Guacamolefletcher
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She should be way stronger than she is right now, anyways.
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Retsu Unohana high 6-A bleach upgrade
- Thread starter Coyote
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I once asked a powerscaler about Base Shikai Aizen vs Unohana and this is what I got back (it's a bible passage):
Hmm this is difficult question... I think Sōsuke Aizen in his base with shikai pre hogyuko would win ! The reason for that is because unohana is very powerful indeed but after the time skip through Data books and anime/manga we learn that while other captains such as byakuya, kenpachi, and toshiro have become very powerful even relative to Aizen somewhat, but unohana's power has stagnated as she rarely fights. She powerful enough to kill 'Spirits are forever with you' kenpachi over and over again, this same kenpachi took down 3 sternritter and was one shotted by fake yhwach, while a weakened Yamamoto with in shikai with one arm was able to albeit for very small time skirmish with the fake yhwach, and that Sōsuke Aizen was said to be relative to him. Yamamoto in his shikai has statements saying that he is the strongest shinigami for the past 1000 years that would include Unohana.
Another thing is that kisuke urahara in the CFYOW novels is stated by tokinada to one shot guys like him. And tokinada is equal and comparable to the nobles including TYBW byakuya, yoruichi and isshin. That same kisuke urahara then goes up against a Fullbringer named Aura michibane who on the same level on power as base Sōsuke Aizen, kisuke urahara does well against her using high level kidos like 99 but she beats kisuke urahara up. Kisuke being stated to one shot guys like tokinada is major thing and tokinada if I recall correctly is lower than Aizen as he himself states he as not nearly enough SP when using kyoka suigetsu kyoka suigetsu and ryujin jakka. How this match to unohana is that byakuya kuchiki was able blow Gerard Valkyrie's head off, but even if you don't want to count that, kisuke fought and defeated askin nakk le var, one the strongest sternritter and a member of the elite guard.
I know renji said that "we have been training to become relative to guys like Aizen" but this statement has little value and surely does not apply to byakuya let alone renji post timeskip, in the data books it was stated even with one arm Yamamoto was stated to be the strongest captains, and in bis shikai which Aizen is relative too, he killed two about 2 sternritters, blew away as nodt the same guy who stole byakuya's bankai (to do that you must be relative to the person from whom ur stealing from as said by yhwach) and as nodt and nanana najakoba something that wierd sternritter whose name I don't remember both got bodied by shikai Yamamoto and only survived cause bazz b a sternritter relative to shikai Yamamoto as he cancelled his flames to save as nodt and the other guy. And another thing to note is that Aizen feared kenpachi zaraki's potential (feared doesn't mean if I through kenpachi in the ring with Aizen he's gonna cut him) it just means he might evolve to awaken his shikai mid battle if Aizen was winning and he might become more potentially if Aizen played around. And Aizen after slaughtering the Gotei 13 in Fake karakura he went to Yamamoto and said now with your army gone it's not even easy for you to stop me, and Aizen continued to say that if you were to fall the Gotei 13 would be done for, this is very important cause when Aizen made this statement UNOHANA WAS LITERALLY METERS AWAY FROM HIM AND HE DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO MENTIONED HER.(edited)
He made contingency plans for Yamamoto cause he knew Yamamoto was stronger he feared zaraki's potential to achieve zanjutsu but now in the same way as Yamamoto as it was said 'Spirits are forever with you' that Aizen with each next evolution of the hogyuko was growing so strong that he didn't even know, he couldn't know cause he was surprised every time he evolved in this 2nd fusion he even stated no in soul society can beat me now and the novel also said Aizen became so confident after his second transformation he didn't even fear zaraki anymore. My point is just like Yamamoto said Aizen was never a threat to him, logically it would refer to his bankai, Aizen never considered anyone except Yamamoto a real threat, I know that he feared zaraki's potential but remember zaraki at time and even in 'Spirits are forever with you' was espada top tier level as he beat Cien granz. If Aizen someone who once taught at the soul society, knew about zaraki's potential, sealed Yamamoto's shikai, knew about yhwach vs Yamamoto 1000 year battle and he even knew the truth behind the soul society and saw it for what if really was, so if he didn't even mention unohana being a hindrance to his plan he might as well be confident enough to take her down.
Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai, 1st Division Taicho/SouTaichou
Strength: 100
Defence: 100
Mobility: 100
Kidou: 100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 60
Total : 560
Sōsuke Aizen, Former 5th Division Taicho/Arrancar Leader
Strength: 100
Defence: 90
Mobility: 90
Kidou:100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 80
Total: 560
Retsu Unohana, 4th Division Taicho
Strength: 100
Defence: 80
Mobility: 70
Kidou: 100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 90
Total: 540
Unohana is more a equal to shunsui and jushiro as they the oldest captains
Note : in one of the bleach databooks it was said thag Sōsuke Aizen had mastered all shinigami arts Zanjutsu Kido Hoho Hakuda
tl;dr, with all things considered, even if Aizen is confident in defeating Unohana, it would be high difficulty and he would maybe have one of his underlings do the for him instead, too much hassle
Of course Yamamoto has canonically mollywopped Unohana to make her join the Gotei 13 so she's not stronger than him
Hmm this is difficult question... I think Sōsuke Aizen in his base with shikai pre hogyuko would win ! The reason for that is because unohana is very powerful indeed but after the time skip through Data books and anime/manga we learn that while other captains such as byakuya, kenpachi, and toshiro have become very powerful even relative to Aizen somewhat, but unohana's power has stagnated as she rarely fights. She powerful enough to kill 'Spirits are forever with you' kenpachi over and over again, this same kenpachi took down 3 sternritter and was one shotted by fake yhwach, while a weakened Yamamoto with in shikai with one arm was able to albeit for very small time skirmish with the fake yhwach, and that Sōsuke Aizen was said to be relative to him. Yamamoto in his shikai has statements saying that he is the strongest shinigami for the past 1000 years that would include Unohana.
Another thing is that kisuke urahara in the CFYOW novels is stated by tokinada to one shot guys like him. And tokinada is equal and comparable to the nobles including TYBW byakuya, yoruichi and isshin. That same kisuke urahara then goes up against a Fullbringer named Aura michibane who on the same level on power as base Sōsuke Aizen, kisuke urahara does well against her using high level kidos like 99 but she beats kisuke urahara up. Kisuke being stated to one shot guys like tokinada is major thing and tokinada if I recall correctly is lower than Aizen as he himself states he as not nearly enough SP when using kyoka suigetsu kyoka suigetsu and ryujin jakka. How this match to unohana is that byakuya kuchiki was able blow Gerard Valkyrie's head off, but even if you don't want to count that, kisuke fought and defeated askin nakk le var, one the strongest sternritter and a member of the elite guard.
I know renji said that "we have been training to become relative to guys like Aizen" but this statement has little value and surely does not apply to byakuya let alone renji post timeskip, in the data books it was stated even with one arm Yamamoto was stated to be the strongest captains, and in bis shikai which Aizen is relative too, he killed two about 2 sternritters, blew away as nodt the same guy who stole byakuya's bankai (to do that you must be relative to the person from whom ur stealing from as said by yhwach) and as nodt and nanana najakoba something that wierd sternritter whose name I don't remember both got bodied by shikai Yamamoto and only survived cause bazz b a sternritter relative to shikai Yamamoto as he cancelled his flames to save as nodt and the other guy. And another thing to note is that Aizen feared kenpachi zaraki's potential (feared doesn't mean if I through kenpachi in the ring with Aizen he's gonna cut him) it just means he might evolve to awaken his shikai mid battle if Aizen was winning and he might become more potentially if Aizen played around. And Aizen after slaughtering the Gotei 13 in Fake karakura he went to Yamamoto and said now with your army gone it's not even easy for you to stop me, and Aizen continued to say that if you were to fall the Gotei 13 would be done for, this is very important cause when Aizen made this statement UNOHANA WAS LITERALLY METERS AWAY FROM HIM AND HE DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO MENTIONED HER.(edited)
He made contingency plans for Yamamoto cause he knew Yamamoto was stronger he feared zaraki's potential to achieve zanjutsu but now in the same way as Yamamoto as it was said 'Spirits are forever with you' that Aizen with each next evolution of the hogyuko was growing so strong that he didn't even know, he couldn't know cause he was surprised every time he evolved in this 2nd fusion he even stated no in soul society can beat me now and the novel also said Aizen became so confident after his second transformation he didn't even fear zaraki anymore. My point is just like Yamamoto said Aizen was never a threat to him, logically it would refer to his bankai, Aizen never considered anyone except Yamamoto a real threat, I know that he feared zaraki's potential but remember zaraki at time and even in 'Spirits are forever with you' was espada top tier level as he beat Cien granz. If Aizen someone who once taught at the soul society, knew about zaraki's potential, sealed Yamamoto's shikai, knew about yhwach vs Yamamoto 1000 year battle and he even knew the truth behind the soul society and saw it for what if really was, so if he didn't even mention unohana being a hindrance to his plan he might as well be confident enough to take her down.
Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai, 1st Division Taicho/SouTaichou
Strength: 100
Defence: 100
Mobility: 100
Kidou: 100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 60
Total : 560
Sōsuke Aizen, Former 5th Division Taicho/Arrancar Leader
Strength: 100
Defence: 90
Mobility: 90
Kidou:100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 80
Total: 560
Retsu Unohana, 4th Division Taicho
Strength: 100
Defence: 80
Mobility: 70
Kidou: 100
Intellect: 100
Physical Strength: 90
Total: 540
Unohana is more a equal to shunsui and jushiro as they the oldest captains
Note : in one of the bleach databooks it was said thag Sōsuke Aizen had mastered all shinigami arts Zanjutsu Kido Hoho Hakuda
tl;dr, with all things considered, even if Aizen is confident in defeating Unohana, it would be high difficulty and he would maybe have one of his underlings do the for him instead, too much hassle
Of course Yamamoto has canonically mollywopped Unohana to make her join the Gotei 13 so she's not stronger than him
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There are some problems with this like the statement where if Yamamoto would fall than nobody there would stop Aizen. Unohana in character wouldnt fight Aizen and only would fight kenpachi. Even if other people’s lives are in danger, she wouldn’t fight Aizen. She gave that up and is only waiting for kenpachi
This also makes sense as there’s no reason to fear zaraki as Unohana is, at this point, thousands of times stronger than him. That is why she wouldn’t be considered a threat as she wouldn’t fight. This is also backed up by other statements
also nothing at all implies this so idk where he got that from
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Two words... BAN...KAI
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- #45
Well I’m not saying she wouldn’t lose. But I’m saying nothing implies they ever fought. Kinda goes against her narrative too lol
Guacamolefletcher
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what???? where is this ever stated or implied in the slightest? This is clearly headcanon. Though your conclusion isn't inherently wrong here, the way of getting there is.
Guacamolefletcher
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NOTHING EVER states anyone is relative to base aizen, that is ridiculous. In fact, we only get ANTI FEATS for this. Tokinada roughly = Byakuya = Yoruichi
Yet, Tokinada <<<<<<<<<<< Base Aizen and his Kyoka Suygetsu.
Guacamolefletcher
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No, they say that he hasn't been surpassed for 1000 years, while the Unohana-Kenpachi skirmish and story happened 2000 years ago.
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Isshin is pretty relative to base Aizen
Guacamolefletcher
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Clearly not, since aizen was exhausted with the Hogyoku.
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Also SS/Arrancar Kenpachi > Aizen
Guacamolefletcher
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no need to derail the thread
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No what the ****?
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Which Aizen are we talking about here? CFYOW might as well be talking about Muken/TYBW Aizen
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It’s referring to base Aizen but just wait till arc does his verse wide revisions that should be coming in the summer
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Just so we're all clear, the blurb that was powerscaling Aizen and Unohana was referring to SS/Arrancar Aizen without the Hogyoku powering him up
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Yes it’s referring to Arrancar arc/ss Aizen
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I agree that Unohana probably is in the same realm of power as post-Unohana fight eyepatch Zaraki. Considering she was fighting Zaraki while he was slowly unlocking more of his power (without an eyepatch), and Zaraki wasn't able to kill her until he got 100% of his power, so while he was at like 80, 90, 95% (using these numbers to make a point not to be exact) she was likely still able to clash with him. Basically the scaling chain is Gremmy ~ eyepatch Zaraki < no eyepatch Zaraki > Unohana. So I'd say Unohana should scale to wherever we scale Gremmy.
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Do you mean base gremmy or when he creates 6 clones ?
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Base. We aint scaling Unohana to ShiKen lol
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Cause I think the op was trying to argue she stronger than eye patch shiken and relative to no eyepatch zaraki which I don’t agree. And superior to gremmy after he makes his clones by trying to use the mayuri statement In spafwy that his new eyepatch drains 10x more power than the last.
also they suggested that the eyepatch nerfs him by 100x which I don’t agree with multipliers its too much headcanon to put an exact number on that.
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Yeah no.
She can scale to/above base Gremmy. We ain’t scaling her to any version of ShiKen.
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at best unohana>=base gremmy I can see the arguments to her being above base gremmy but I would still view that as them being relative to one another.
lets close this and wait until the verse revisions are done for this arc since her profile is going to have to be changed during then anyways.
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Excellence616
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That would be 6-A.
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Yeah the verse revisions can't come soon enough.
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Give me the crt link when that happens, let's get 4-A Gremmy!!
Guacamolefletcher
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Only if it's backed up by the anime
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Sounds Good.
Guacamolefletcher
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Oh boy, there's a lot more from SAFWY that would upgrade that Kenpachi, but we gotta let Arc7 cook, when he gets to it
Guacamolefletcher
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I can name one simple example, current Kenpachi's speed pre-cfyow is terrible, he's slower than second release ulquiorra and even Zommari while in shikai.
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I also think there is a case to be made for 2-A Almighty, it is similar to Astral Order from the Gunvolt series which allows the user to see innumerable and countless fates and futures, and then choose one to their liking, described as choosing from a wide sea of countless stars, and I think these imgur scans say it all:
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Why are you talking about the Almighty in a thread about Unohana?
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God works in mysterious ways.
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Well, I already did make mention of 4-A Gremmy, thought I'd mention this too
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