages long and I am absolutely not reading all that. Can anyone point me to a summary of the relevant evidence, or something of the like?

Alr

These are arguments ;

Here, Here, here and OP itself (Other arguments are same more or less)


Counter arguments ;

Here, here, here and here (There are a few extra ones)

 

[Unqver]

Alr

These are arguments ;

Here, Here, hereand OP itself(Other arguments are same more or less)


Counter arguments ;

Here, here, hereandhere

It's interesting that Madoka never appeared in the entire null Magic girl article, and I don't know how you connected the two together

 

[marosuke]

I find something from the first scan. "It looks like this letter is a three-dimensional slice of a four-dimensional structure."
raw text:この手紙は、四次元構造体の三次元切片にあたるようだね
In brief, this infinite hierarchy thing happened in the 4D structure as far as I see.
and I don't know what it means. I hope this helps.

 

[Leafbladie]

Since the Time Railroad has infinite routes through time, can't it be desrcibed as having infinite time axes?

 

[Unqver]

Since the Time Railroad has infinite routes through time, can't it be desrcibed as having infinite time axes?

In fact, in the description of the time Railway, the content is respectively "infinite past and infinite future", which is described separately from the infinite route, and the description of the time axis is mentioned later, which is "infinite" and "no number limit".

 

[Unqver]

In fact, in the description of the time Railway, the content is respectively "infinite past and infinite future", which is described separately from the infinite route, and the description of the time axis is mentioned later, which is "infinite" and "no number limit".

 

[Shadowbeast]

Since the Time Railroad has infinite routes through time, can't it be desrcibed as having infinite time axes?

It could. The novel mentions that her bullet travels between a timeline where its events cannot be connected by a temporal sequence, the bullets then breaks and is soon erased. Then the novel mentions that infinite threads of time are connected and bound together by the time fabric.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Since the Time Railroad has infinite routes through time, can't it be desrcibed as having infinite time axes?

In fact, in the description of the time Railway, the content is respectively "infinite past and infinite future", which is described separately from the infinite route, and the description of the time axis is mentioned later, which is "infinite" and "no number limit".

It could. The novel mentions that her bullet travels between a timeline where its events cannot be connected by a temporal sequence, the bullets then breaks and is soon erased. Then the novel mentions that infinite threads of time are connected and bound together by the time fabric.

All this is way too vague to even mean infinite time axes. (and a lot can easily just mean being able to travel to infinite points in time)

 

[Shadowbeast]

Still, this answers what Qawsedf mentioned earlier about it not limiting the structure. The dimension of time connects and bound together the infinite hierarchical temporal layers, with both the upward and the downard hierarchy within itself, with the higher layer being boundlessly large in comparasion with the infinitesimally small lower layer. And the higher layer seeing the structures of the lower layer as a simple dot. It is clear that the overall size of "time" is way, way larger than 4-D.

 

[Georredannea15]

Still, this answers what Qawsedf mentioned earlier about it not limiting the structure. The dimension of time connects and bound together the infinite hierarchical temporal layers, with both the upward and and downard hierarchy within itself. With the higher layer seeing the structures of the lower layer as a simple dot. It is clear that the overall size of "time" is way, way larger than 4-D.

Lmao, who told you that? Time only moves in a certain direction. Time is always infinite and this time and infinite fall is happening in 4-D

And it's not a simple "5th dimension" like in DC or something like that with an unknown axis. In this case, it means that it has 4 spatial and geometric dimensions directly for a 4 dimensional structure, and you can't physically fit higher hierarchies and things like that into a structure that has 4 spatial dimensions. If you do that you contradict the series and yourself.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

(i am neutral on high 1-B rn btw since my tiny brain cant handle the other arguments brought forth by jinsye and shiva)

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Honestly... The "infinitely falling" from a 4th dimensional structure just doesn't make any sense imo. So i likely won't agree on it anymore but i still wait for further clarification coz after taking an understanding of the situation... It seems something else ngl.

 

[Reiner04]

After reading 8 pages of mess I agree fr.

 

[Robo432343]

I agree with reiner

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree with reiner

I did first

 

[Georredannea15]

(i am neutral on high 1-B rn btw since my tiny brain cant handle the other arguments brought forth by jinsye and shiva)

Damn...

 

[marosuke]

Can infinite hierarchy or dimension exist in the four-dimensional structure?
In my interpretation, she could not resist 4D hax/HDE.
Im assuming her perspective is three-dimensional, so inside the four-dimensional structure looked infinite hierarchy.
Did I misread or Is Kyubey lying?

And infinite time axis sounds rather low 1-C, if that is valid.

 

[Georredannea15]

Can infinite hierarchy or dimension exist in the four-dimensional structure?

No, if this four-dimensional structure is spatiality/physical 4-D like here.

In my interpretation, she could not resist 4D hax/HDE.
Im assuming her perspective is three-dimensional, so inside the four-dimensional structure looked infinite hierarchy.
Did I misread or Is Kyubey lying?

And infinite time axis sounds rather low 1-C, if that is valid.

A time axis is already infinite by default. It's not mean an extra- dimensional time axis.

 

[Unqver]

Can infinite hierarchy or dimension exist in the four-dimensional structure?
In my interpretation, she could not resist 4D hax/HDE.
Im assuming her perspective is three-dimensional, so inside the four-dimensional structure looked infinite hierarchy.
Did I misread or Is Kyubey lying?

And infinite time axis sounds rather low 1-C, if that is valid.

In the description of the regular tetrahedron, it is indeed mentioned that the regular tetrahedron forms an infinite hierarchy

 

[marosuke]

In the description of the regular tetrahedron, it is indeed mentioned that the regular tetrahedron forms an infinite hierarchy

Ok before this happens, Kyubey said この手紙は、四次元構造体の三次元切片にあたるようだね
Sounds like he acknowledges this letter/infinite hierarchy/regular tetrahedron as 4D structure.
or is he talking about other thing except these?

 

[Shadowbeast]

Ok before this happens, Kyubey said この手紙は、四次元構造体の三次元切片にあたるようだね
Sounds like he acknowledges this letter/infinite hierarchy/regular tetrahedron as 4D structure.
or is he talking about other thing except these?

Time (or the 4th dimension whatever you want to call it) is way larger than 4-D with its upper and lower hierarchy being made of infinite time layers with a qualitative difference between them. It being bigger than merely 4-D or not is literally the entire debate of this thread to qualify the structure to High 1-B. I would advise that it's better wait for Ultima's response as he is going to evaluate this thread to check the situation here. All the arguments and counter arguments have already been posted and we're just making this thread bigger than it should be.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Time (or the 4th dimension whatever you want to call it) is way larger than 4-D with its upper and lower hierarchy being made of infinite time layers with a qualitative difference between them. It being bigger than merely 4-D or not is literally the entire debate of this thread to qualify the structure to High 1-B. I would advise that it's better wait for Ultima's response as he is going to evaluate this thread to check the situation here. All the arguments and counter arguments have already been posted and we're just making this thread bigger than it should be.

you can`t just rely on ultima for every tier 1 thread, the man is busy

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

What does the tetrahedron means in this context? Isn't it a geometric object made from four triangles with the same size?

And why there is no goddamn citation on the OP?

 

[Unqver]

What does the tetrahedron means in this context? Isn't it a geometric object made from four triangles with the same size?

And why there is no goddamn citation on the OP?

In the original work, the regular tetrahedron is a name for a high-dimensional substance.