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Problem with current Smash Bros stats (mostly involving Master Hand)

I just said to only use the gallery as an informational index of the in-game characters, not that the trophies are the characters themselves. So given that Arceus appears in the Smashverse (trophy world) and Smashverse =/= canon verse the Arceus in the Smashverse is different than the one in pokemon canon.

However, if the in-game description of Arceus in the Smashverse says that Arceus is 2-B(I believe that is still being contested), and MH created Trophy world, then MH created Arceus and is >Arceus
 
No, ive already debunked that.


Arceus is not present on the Subspace emmisary aka "Smash Verse".

as long it doesnt canonically appears on the adventure mode, it CANNOT be used.
 
Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
In SSB64, you can even see how he creates the stage to make them fight. Tabuu specifically used him to take over the SSB universe, saying that he can do it. Added to the fact that it is connected to somewhere beyond. And vague statements don't make it any less of an evidence. Warhammer 40,000 is the best example of that.
Click to expand...
Tabuu specifically enslaved him and forced him, as a puppet, to command Ganondorf and Bowser to wage war against everyone else. Note the complete and utter lack of clicking fingers and wiping everyone back to trophies or anything else to indicate significant power? They listened to Master Hand yes- he didn't control them or hold any eldritch power over them.

Also using the (wildly contradictory) 40K for a Smash Bros argument is... hilarious.
 
Aren't the standard smash matches and maps canon in themselves, and so the items as well, (even the trophies and trophy stand in brawl, there's no reason to be skeptical of the concept of figurines, and an item that turns things to trophies would just be an overpowered weapon), which would include the pokemon and the pokemon in them. I believe the fights themselves are established by Subspace Emissary.
 
The items and maps are canon yes.


But you can't scale them to Master Hand because there's no proof he owns any of it. The player owns it all.

Kid Icarus Uprising uses a similar trophy system. You wouldn't assume that Palutena or Pit has access to these trophies (which isn't a bad comparison to make since they were literally made by the same guy). So why are we assuming Master Hand is the one with the access to the trophies again? I've given multiple reasons why the player is the guy who has them.
 
I am pretty sure that on Subspace Emissary, there was a bunch of trophies on Master Hand Domain,so yeah,he should scale from trophies
 
CursedGentleman said:
I am pretty sure that on Subspace Emissary, there was a bunch of trophies on Master Hand Domain,so yeah,he should scale from trophies
Click to expand...
I meant the trophies you can collect in game.

Like the ones at the trophy gallery.

Which is owned by the player, not Master Hand.
 
Doesn't MH having trophies enough proof that he is the one that likely made it or?

And Even if this is wrong or whatever, what is the proposition?

5-B MH

If he created everything on smash verse, this means he created the goddamn pokeballs that can unleash legendary pokemon
 
CursedGentleman said:
Doesn't MH having trophies enough proof that he is the one that likely made it or?
And Even if this is wrong or whatever, what is the proposition?

5-B MH

If he created everything on smash verse, this means he created the goddamn pokeballs that can unleash legendary pokemon
Click to expand...
Not sure where you got having trophies = universal.

And he didn't have any trophies in Brawl either.

The proposition is getting rid of universal. Replace it with whatever.

He didn't create the Smash verse for reasons I have explained multiple times.
 
So, if we follow your logic, then...

Master Hand > Master Core /Tabuu /Master Hand /Crazy Hand > Master Hand


Yeah, i think this has been proven to be quite a bit of a dead scale.
 
At least I am not the one that wants to downgrade the Universal MH

Why we dont downgrade even further and say that everyone is 10-C because MH is a hand of a child then ?
 
CursedGentleman said:
At least I am not the one that wants to downgrade the Universal MH
Why we dont downgrade even further and say that everyone is 10-C because MH is a hand of a child then ?
Click to expand...
I'm not going to debate with someone who is being immature.
 
Besides, even if you dont want MH to scale to the trophies,the statement that MH created the verse, still exists, so yeah,he created the verse and that should be the reason why he is low 2-C

Unless you have a better reasoning as to where he stands, you are either asking to put MH on Unknown tier or idk
 
CursedGentleman said:
Besides, even if you dont want MH to scale to the trophies,the statement that MH created the verse, still exists, so yeah,he created the verse and that should be the reason why he is low 2-C
Unless you have a better reasoning as to where he stands, you are either asking to put MH on Unknown tier or idk
Click to expand...
"the statement that master hand created the verse still exists"

No, it doesn't.

"source of creation" is a meaningless quote that has another translation that is equally as valid "personifies creation" and is way too vague to mean anything noteworthy.

I've explained this multiple times, please read up in the future.

And don't act like you're right and the other person is wrong. This isn't a competition. (I'm not saying I'm right I'm just saying that I don't agree with his current standing btw)
 
Or at least 5-B likely low 2-C (Is infinitely superior to Rayquaza, created Subspace Emissary, to which is unknown if it is a world or a universe)

And please,I am relaxed, the way I write does not say how I am feeling
 
CursedGentleman said:
How is it unreasonable?
Are you going to say why? Or are you going to just say that is unreasonable for no reason?
Click to expand...
No one created Subspace Emissary, Master Hand has only been seen creating a single stage in Smash Bros 64 and nothing more. And I don't know what Rayquaza has even done.
 
@Matthew

I also think that, but for some reason, they just don't believe that MH created Smash verse for some whatever reason
 
"source of creation" is a meaningless quote that has another translation that is equally as valid "personifies creation" and is way too vague to mean anything noteworthy."
 
Why are we assuming that the trophies shown in the gallery in-game are all able to be awakened as the actual things they depict when the only beings we know to be able to are the playable characters and the assist trophies?

What evidence supports the assumption that they are not actual, simple, trophies?
 
Okay 2 things.

1.) Everyone here needs to calm down. I dont care at all who started what or who's continuing what. This is a discussion, not the 100 year war. Everyone here needs to chill, take a break, come back with a calm mind, and stop coming at each others throats about attitudes and such. Now.

2.) Remember Cal asking for Azzy to make a comment here? Since he was largely apart of ranking Smash where it is now before, he can be of a big assistance here. We need to wait until he can come to give his thoughts.
 
Inagree with Link.

Seriously, its PIS beyond PIS that a character sees another character as a toy when that character can one shot him.

No scaling from throphies should be allowed.
 
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