Potential Kenpachi Upgrade?

[Amlad22]

(Sorry for another bleach thread but I've been really curious about this topic)

In the fight against Kenny and Gremmy, when Gremmy makes a clone of himself he specifically says that his power is doubled https://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/39691

Gremmy's meteor feat is lowballed to 5 teratons so logically the original Gremmy would be able to create attacks with 2.5 teratons of force. So Gremmy is still small country level. Going off of this Base Kenpachi should also be small country level since he severely damaged Gremmy and tanked all of his attack. Shikai Kenpachi should also be upgraded to country level. This is because he tanked attacks from the 7 Gremmy and killed 6 of them. 2.5 multiplied by 7 is 17.5, so shikai Kenpachi tanked a 17.5 teraton attack and then killed the clones after. For Bankai Kenpachi he should be upgraded to large country level for being vastly superior to his shikai state, potentially even dwarfing it in power.

So overall Kenpachi should be small country level in base, country in shikai and large country in Bankai.

There are some people who could potentially scale. Yamamoto and Ichibei are big ones. They are stated to be the strongest shinigami and should not be weaker than Kenpachi. So both should be upgraded to large country level to scale to Kenny. I don't know if only Yamamoto's Bankai would increase but maybe his shikai could increase as well since he shouldn't be inferior to base Kenpachi in his shikai. Another increase would be Gerard. The only thing that would change for him is making his form that fought Kenny go to country level. The last change would be Nimaya moving up to small country level since his profile states that he shouldn't be weaker than base Kenny

 

[PaChi2]

Gremmy is small country with the meteor, so I disagree with the OP.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I also disagree with this.

 

[Perilouss]

It is specifically the meteor feat that put gremmy at small country level, not his normal attacks, so it looks like nothing can be scaled from this.

 

[Amlad22]

It seems nobody read this carefully. I know that Gremmy is small country level with meteor but when he makes 6 clones of himself his power is multiplied. He is country level after he makes 6 clones of himself and Kenpachi tanked attacks from him.

The other part that nobody seemed to read which I will say again is that base Kenpachi severely damaged Gremmy. Which means base Kenpachi should be small country level

 

[PaChi2]

1) Gremmy's normal attacks arent small country+ level.

2) I will make a CR thread about Gremmy's durability, since he is small country+ in dura for surviving a swing from zaraki, when his body didnt tank it (see Gowther for example).

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Kenpachi did have his eyepatch on when he destroyed the meteor so I think county level would be reasonable for Shikai Kenpachi when he has his eyepatch off, considering he was already Small Country level+ with it on.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

1) Gremmy's normal attacks arent small country+ level.
2) I will make a CR thread about Gremmy's durability, since he is small country+ in dura for surviving a swing from zaraki, when his body didnt tank it (see Gowther for example).

2.) If you re read the the chapter you can clearly see that Gremmy's clones survived being cut in half by kenpachi's shikai and we scale gremmy to clones, which resluts in a small country level rating in durabilty

 

[Amlad22]

Once again we are talking about when Gremmy made 7 of himself. He should be multiple times stronger than when he made the meteor and Kenpachi still tanked his attacks. If Gremmy is country level via clone creating than shikai Kenpachi should be country level as well. And Bankai should logically be a tier above since he curbstomped Gerard who beat shikai Kenpachi.

As for base Gremmy specifically stated his power doubled when he called down the meteor which was 5 teratons. Based off of Gremmy's statement of his power he would still be small country level at the start of the fight and Kenpachi hurt him bad.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I don't think that scaling can be accepted since the power difference between Zaraki with eyepatch and without eyepatch has never been quantified. If it was explicitly stated that say - he was three times as powerful with it off, then I suppose so. But the power difference right now remains unquantified.

 

[Amlad22]

Even if we forget about the eyepatch he still tanked a combined attack from the 7 Gremmy, which means his durability is country level and his attack potency should scale to that

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I don't think that scaling can be accepted since the power difference between Zaraki with eyepatch and without eyepatch has never been quantified. If it was explicitly stated that say - he was three times as powerful with it off, then I suppose so. But the power difference right now remains unquantified.

Well pre-timeskip Kenpachi with his eyepatch on was equal-ish to Base Nnoitra and then when he had it ripped off he was equal-ish to Ressurreccion Nnoitra. Urahara basically described Ressureccion as Bankai for Arrancars and according to Yoruichi a bankai generally boosts a shinigai's power 5-10x.

 

[Amlad22]

If we add the whole eyepatch thing then Kenpachi would be bordering continent level which makes no sense. So I think it's best to just scale him to Gremmy

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

If we add the whole eyepatch thing then Kenpachi would be bordering continent level which makes no sense. So I think it's best to just scale him to Gremmy

Well if we assume the eyepatch power-up is similar to a bankai power-up at best his bankai would be 500 tts which is still in the middle ground of Large Country level.

 

[Amlad22]

So either way he should be country level in shikai and large country in Bankai. That makes sense. I also still think Kenpachi's base form should be small country level for severely damaging Gremmy

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I don't know about the upgrade but I don't think assigning Large Country to Kenpachi is going to work. Base Nnoitra is at least Town level and his Ressurecion is rated the same way despite him being stronger in that form.

I think it should be 'At least Country level' if the upgrade is accepted in the first place.

 

[Amlad22]

The difference is nnoitra and other espada aren't that much stronger in ressurection. Kenpachi went from getting beat by Gerard with Gerard only having mid difficulty to Kenny being able to curb stomp Gerard. Plus if shikai Kenpachi is around 20 teratons (scaling from him surviving an attack from 7 Gremmy clones who are 17.5 teratons) then he would only need to be 5 times stronger to get large country level rating.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Huh? Resurrecion is a power up to them like Bankai is. Like Vollstandig/Letz Stil is to Quincy. Also, linear scaling isn't accepted except it would contradict some ratings. And like I said, I don't even know if the upgrade is legit. I'm just suggesting 'At least Country level' for Kenpachi if that's so.

 

[Amlad22]

I'm just saying that Kenpachi's Bankai is a much greater increase than any ressurection that has been shown. So it should be at least 5x if not more. We also have to remember that he curbstomped Gerard who is also country level. So that's why he should be a tier above.

Anyway, even if his Bankai is put to at least country level, the other upgrades for his base form and shikai need to be made. Base should be small country level for severely damaging Gremmy and shikai should be country level for tanking an attack from the 7 Gremmy clones.

Also Burning, do you agree with the other people that would scale? (Yama, Ichibei, Gerard and Nimaya)

 

[PaChi2]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/536766?useskin=oasis

Leaving this here because, if accepted, would render unusable the only argument supporting this upgrade (kenpachi damaging gremmy in base).

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

But curbstomping someone doesn't necessarily mean you're a whole tier above them.

Gremmy's durability is either getting downgraded or placed at Unknown. So I'm not sure about Kenpachi getting upgraded anymore.

Yeah, they would scale if Kenpachi got upgraded. But that's unlikely.

 

[Amlad22]

The only thing that does if it gets excepted is stop BASE Kenpachi from being upgraded. However shikai should still get up to country level for tanking an attack from the 7 Gremmy clones and then like you said we can either do 'at least country level, likely higher' or large country level for his Bankai.

 

[Amlad22]

Bump

 

[Amlad22]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

The other participants seems to have countered your arguments. There is not point in bumping this thread. It should probably be closed.

 

[Amlad22]

It hasn't really been countered. All they did is say that base Kenpachi shouldn't be upgraded. However the shikai Kenpachi upgrade still stands

 

[Antvasima]

Well, with LordAizenSama having quit his position, KuuIchigo missing, and Kkapoios busy, we have nobody to evaluate Bleach threads. Sorry.

However, I think that Gremmy's multiplication ability was already factored into his power long ago.

 

[Amlad22]

Do you have an idea of when KuuIchigo or Kkapoios might be back?

Also Gremmy is country level with his multiplication, you are right in saying that it was already calculated. So that's why Kenpachi should be country level in shikai for tanking an attack from all 7 clones, however he is only small country+

Then Bankai should be upgraded to large country for dwarfing his shikai power level

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No dwarfing shikai in power doesn't equal an upgrade from small country+ level to large country level, that would only make him at least small country+ level, unless you have proof that bankai somehow makes kenpachi over 14x stronger than shikai, we don't just upgrade people to a higher tier just for being stronger than before.

Also don't understand what you were saying about him tanking an attack being country level and then only being small country+? I am guessing you meant his durability is country level while his ap is only small country+ level.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

As said above Gremmy is Small Country level via his meteor and the Country level stats are more hypothetical.Kenpachi destroyed the meteor (and its momentum) so he is ranked accordingly.The rest of Gremmy's showings weren't that impressive and destroying a clone at a time wouldn't make him Country level.(also considering the fact that Kenpachi could slice Gremmy before he activated his Shikai i would say that even one shotting all 8 of them wouldn't be Country level).

 

[Amlad22]

Well we know for certain that Gremmy with 7 clones is country level since he specifically said his power is multiplied every time he clones himself and his base form is 2.5 teratons. So the 7 clones would be 17.5 teratons with their combined attacks (which is country level)

Kenpachi tanked those attacks so logically he should be in that same range and even higher since Unohana said he gets stronger every time he's nearly killed. So in the fight against Gerard he would logically be above Gremmy who was country level. So Kenpachi's Bankai would only have to be a 5x increase and he'd be large country level. There's no way it's less than 5x based on the jump in power he had.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Your assumption has a huge hole on it, Gremmy's attack power isn't constant, he just imagines about stuff and then they become a reallity, his AP depends on what he imagines, for example when he though of lave, that was regular lave, not some Small Country super duper extra wow lava.

 

[Amlad22]

The thing is that he needed 7 clones to put all their power together for the galaxy room. He couldn't do it with just 2 clones. So that means attacks like galaxy room should still be around 17.5 teratons. Which is country level, and as I already stated, Kenpachi tanked it

As for the lava, Gremmy could have easily created super lava that is much more potent than normal, just like how Akainu can create lava that can easily burst holes through large island level fighters

 

[Amlad22]

Are there any more arguments for why Kenpachi's shikai and bankai can't get upgraded?

 

[PaChi2]

Galaxy Room isnt AP, its creating a void similar to space, unquantificable. Also, gremmy's power doesnt translate to AP since it all depends on what he imagines, his stats are all over the place depending on his mind state and arent consistent to rate them linearly.

 

[Amlad22]

His ap isn't linear, that is true. However he still needed 7 clones to create the galaxy room. He couldn't do it with only 2. That's the only reason why surviving Galaxy room should give shikai Kenny country level dura, because it took 7 Gremmy to create it

 

[PaChi2]

Creating a void, I think Im repeating myself, isnt AP in any way. It took 7 gremmy's to create that, yes, but the attack per se isnt AP reliant, but hax dependant. A room sized void can be created by a building level reality warper.

 

[Amlad22]

I understand where your coming from but that doesn't work for Gremmy. If it was all hax he would have no need to make clones of himself to increase his power.

 

[PaChi2]

Let me be clearer:

2 Gremmies = Small country level Meteor. Hax into AP.

7 Gremmies = Possibly Country level Meteor. Hax into AP.

7 Gremies using Galaxy Room =\= Country level Galaxy Room because this technique isnt AP, and you dont need dura to survive Galaxy Room. It could have been 10000000 Gremmies creating the same void (at best they'd make it bigger, but not "stronger") and Kenpachi would be the same.

 

[Amlad22]

Gremmy specifically said his power multiplies with every clone, therefore the only reason he would create any extra clones would be to create an attack that one clone didn't have the power to do. Galaxy room is a prime example of this, Gremmy knew he couldn't create a room powerful enough to kill Kenny with two clones so he made 7. If making clones only makes the attack bigger and not stronger then Gremmy would have had no reason whatsoever to clone himself. He would have just stayed as one person