- 6,605
- 4,155
She's litteraly stated to be tho.
OP's feats are mostly things a regular tier 2 could do.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Puella Magi Verse God-Tier Upgrades
- Thread starter Beast_Zero_Gudako
- Start date
- Status
OP's feats are mostly things a regular tier 2 could do.
- 2,347
- 488
- Thread starter
- #82
Let's break it down like this. I hope you guys read it thoroughly cuz it was a pain to post this long post.
The existence of Higher Plane beyond Low 2-C structure
This scans talks about the existence of "higher plane/space" beyond Low 2-C structure. I need to emphasize it that the statement was said by Kyubey/Incubator, one of the most reliable source in the series.
But at the time, we thought that it was just about Madoka conceptual status, which makes her still bound to it. So we don't accept about the existence of the "higher plane" due being too vague, even with Kyubey credibility.
However, this particular image confirmed the statement in the first scans above about the existence of "higher plane" beyond Low 2-C structure. The words She listen to the sounds from the countless records spinning before her quite blatantly shown about Madoka occupying the space beyond Low 2-C structure. So now, we know the first scans statement are true.
Now onto the "chronology" of the event in the PMMM.
Chronology of events
Based on the scans above, the Cosmology of PMMM prior Madoka's ascension would be like this:
Per our Tiering System standard, this is enough for it to be Low 1-C cosmology. And I will emphasize it again that this is even before Madoka's ascension. As you can see, we refers this entire cosmology as "The World of Witches", basically the world before Madoka's ascension.
There is one this you guys need to know before I continue onto the next part, It's about Madoka's nature as conceptual being. For the context, this scene was taken within the Magia Record universe, a universe that is outside of Madoka's Law, so Witches still exists here even after Madoka's ascension.
Touka attempted to siphon a little bit of Goddess Madoka power since last time, that power had helped them in battle against Walpurgisnacht.
However, little little did she know that it was a terrible idea since Madoka's Law will destroys the Magia Record Universe and changed it to fit with her law.
So basically, everything that is within Madoka's influence will be destroyed and the new one with be born to replace it.
Which brings us to the part where Madoka made her wish.
This scans again talks aboit Madoka's acsension to higher plane. But as I explained above, her occupying the higher plane means that she destroying it as well and create a new one.
Which means that she destroyed The World of Witches, which is again, refers to the entire cosmology prior Madoka's ascension.
And the one that replace the World.of Witches is of course the World of Wraith, the cosmology post Madoka's ascension:
Now, both the World of Witch and Wraith are like two sides of a coin. Both have the same size, same contents, the only difference is that in the new "world", a concept of witch" do not exist.
And Madoka can be considered as the coin in this analogy.
- 550
- 256
Neutral learning towards disagree
Others than frame by frame case, the rest is not indicate the higher dimensional space is qualifed to how our tiering system treated higher dimensional usually
Tho the disc part is something that also doesn't even qualifed anything to Infinite difference between the world or something that suggesting it's Coordinately higher
Others than frame by frame case, the rest is not indicate the higher dimensional space is qualifed to how our tiering system treated higher dimensional usually
Tho the disc part is something that also doesn't even qualifed anything to Infinite difference between the world or something that suggesting it's Coordinately higher
- 1,204
- 1,052
5D alone is debatable, but I'm not buying with this "6D" stuffs so count me as disagree on that.
- 15,281
- 7,010
6D is definitely wrong yeah.
- 2,347
- 488
- Thread starter
- #86
What does the distance between disc has anything to do with Low 1-C?
Madoka trivialized Low 2-C constructs like a disc/record, which can be played by her frame by frame. That is enough for 5-D.
I already said several times I'm no longer proposing 6D.
- 16,270
- 10,714
Yes I agree with everything
- 550
- 256
Which is because her perspective bout being omnipresent
Not because the higher dimensional space itself
You can use disc analogy but that's not qualifed to out tiering system
- 15,281
- 7,010
Containing timelines makes it just a bigger 4D, nuff else
- 16,270
- 10,714
Except that Demigra is stated to be beyond space and time and Crack of Time literally see the 2-A multiverse as fiction.
- 15,281
- 7,010
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
- 944
I thought it was the real world that viewed the 2-A multiverse as fiction.
- 16,270
- 10,714
Its not a troll, if this was a DB thread, I would send scans to you, but lets not go out of the topic
- 16,270
- 10,714
The Real World is the argument that would make it 6-D, but it is a bad argument because later, the real world is stated to be ''conected'', which basically means that they are just another timeline, or something like that
- 16,270
- 10,714
Anyways, lets focus on PMMM, lets keep DB to a DB thread
- 92
- 98
Ok guys no more DB, stay on topic
- 4,466
- 378
Neutral for now
this seems sus honestly
this seems sus honestly
- 92
- 98
Thought you said it was wank and that you were gonna debunk it tho?
- 4,466
- 378
btw,
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
- 554
But this was clarifed in Sonic thread and the FAQ page that the transcendence doesn't have to be uncountaly infinite or higher infinite in order to qualify as Low 1-C,just simply transcending 2-A multiverse by being in higher plane is Low 1-C.What you mentioned is the old system of Low 1-C so yeah
Could you provide more evidence for 4th dimensional space? Just the mention of 4th dimensional pocket alone doesn't equate to actual mathematical 4th spatial dimension.
Otherwise I dont know anything about the verse so I will remain neutral for now
- 92
- 98
- 4,466
- 378
Because, i already knew the arguments. though apparently being the multiverse and trascending it isn't a contradiction.Ok but why'd you say it was wank without seeing the CRT first at the beginning?
so ye, im not sure about it, would be cool if someone answer to the being and trascending a multiverse question
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,640
well firstly those discs were low 2-C structures based on the OP, and secondly a 2-A being bound by the multiverse makes no sense. It's a tier a character would get by literally having the potency to destroy the multiverse.
- 1,204
- 1,052
This doesn't refer as time and space transcendence unless you can quote me where so false equivalence, for a higher plane of existence, the context for infinite transcendent is needed.
- 1,204
- 1,052
That doesn't necessarily have to be on that way, for instance, you can be Low 2-C yet is still bound to a universe.
- 15,281
- 7,010
Dragon Ball Heroes and Nipponverse: k
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
- 554
That does,its there in FAQ page.No the context for infinite transcendence isn't needed which is what was agreed in Sonic thread and you even argued against it so no false equivalency to be present here
If you can show me where in the FAQ page its mentioned that infinite transcendence is needed for higher plane of existence then I would appreciate that
Q: What tier is transcending space and time?
A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space."However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.
It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.
- 6,605
- 4,155
Some 2-As litteraly are at this tier because they are a multiverse. They aren't transcendant over themselves or anything.
- 1,204
- 1,052
You literally misinterpreted what I am saying, I said there is no "transcending time and space" in this CRT context, not that "transcending time and space" needs something like reality-fiction difference at the first place, hence why I said it is a false equivalence since the FAQ you just brought above (which like for f*** sake the stuff I already knew) is only applicable to "transcending time and space" context.
Yes, you need something infinitesimally difference in axis in order to prove a higher plane (without time and space transcendent) has higher infinity difference in comparison to the lower, exactly the reason why Maou Gakuin isn't 1-B, the reason why infinite transcendent is redundant for "transcending time and space" itself is because the word of "transcend" in the sense of ascending to higher level already suggested it.
Now I will repeat, if there is "transcending time and space" context here I need you to quote it here.
Last edited:
- 4,773
- 2,574
There is no quote directly state that she transcends space-time but according to kyubey madoka has ceased to be a member of universe and no one in universe can perceive her so I believe she is not bound by 4-D structure,also in one event in magia record it said that Madoka is beyond future(time) and UKG travelling through time physically also prove that she is not bound of it
And,why perceiving multiverse as fiction is not enough for infinite superiority?Even infinite 2-D(fictional)characters can't affect one 3-D(real) person,I don't know why Madoka is not enough for low 1-C,at least it would be likely low 1-C at worst case.Let me use Magi as an example,from Ugo perspective inhabitants in lower worlds are like fictional character,that's why Ugo said beings like that have 0% to defeat him
And,why perceiving multiverse as fiction is not enough for infinite superiority?Even infinite 2-D(fictional)characters can't affect one 3-D(real) person,I don't know why Madoka is not enough for low 1-C,at least it would be likely low 1-C at worst case.Let me use Magi as an example,from Ugo perspective inhabitants in lower worlds are like fictional character,that's why Ugo said beings like that have 0% to defeat him
- 6,605
- 4,155
Everything here can apply to a 4D tho.
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
- 554
I didn't lol,you said that trivializing the multiverse to disc isn't infinite or Inaccessible jump implying that it requires infinite jump fo Low 1-C which as clarifed in Sonic thread before isn't true.I will quote your words again.
So you literally implied that Infinite transcendence of 2-A is Low 1-C otherwise there would be simply no point in you mentioning that.Its stated for only transcending space and time but it literally quantifies the gap between 2-A and Low 1-C which is not infinite as simply higher level of reality transcending 2-A multiverse is enough for Low 1-C so again the gap doesn't become different under different statements so no again its not false equivalency and I mentioned the relevant quote which explains the gap between 2-A and Low 1-C under transcending 2-A multiverse.
No you dont since the gap between 2-A and Low 1-C isn't higher infinity as examplifed by higher reality transcending the 2-A multiverse establishes the gap between both tiers and that gap doesn't change for any other context whether "transcending space and time" is stated or not.Then have it upgrade to 1-B or whatever since it clearly is going against the established tiering system.Its not because transcending space and time in sense of higher reality NEVER implied infinitely transcending 2-A multiverse.It isn't stated anywhere in tiering system page or FAQ page.In fact it not being infinitely transcending was your main point in Sonic thread
Which isn't relevant because the gap of 2-A and Low 1-C remains the same as do the methods of obtaining it irrespective of transcending space and time mentions
- 4,773
- 2,574
Who are 4-D characters in this wiki that have it?And tiering page say perceiving as fiction can qualify for tier 1
"Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal."
- 1,204
- 1,052
Now I do feels like you misunderstood our Tiering System, a lot, and just arguing for the sake of arguing. No, trivializing a multiverse to a disc or say, an elementary particle is nowhere an innacessible jump to Low 1-C, it's a common thing to Tier 2, I've gave you why it is the reason that Maou Gakuin isn't 1-B despite their showing of trivializing multiverse as chesses or shogi(s) and capable to destroy them just by mere existences. I'll repeat again that the FAQ you were using is only applicable to transcending time and space as higher reality. You don't need infinite transcendent difference to be qualified as Tier 1, yes, I'm aware of it, but if your context does not backed up by all time space transcendent in the sense of higher reality or larger higher dimensional space which confines the lower dimensions as a bulk, said infinite transcendent suggestion is needed. Sonic example is not a good example since it has higher level of reality which transcended the time and space as its context and does qualifies via the FAQ, which any of your arguments do not.
Last edited:
- 1,204
- 1,052
Funny thing is, it has been rejected. I suggest you to learn how our tiering works to avoid such misconception and have proper understanding.
Last edited:
- 1,204
- 1,052
I'm aware for that, the reality-fiction is debatable, I'm just clarifying about trivializing Tier 2 structure to something small only proved that it is above the baseline (and is common ***** in Tier 2), nowhere a comparison to a 3D perceived a 2D plane as something infinitely thinner like the gap between 1 to 0 just as my former point above.
- Status
