Puella Magi Verse High 1-B Upgrade

[Georredannea15]

And if the 4D tesseract has uncountably infinitely increasing layers, would it not be H1B?

I guess something like this could only happen as long as it had a situation like in DC.

For example, in DC, unlike here, there is a very vague expression like "5th dimension" (This 5th dimension is H1-C). Then it would happen, but in this case it's a very extreme and rare situation, I guess.

Especially considering the specific situation of the verse here... I think this would be a much more extreme situation. (At least since there are no uncountable infinite differences) But yeah, I guess in this situation waiting will cure everything.

 

[Robo432343]

the 5th dimension in DC is High 1-C
why cant the same thing happen for this verse

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I guess something like this could only happen as long as it had a situation like in DC.

For example, in DC, unlike here, there is a very vague expression like "5th dimension". Then it would happen, but in this case it's a very extreme and rare situation, I guess.

Especially considering the specific situation of the verse here... I think this would be a much more extreme situation. (At least since there are no uncountable infinite differences) But yeah, I guess in this situation waiting will cure everything.

It will be nothing like DC. The object is a 4D object comprised of infinite layers that get progressively bigger the higher you go up.

The argument is that the size of these layers are all uncountably infinitely bigger than the next. If this is true, it will be H1B, if not, then 2A.

What you seem to be arguing is that uncoutably infinitely sized objects cannot be tiered higher which isn’t true considering you yourself has said that wiki makes room for things like that.

 

[Georredannea15]

the 5th dimension in DC is High 1-C
why cant the same thing happen for this verse

Because one is the 5th dimension, whose axis and nature are unknown(basically, just the name of the dimension) and the other is the "4-dimensional structure" depicted in a spatial way, and it is even said that the 3-dimensional structure within it shrinks and folds infinitely.

So they have very different contexts.

It will be nothing like DC. The object is a 4D object comprised of infinite layers that get progressively bigger the higher you go up.

The argument is that the size of these layers are all uncountably infinitely bigger than the next. If this is true, it will be H1B, if not, then 2A.

What you seem to be arguing is that uncoutably infinitely sized objects cannot be tiered higher which isn’t true considering you yourself has said that wiki makes room for things like that.

What happens before this ascension is infinite decline, after which there is infinitely ascension.

And I think the next best option will be to wait...

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

What happens before this ascension is infinite decline, after which there is infinitely ascension.

And I think the next best option will be to wait...

So your argument is that the object never exceeds past the size of infinity or an uncountable infinity, making it not viable for a H1B tier and would just be tier 2?

That’s perfectly fine. The staff can see if your interpretation is most accurate and make their decision. I don’t think there is any more need for back and forth.

 

[Georredannea15]

So your argument is that the object never exceeds past the size of infinity or an uncountable infinity, making it not viable for a H1B tier and would just be tier 2?

That’s perfectly fine. The staff can see if your interpretation is most accurate and make their decision. I don’t think there is any more need for back and forth.

Yeah, although not for the reasons you describe, i don't think there should be H1-B here.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What matters is its spatial axis. If this is space with 4 spatial axes, it cannot be H1-B in the first place.

This happened in B&W and it got accepted by staff, you're arguing about some invisible guidelines that don't exist.

 

[Georredannea15]

This happened in B&W and it got accepted by staff, you're arguing about some invisible guidelines that don't exist.

Wow, funny you say that.

Anyway, I have already explained how such situations happen above.

 

[Unqver]

No, the only people who don't doubt are those who want it to upgrade.

Even trying to fit H1-B into a 4-D structure

Infinitely larger or bigger or seeing like a point (even though that's not the context here) is not QS...

Why can't you understand that the 4-D in this work is different from the 4-D in theory, that the world is even the one described by Aristotle (sorry to repeat this)?

 

[Mizuki67]

agree with h1b

 

[StrymULTRA]

There are instance of 4D 1-A (Blue and White), so this is fine in my opinion.

But they will be the weakest High 1-B.

PMMM in this case is actually infinite D because infinite axis of time are mentioned kek.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

PMMM in this case is actually infinite D because infinite axis of time are mentioned kek.

Infinite Axis of Times is 2-A if they're not infinitely larger than each.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Infinite Axis of Times is 2-A if they're not infinitely larger than each.

According to Jinsye it's the case, though I might misremember.

 

[Unqver]

Infinite Axis of Times is 2-A if they're not infinitely larger than each.

The regular tetrahedral structure can form infinite hierarchies, and the 4-D in the book is not the usual 4-D

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Forgive me, but wouldn't this be the similar case like Nasuverse 3D Earth contained 6th Dimension realm? Why would a tetrahedron containing infinite layers of hierarchy be an issue, especially one that both stated and shown that each layers trivialize the previous ones?

 

[Reiner04]

Forgive me, but wouldn't this be the similar case like Nasuverse 3D Earth contained 6th Dimension realm? Why would a tetrahedron containing infinite layers of hierarchy be an issue, especially one that stated each layers trivialize the previous ones?

Uh. We have moved on from that issue. 4D structure can be high 1B very well yeah.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Uh. We have moved on from that issue. 4D structure can be high 1B very well yeah.

Oh, alrighty then.

 

[Georredannea15]

Forgive me, but wouldn't this be the similar case like Nasuverse 3D Earth contained 6th Dimension realm? Why would a tetrahedron containing infinite layers of hierarchy be an issue, especially one that both stated and shown that each layers trivialize the previous ones?

The situations are different.

This is also the case with DC, for example, a phrase like "5th dimension" or "6th dimension" does not say anything about any axis or spatiality because it is extremely vague and its nature is unknown. So such realms can be 3-D or 10-D spatially.


But the situation here is different from them, it is directly called "4-dimensional structure". In short, we are talking about a structure that has 4 axes physically and spatially. This is a different situation from what I described above, which is to fit H1-B into such structures... It is very extreme and almost impossible.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Could I have a TLDR summary here?

 

[Georredannea15]

Could I have a TLDR summary here?

Here are the same summaries we made for Ultima, we are waiting for him.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll remain neutral for now but may shift depending on answer from Tier 1 experts.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Could I have a TLDR summary here?

Here Jinsye made a good explanation.

 

[Larssx]

The wiki gives higher tiers for having uncountably infinite amount of universe, for being uncountably infinitely bigger then a universe/multiverse. None of these things equate to higher dimensions. Your point doesn’t make sense.

You're wrong.
The reason for the uncountable infinite (Aleph-1) amount of universes to reach higher dimensions is simple.
If you have a 4 dimensional structure (which is R^4) and you create/destroy uncountable infinite amount from this structure, it will mean (R^4).R = R^5.
I assume you know that Aleph-1 is equal to R.
In this case you can use it in other higher dimensions.

What about a 4-D spatial axis which extends to a mahlo cardinal? Would that not be tier 0? It's basically same argument here but a lesser tier.

If there is a Mahlo amount of the 4 dimensional universes, it would be tier 0, but for a structure contains universes amount of the Mahlo cardinal and this structure being a 4-dimensional is techinally impossible.
This is because any structure even amount of Aleph-2 them would be R^R (a structure which is uncountable infinite dimensional), so it is impossible to use something amount of the Mahlo cardinal to create a 4-dimensional structure.

 

[Reiner04]

You're wrong.
The reason for the uncountable infinite (Aleph-1) amount of universes to reach higher dimensions is simple.
If you have a 4 dimensional structure (which is R^4) and you create/destroy uncountable infinite amount from this structure, it will mean (R^4).R = R^5
I assume you know that Aleph-1 is equal to R.
In this case you can use it in other higher dimensions.

I would have agreed if that was still the case but ever since my @PrinceofPein staff thread, we have began to not give uncountably infinite sized structures hde.

Simply viewing 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs as fiction does not qualify them as Higher-Dimensional, as they are still portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings.
Ontological differences over 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs, with three or more dimensions, are often a measure of power and do not necessarily indicate the presence of an extradimensional axis.
Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs signifies an uncountable infinite difference, which can suggest qualitative superiority. However, without further context, this does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis.

technically, it having hde needs evidence.

 

[Larssx]

I would have agreed if that was still the case but ever since my @PrinceofPein staff thread, we have began to not give uncountably infinite sized structures hde.

Simply viewing 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs as fiction does not qualify them as Higher-Dimensional, as they are still portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings.
Ontological differences over 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs, with three or more dimensions, are often a measure of power and do not necessarily indicate the presence of an extradimensional axis.
Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs signifies an uncountable infinite difference, which can suggest qualitative superiority. However, without further context, this does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis.

technically, it having hde needs evidence.

Huh? You're talking about HDE, it's completely different from what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about things like destroying a structure which is related to Attack Potency.

 

[Reiner04]

Huh? You're talking about HDE, it's completely different from what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about things like destroying a structure which is related to Attack Potency.

Oh nvm then. Powerscaler lars.

 

[Larssx]

Oh nvm then. Powerscaler lars.

Nice joke, anyway.

 

[Georredannea15]

I would have agreed if that was still the case but ever since my @PrinceofPein staff thread, we have began to not give uncountably infinite sized structures hde.

Simply viewing 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs as fiction does not qualify them as Higher-Dimensional, as they are still portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings.
Ontological differences over 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs, with three or more dimensions, are often a measure of power and do not necessarily indicate the presence of an extradimensional axis.
Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs signifies an uncountable infinite difference, which can suggest qualitative superiority. However, without further context, this does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis.

technically, it having hde needs evidence.

It's for HDE, the HDE revision was also done before the new requirements for qualitative superiority and the requirements for qualitative superiority changed with it.

LarS kardeşim git testini çöz YKS'de 1 tane boş ya da yanlış görmeyeceğim yoksa sanayiye

 

[Reiner04]

It's for HDE, the HDE revision was also done before the new requirements for qualitative superiority and the requirements for qualitative superiority changed with it.

LarS kardeşim git testini çöz YKS'de 1 tane boş ya da yanlış görmeyeceğim yoksa sanayiye

That would take a staff thread to create and change what's written on the page or, if it's something that is already changed then u can go ahead and apply the changes ig? If Uncountable infinite sum of 3D/4D/etc structurs = hde I mean?

 

[Georredannea15]

That would take a staff thread to create and change what's written on the page or, if it's something that is already changed then u can go ahead and apply the changes ig? If Uncountable infinite sum of 3D/4D/etc structurs = hde I mean?

Ohhh... Now I understand what you mean here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The reason for the uncountable infinite (Aleph-1) amount of universes to reach higher dimensions is simple.
If you have a 4 dimensional structure (which is R^4) and you create/destroy uncountable infinite amount from this structure, it will mean (R^4).R = R^5.
I assume you know that Aleph-1 is equal to R.
In this case you can use it in other higher dimensions

R^n is used to describe dimensional spaces. Destroying an uncountable infinite amount of R^4 spaces won’t magically be R^5. The wiki simply equates it as R^5 for its own purposes but it isn’t how it works in real life.

In reality the cardinality of all R^n is equal. So R^4 = R^5 = R = R^10. An uncountable amount of 4D objects would just still be a bunch of 4D objects. You can only make 4D objects 5D by simply stacking them perpendicular to the 4th dimension.

What I was refering to is a numberline larger than R, lets call it A. If A was uncountably larger than R, a 4D object with the size of A would just be A^4. No new axes would be created.

 

[Larssx]

R^n is used to describe dimensional spaces. Destroying an uncountable infinite amount of R^4 spaces won’t magically be R^5. The wiki simply equates it as R^5 for its own purposes but it isn’t how it works in real life.

No, it is how it works.
If you have an uncountable infinite amount of n-dimensional structure, it simply means n.R

In reality the cardinality of all R^n is equal. So R^4 = R^5 = R = R^10. An uncountable amount of 4D objects would just still be a bunch of 4D objects. You can only make 4D objects 5D by simply stacking them perpendicular to the 4th dimension.

A small correction here you should use n<Aleph-1 because in case n=Aleph-1 this would be equal to Aleph-2.
Anyway for n<Aleph-1 what you say is valid because Aleph1.Aleph1.Aleph-1... n times = Aleph-1 but cardinality≠dimensionality so what you say is meaningless.
Just an example if you have uncountable infinite amount 12 dimensional universe that means R^12.R^1 which equals R^13.
I don't think I need to explain multiplication with exponents but here is a short example (x^n).(x^m) = x^(m+n)
Anyway, as I said, what is actually important here is Dimensionality≠Cardinality, so what you say irrelevant.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No, it is how it works.
If you have an uncountable infinite amount of n-dimensional structure, it simply means n.R

That is not true at all.

You are mistaking the geometric quirk that a nD object is comprised of n-1 cross-sections.

It does not mean that an uncountably infinite amount of nD objects would create an n+1D space.

A small correction here you should use n<Aleph-1 because in case n=Aleph-1 this would be equal to Aleph-2.
Anyway for n<Aleph-1 what you say is valid

not a small correction. Just you being pedantic. n in my example stands for any natural number

but cardinality≠dimensionality so what you say is meaningless.
Just an example if you have uncountable infinite amount 12 dimensional universe that means R^12.R^1 which equals R^13.

Take your own advice. in my original post I was speaking about cardinality and length.

Anways. There’s no need to derail this thread.

 

[Larssx]

It does not mean that an uncountably infinite amount of nD objects would create an n+1D space.

This is literally what it means, if you are talking about n-dimensional universes and uncountable infinite amount of them then there is n.R, You are just trying to ignore a lot of things, I explained this even 2 times.

not a small correction. Just you being pedantic. n in my example stands for any natural number

I mentioned this because you did not define "n".
You simply cannot make this comment without defining n.

Take your own advice. in my original post I was speaking about cardinality and length.

You mentioned this in the comment you responded to me, that's why I wrote this.

Anways. There’s no need to derail this thread.

Yeah what we are talking about is no longer very relevant to the OP, anyway.

 

[Fixxed]

Soo... the gap of size between lower structure and higher structure is infinitely small to infinite. The lower structure is already infinite, but it become more lesser infinite in higher structure, and we have infinity hierarchy of that structure

About lower structure just a point or something insignificant in higher structure, honestly i dont found the proof of it in any scan

Leaning to agree for now

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Soo... the gap of size between lower structure and higher structure is infinitely small to infinite. The lower structure is already infinite, but it become more lesser infinite in higher structure, and we have infinity hierarchy of that structure

About lower structure just a point or something insignificant in higher structure, honestly i dont found the proof of it in any scan

Leaning to agree for now

Here they are, the links works this time.

 

[Shadowbeast]

About lower structure just a point or something insignificant in higher structure, honestly i dont found the proof of it in any scan

It's this, Kosane was in a labyrinth filled with layers of tetrahedrons, she begins to interact with both the lower and higher layers and ends up causing a singularity. So she ends up seeing a point (reference to things being infinitesimally small in the lower layer) which is the Time Railord. The point suddently grows larger and reveals its true form (the Time Railord) to Kosane as she interacts with the higher layer.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Bump, have we reach any conclusion yet?

 

[Jinsye]

As far as I can tell there's one admin on each opposing side (Qawsedf for disagree, Mav for agree) and Ultima who hasn't yet decided.

 

[Reiner04]

This thread is honestly dead. Should be closed and re-created by some other supporters.