Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade (Redux)

[Unqver]

I never said that I don't think the bottom is not the railroad, but you said that the railway is compared to a point in size, but the point may very well just be the "final door" to enter the railway.

I thought it was Madoka who was going through this whole situation, but that doesn't matter.

There is no evidence to prove this, on the contrary, after Kiriha Kosane reached the lowest level, the world with time railways appeared in its entirety, without mentioning the so-called keys or doors

 

[Dog3352]

And by the way, someone just confirmed my translation on this:

Towards the end, I would like to talk about the translated and original text that I didn't take into account, I decided to take the original text and translate it, this was the translation:

A regular tetrahedron arises from an infinitely deep point and goes infinitely far away.
A regular tetrahedron grows from each point on my body. What should have been infinitely small becomes infinitely large, turning me into a dot. A small sound can be heard from far away in the tetrahedral labyrinth covered in blue light.

I translated this part of the original text:

無限に深い点から、正四面体が発生し、無限に遠くへと去っていく。
わたしの体の各点から、正四面体が成長してくる。無限に小さかったはずのそれは無限に大きくなり、わたしを点にする。青い光に覆われた正四面体の迷宮の、はるか遠くから、小さな音が聞こえてくる。

This is the translation used in the comments.

So the "infinitely large and infinitely small" part don't even really exist, which would take away the evidence of a difference in size, or the comparison that one is infinitely larger than the other.

 

[Unqver]

And by the way, someone just confirmed my translation on this: Towards the end, I would like to talk about the translated and original text that I didn't take into account, I decided to take the original text and translate it, this was the translation: I translated this part of the original text: This is the translation used in the comments. So the "infinitely large and infinitely small" part don't even really exist, which would take away the evidence of a difference in size, or the comparison that one is infinitely larger than the other.

But you completely ignored the previous text and the following text. The tetrahedron in the previous text is contained by a larger infinity, continuing the infinite hierarchy. This sentence is the feeling of the protagonist falling from the upper level to the lowest level, and how can it be inferred that the time railway is not at that point? The following text happens to be the protagonist at the time railway station

 

[Robo432343]

I agree with this thread via dogs reasons

 

[Dog3352]

But you completely ignored the previous text and the following text. The tetrahedron in the previous text is contained by a larger infinity, continuing the infinite hierarchy. This sentence is the feeling of the protagonist falling from the upper level to the lowest level, and how can it be inferred that the time railway is not at that point? The following text happens to be the protagonist at the time railway station

What? It is said in the full text that it is descending infinite layers, and then a Tetrahedron appears from the infinite depths, and goes to an infinitely distant place.
Absolutely nowhere does it say that one place is bigger than another, besides saying that the Tetrahedron came from the depths, which means that it came from the bottom of the layers, tell me in which part of the sentence it says that a layer is infinitely bigger than the other.
At best, this would prove that the layers are infinite in size, and this would still be very doubtful, since taking into account the context, the Tetrahedron came from the bottom of the layers/hierarchy (infinite depths), and then went to the top of the layer hierarchy (or to the bottom again). But there is definitely nothing making a size comparison between the layers, much less saying that one is infinitely larger than the other.

 

[Dog3352]

I agree with this thread via dogs reasons

I don't know if that makes sense since I'm opposing the CRT.

 

[Unqver]

What? It is said in the full text that it is descending infinite layers, and then a Tetrahedron appears from the infinite depths, and goes to an infinitely distant place.
Absolutely nowhere does it say that one place is bigger than another, besides saying that the Tetrahedron came from the depths, which means that it came from the bottom of the layers, tell me in which part of the sentence it says that a layer is infinitely bigger than the other.
At best, this would prove that the layers are infinite in size, and this would still be very doubtful, since taking into account the context, the Tetrahedron came from the bottom of the layers/hierarchy (infinite depths), and then went to the top of the layer hierarchy (or to the bottom again). But there is definitely nothing making a size comparison between the layers, much less saying that one is infinitely larger than the other.

【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
You didn't read this paragraph at all, did you?

 

[Dog3352]

And I could be wrong, but wouldn't an infinite number of layers (dimensions or something), one being infinitely larger than the other, make the top (overarching structure) just an uncountable infinity above? And wouldn't that be low 1C?

 

[Unqver]

And I could be wrong, but wouldn't an infinite number of layers (dimensions or something), one being infinitely larger than the other, make the top (overarching structure) just an uncountable infinity above? And wouldn't that be low 1C?

I see some High1-B structures even worse than this description.

 

[Dog3352]

【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
You didn't read this paragraph at all, did you?

What the hell man? There's even this in the OP, as I didn't read it (I literally mentioned it 2-3 times).

Japanese: 【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
English: Within a regular tetrahedron, there are an infinite number of regular tetrahedra, and the outside is surrounded by an infinite number of regular tetrahedra.

That's just the Tetrahedron that exists on paper, the infinite layers, and the other infinite Tetrahedrons that exist on paper (the Tetrahedrons that exist around the regular Tetrahedron that was being described).

 

[Dog3352]

I see some High1-B structures even worse than this description.

So either downgrade or check if this actually scales, since as far as I remember, this is just uncountable infinity (low 1C).

 

[Unqver]

What the hell man? There's even this in the OP, as I didn't read it (I literally mentioned it 2-3 times).

Japanese: 【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
English: Within a regular tetrahedron, there are an infinite number of regular tetrahedra, and the outside is surrounded by an infinite number of regular tetrahedra.

That's just the Tetrahedron that exists on paper, the infinite layers, and the other infinite Tetrahedrons that exist on paper.

Then the following is the infinite stratum that falls infinitely, passing through one layer after another.

 

[Unqver]

So either downgrade or check if this actually scales, since as far as I remember, this is just uncountable infinity (low 1C).

A universe has an infinite number of black holes that can be counted, and through generations of cycles, later civilizations have indeed experienced an infinite past. Moreover, just now all of this was just a tetrahedral gap

 

[Dog3352]

Then the following is the infinite stratum that falls infinitely, passing through one layer after another.

A universe has an infinite number of black holes that can be counted, and through generations of cycles, later civilizations have indeed experienced an infinite past. Moreover, just now all of this was just a tetrahedral gap

The fall is just the infinite layers, no proof of the infinitely superior and much less uncountable superior infinities (I only saw one uncountable infinity).
As said in the OP itself, the infinite hierarchy of layers is compared to a Kaleidoscope, and (whoever it is) is descending through its own Kaleidoscope, you still haven't shown proof that one layer is infinitely or infinitely uncountably superior to another.
And I don't even know what you want to prove with this second comment, you're just talking about an infinite past, which has nothing to do with the size of the spatial dimension.

 

[Unqver]

The fall is just the infinite layers, no proof of the infinitely superior and much less uncountable superior infinities (I only saw one uncountable infinity).
As said in the OP itself, the infinite hierarchy of layers is compared to a Kaleidoscope, and (whoever it is) is descending through its own Kaleidoscope, you still haven't shown proof that one layer is infinitely or infinitely uncountably superior to another .

What else does this thing have to prove? At the very bottom, it is clear that the world of time railways Infinite timeline A universe on a timeline has a countable infinite number of black holes, which can give birth to the universe. Generation after generation, the cycle has gone through an infinite past. This is not an uncountable infinite number of universes. What is it? Then you combine this paragraph again, and below, doesn't it still say that each layer contains tetrahedra? (Including the process is the paragraph I posted)

 

[Dog3352]

What else does this thing have to prove? At the very bottom, it is clear that the world of time railways Infinite timeline A universe on a timeline has a countable infinite number of black holes, which can give birth to the universe. Generation after generation, the cycle has gone through an infinite past. This is not an uncountable infinite number of universes. What is it? Then you combine this paragraph again, and below, doesn't it still say that each layer contains tetrahedra? (Including the process is the paragraph I posted)

I just see a lot of finite difference and timelines, the only thing with infinite difference (countable, not uncountable) is the original Tetrahedron being infinitely larger than the infinite regular Tetrahedra.

 

[Unqver]

I just see a lot of finite difference and timelines, the only thing with infinite difference (countable, not uncountable) is the original Tetrahedron being infinitely larger than the infinite regular Tetrahedra.

影は正四面体のなかに、さらに小さな正四面体を形作った。よくよく見ると、そのさらに内部にも小さな小さな正四面体が見える。
That section is not even a primitive tetrahedron

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

First of all, I would like to apologize for not replying sooner. Second, I also would like to apologize for failing to provide some contexts about the scene I presented for the revision.

Now onto the matters (I'm not really sure about this argument myself so this will be my final argument), while it's true that there isn't any direct statement about each layers being infinitely bigger than the previous one in both the scans I provides and @Dog3352 translations. There is a mention of showing about the existence infinite amounts of tetrahedrons in each layers (within and outside) of the structures. Forgive me, but wouldn't you require to have an infinite size of space to contain an infinite amount of things (I'm aware this is a rather oversimplification of the mathematical term)? The fact that the layers are also in tetrahedron shape should indicates that the upper layers tetrahedrons has to be infinitely bigger than the lower ones.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Forgive me, but wouldn't you require to have an infinite size of space to contain an infinite amount of things? The fact that the layers are also in tetrahedron shape should indicates that the bigger tetrahedrons has to be infinitely bigger than the smaller ones.

I wouldn't say that's enough to establish a dimensional hierarchy. It reads to me like trying to say an infinite 3D space cannot contain infinite amount of infinitely large 3D objects. Of course it can if none of the operation is enough to jump out of Aleph_1. So unless the object in question itself is explicitly said to be so large that it mustn't be contained in 3D realspace, I wouldn't assume otherwise.

At the very bottom, it is clear that the world of time railways Infinite timeline A universe on a timeline has a countable infinite number of black holes, which can give birth to the universe. Generation after generation, the cycle has gone through an infinite past. This is not an uncountable infinite number of universes.

An uncountable infinite number of universes (2-C multiverse) + 2D temporal dimensions (infinite amount of timelines for any given universe I assume?) yields a 6D structure. I suggest you guys end this thread and start a Low 1-C revision if that's all we have here.

 

[Unqver]

I wouldn't say that's enough to establish a dimensional hierarchy. It reads to me like trying to say an infinite 3D space cannot contain infinite amount of infinitely large 3D objects. Of course it can if none of the operation is enough to jump out of Aleph_1. So unless the object in question itself is explicitly said to be so large that it mustn't be contained in 3D realspace, I wouldn't assume otherwise.


An uncountable infinite number of universes (2-C multiverse) + 2D temporal dimensions (infinite amount of timelines for any given universe I assume?) yields a 6D structure. I suggest you guys end this thread and start a Low 1-C revision if that's all we have here.

I still don't quite understand why the timeline is only two-dimensional

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

I still don't quite understand why the timeline is only two-dimensional

Because countably many amount of timelines is really just two dimensional. That being said if railway is established to be a temporal axis, then it'd be countably infinite dimensions. BUT I really just find no indication of that anywhere.

 

[Unqver]

Because coutably many amount of timelines is really just two dimensional. That being said if railway is established to be a temporal axis, then it'd be countably infinite dimensions. BUT I really just find no indication of that anywhere.

Is it possible that the dimension in the book ≠ the normal dimension, such as the blue and whitefour dimension is 1-A

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Is it possible that the dimension in the book ≠ the normal dimension, such as the blue and white dimension is 1-A

Yes, it is possible. To assume this way we need to establish why a lowball assumption wouldn't work.

For example, if we say a railway represents a timeline stretching two ways infinitely, then the lowball assumption of a railway is simply that, it is a timeline (1D line), instead of a temporal axis (uncountably many all other timeline dimensions). So our railway must include how this representation actually branches off and multiplies all other railway in some esoteric manner, if that'd help.

Regarding the tetrahedrons, I don't see discussing the amount of them matters because what's described can easily be achieved, in a math sense, using a fractal dimensional structure that sits strictly below 4D (since 3d object is what we have here). We probably need solid representation of dimensional jump, or even better, a jump in composite hierarchy (for example, each tetrahedron representing an actual plane of existence that is superior to all encompassed smaller tetrahedrons)

 

[Dog3352]

@Dog3352 translations. There is a mention of showing about the existence infinite amounts of tetrahedrons in each layers (within and outside) of the structures. Forgive me, but wouldn't you require to have an infinite size of space to contain an infinite amount of things (I'm aware this is a rather oversimplification of the mathematical term)? The fact that the layers are also in tetrahedron shape should indicates that the upper layers tetrahedrons has to be infinitely bigger than the lower ones.

As I said, even if all layers are infinite in size, there is no evidence that one layer is infinitely larger than the previous one.

 

[Unqver]

Yes, it is possible. To assume this way we need to establish why a lowball assumption wouldn't work.

For example, if we say a railway represents a timeline stretching two ways infinitely, then the lowball assumption of a railway is simply that, it is a timeline (1D line), instead of a temporal axis (uncountably many all other timeline dimensions). So our railway must include how this representation actually branches off and multiplies all other railway in some esoteric manner, if that'd help.

Regarding the tetrahedrons, I don't see discussing the amount of them matters because what's described can easily be achieved, in a math sense, using a fractal dimensional structure that sits strictly below 4D (since 3d objects is what we have here). We probably need solid representation of dimensional jump, or even better, a jump in composite hierarchy (for example, each tetrahedron representing an actual plane of existence that is superior to all encompassed smaller tetrahedrons)

That's just your hypothesis. If the dimension description of a novel is reality and illusory dreams, can it also be checked with reality? In addition,evolve girlsThe eleven dimensions in the book are generally consistent with the description of tetrahedron, and the book even mentions string theory in particular.

 

[Unqver]

As I said, even if all layers are infinite in size, there is no evidence that one layer is infinitely larger than the previous one.

Please read my previous arguments, I don't want to repeat them.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

That's just your hypothesis.

That'd be the site's hypothesis (which is always to go with lowball explanation unless stated to the contrary).

If the dimension description of a novel is reality and illusory dreams, can it also be checked with reality?

No one is checking with reality though; it is just that one is picking a structure that is consistent with reality yet still explains why a lowball guess can satisfy the description.

In addition,evolve girlsThe eleven dimensions in the book are generally consistent with the description of tetrahedron, and the book even mentions string theory in particular.

If eleven dimensions in the book are linked to some layers of tetrahedron, then it's incredibly hard to justify not including any of the description here as it would be the strongest evidence to support the thread.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

We probably need solid representation of dimensional jump, or even better, a jump in composite hierarchy (for example, each tetrahedron representing an actual plane of existence that is superior to all encompassed smaller tetrahedrons)

Isn't this exactly described in the scan though? The top layer tetrahedron encompassed all the lower layers smaller tetrahedrons.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Isn't this exactly described in the scan though? The top layer tetrahedron encompassed all the lower layers smaller tetrahedrons.

But they're just tetrahedrons in the scan? A plane of existence is something explicitly stated to be a reality. Besides you must think of no countionus physical gap between each plane, they have to really be discrete from each other.

 

[Unqver]

But they're just tetrahedrons in the scan? A plane of existence is something explicitly stated to be a reality. Besides you must think of no countionus physical gap between each plane, they have to really be discrete from each other.

I don't want to say anything more. When Kiriha Kosane descended to the lowest tetrahedron, she was already in the time orbit

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

But they're just tetrahedrons in the scan? A plane of existence is something explictly stated to be reality. Besides you must think of no countionus physical gap between each plane, they have to really discrete from each other.

There are realities within the Tetrahedron though. The Train station with the train tracks (which the MC uses to enter specific era in the universe) should be at the very least 4D since the MC later merges with it and stated to "escape the yolk of 3-D".

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

As I said, even if all layers are infinite in size, there is no evidence that one layer is infinitely larger than the previous one.

No direct statement yes, but the way the structure being describes should indicates infinitely size difference though. To contains an infinite amount of tetrahedron in the upper layers, the lower layers must be infinitely smaller than the upper ones. I wish I have an image to describe what I thinks the structure would be.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

There are realities within the Tetrahedron though. The Train station with the train tracks (which the MC uses to enter specific era in the universe) should be at the very least 4D since the MC later merges with it and stated to "escape the yolk of 3-D".

From what I've seen she was looking at The Tetrahedron which is called "a ticket", and she then fell through it to arrive in the time orbit. I think that's all we have here. I am almost sure if that's not actually indicative of any plane of existence being inside a sub-tetrahedron during her process of falling down.

I don't want to say anything more. When Kiriha Kosane descended to the lowest tetrahedron, she was already in the time orbit

Yeah she's gone through a descent of infinite layers of tetrahedrons and ended up in the time orbit. What else? The lowball assumption would render the whole scene an acid trip during some sorts of teleportation.

Again, if there's connection between spatial dimensions and tetrahedron, it'd be immensely helpful to list the scan.

 

[Unqver]

From what I've seen she was looking at The Tetrahedron which is called "a ticket", and she then fell through it to arrive in the time orbit. I think that's all we have here. I am almost sure if that's not actually indicative of any plane of existence being inside a sub-tetrahedron during her process of falling down.

Yeah she's gone through a descent of infinite layers of tetrahedrons and ended up in the time orbit. What else? The lowball assumption would render the whole scene an acid trip during some sorts of teleportation.

Again, if there's connection between spatial dimensions and tetrahedron, it'd be immensely helpful to list the scan.

万華鏡のように、幾重もの正四面体の階層が現れる。【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
わたしもまた、万華鏡のなかにいるのを悟った。In the regular tetrahedron, the regular tetrahedron infinitely continues, andThe regular tetrahedron is covered with infinity
I realized that I was in a kaleidoscope.
When will Kiriha Kosane not be inside the tetrahedron again (with a suppressed smile)

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

万華鏡のように、幾重もの正四面体の階層が現れる。【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
わたしもまた、万華鏡のなかにいるのを悟った。In the regular tetrahedron, the regular tetrahedron infinitely continues, andThe regular tetrahedron is covered with infinity
I realized that I was in a kaleidoscope.
When will Kiriha Kosane not be inside the tetrahedron again (with a suppressed smile)

Am I suggesting that? I was asking about the sub-tetrahedron. It's established rather clearly that The Tetrahedron she's looking at either contains the time orbit or acts as a gateway to it.

 

[Unqver]

Am I suggesting that? I was asking about the sub-tetrahedron. It's established rather clearly that The Tetrahedron she's looking at either contains the time orbit or acts as a gateway to it.

What else does this thing need to prove? The last paragraph of this chapter is about Kiriha Kosane crossing to the bottom layer, and when she realizes it, she is already on the time railway

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

What else does this thing need to prove? The last paragraph of this chapter is about Kiriha Kosane crossing to the bottom layer, and when she realizes it, she is already on the time railway

That other tetrahedrons are meaningful layers of existence instead of simply random phenomena Kosane observed traversing to her destination, nuff said.

 

[Unqver]

That other tetrahedrons are meaningful layers of existence instead of simply random phenomena Kosane observed traversing to her destination, nuff said.

? I can't understand what you're saying

 

[Dog3352]

万華鏡のように、幾重もの正四面体の階層が現れる。【正四面体のなかには、正四面体が無限に続き、その外を、正四面体が無限に覆い囲んでいる】。
わたしもまた、万華鏡のなかにいるのを悟った。In the regular tetrahedron, the regular tetrahedron infinitely continues, andThe regular tetrahedron is covered with infinity

This is the second time you've sent this, and even for someone who doesn't understand Japanese, you can see the errors in this translation, such as the lack of (), the lack of a period, two words together, are you sure that this isn't just an automatic translation?

Like a kaleidoscope, many layers of regular tetrahedrons appear. [Within a regular tetrahedron, an infinite number of regular tetrahedra continue, and on the outside, an infinite number of regular tetrahedra cover and surround it.] I too realized that I was inside a kaleidoscope.

^^^
This translation is better, anyway, it's just what is said at the beginning of the OP, infinite Tetrahedrons in the original Tetrahedron, and each of the infinite Tetrahedrons has its own infinite hierarchy of Tetrahedrons.

No direct statement yes, but the way the structure being describes should indicates infinitely size difference though. To contains an infinite amount of tetrahedron in the upper layers, the lower layers must be infinitely smaller than the upper ones. I wish I have an image to describe what I thinks the structure would be.

Nothing is indicating an infinite difference in size, and the description says that there are endless Tetrahedrons in all layers, not that only the upper layers have infinite Tetrahedrons.

Please read my previous arguments, I don't want to repeat them.

Be more precise in which argument you are talking about, as I only saw two arguments for an infinite difference in size between layers, and I already talked about them in my comment on the third page.

And if you are talking about the railway, for example: Railway = lowest layer, it doesn't change anything.

Firstly, there is still nothing that says there is an infinite difference between the layers.
Secondly, even if we consider the railway to be the lowest layer, the railway is only 2A (infinite timelines), and even to say that the layers are infinitely superior, it would just be an infinite^infinity structure (or infinity x infinity), which is just an uncountable infinity (low 1C).

 

[Unqver]

This is the second time you've sent this, and even for someone who doesn't understand Japanese, you can see the errors in this translation, such as the lack of (), the lack of a period, two words together, are you sure that this isn't just an automatic translation?

^^^
This translation is better, anyway, it's just what is said at the beginning of the OP, infinite Tetrahedrons in the original Tetrahedron, and each of the infinite Tetrahedrons has its own infinite hierarchy of Tetrahedrons.

Nothing is indicating an infinite difference in size, and the description says that there are endless Tetrahedrons in all layers, not that only the upper layers have infinite Tetrahedrons.

Be more precise in which argument you are talking about, as I only saw two arguments for an infinite difference in size between layers, and I already talked about them in my comment on the third page.

And if you are talking about the railway, for example: Railway = lowest layer, it doesn't change anything.

Firstly, there is still nothing that says there is an infinite difference between the layers.
Secondly, even if we consider the railway to be the lowest layer, the railway is only 2A (infinite timelines), and even to say that the layers are infinitely superior, it would just be an infinite^infinity structure (or infinity x infinity), which is just an uncountable infinity (low 1C).

There is no infinite tetrahedron in all layers in both the translation and the original text. This paragraph you translated is also an outer tetrahedron. The previous one is superimposed layer by layer, and finally falls to the lower layer with an infinite number of tetrahedrons outside.