Possible upgrade to Cosmology and Anos Voldigoad - Maou Gakuin

[imZer0Null]

Hmm okay...

To explain what I quoted, you can imagine the Silver Sea as well, an ocean. The countless worlds would be the bubbles that you see on the ocean. The different worlds all form at different times, and are isolated from one another. They all have their own timeline, since they all need to evolve on their own and gain their own Lord God and Head of State. Just like bubbles in the ocean, they also pop. The different worlds all either fail to evolve and destroy themselves or achieve evolution and become aware of the Silver Sea. Once they evolve, they also get unique names that tell you the main order of the world, for example "Magic Bullet World" or "Disaster World". I think this supports the fact that they are space-time continuums since they are born at different times (The world's time also starts when they are born), undergo their own histories (Gaining their own Lord God and Head of State), and then either die or evolve. There also only exists 1 version of each person across the entire Silver Sea.

From chapter 584 of the WN.

"The abyss world has sunk too deep into this sea, so we can't usually even perceive its existence."

Just another quote. Might be evidence for 1-B, might not.

Since the 1-B most likely won't be accepted, does that mean that Anos will just be unfathomably high into 2-B?


Regarding the Anos Voldigoad Upgrades, Oblivion has already given reasons as to why they could be accepted.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah I highly doubt 1-B will be accepted, but hey, at least he'll be unimaginably high into 2-B.

 

[imZer0Null]

Hahaha... Like I said, I also didn't think the 1-B stuff would be accepted... No harm in trying tho, right?

Still tho, I thought that if 4D AP couldn't even destroy a 3D object, it might be possible.

 

[Ogbunabali]

To explain what I quoted, you can imagine the Silver Sea as well, an ocean. The countless worlds would be the bubbles that you see on the ocean. The different worlds all form at different times, and are isolated from one another. They all have their own timeline, since they all need to evolve on their own and gain their own Lord God and Head of State. Just like bubbles in the ocean, they also pop. The different worlds all either fail to evolve and destroy themselves or achieve evolution and become aware of the Silver Sea. Once they evolve, they also get unique names that tell you the main order of the world, for example "Magic Bullet World" or "Disaster World". I think this supports the fact that they are space-time continuums since they are born at different times (The world's time also starts when they are born), undergo their own histories (Gaining their own Lord God and Head of State), and then either die or evolve. There also only exists 1 version of each person across the entire Silver Sea.

I mean, this is functionally a mutliverse and we usually default to them as such unless actively contradicted so I'm honestly fine with it.

Regarding the Anos Voldigoad Upgrades, Oblivion has already given reasons as to why they could be accepted.

You'd have to remind me as I'm kinda lost on everything else now.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yes I agree

 

[imZer0Null]

Anos Voldigoad Upgrades

- Corrosion Inducement
Anos' blood corrodes the world.

- Absorption
Anos was able to absorb Graham's source into his source, and after absorbing Graham, he "inherited" magic spells that only Graham could use.

- Resistance to Regeneration Negation (High-Godly)

From chapter 556 of the WN.

"Kostoria's principle destroying sword is swung down on the defenceless Sasha. The dark-coloured blade slashed diagonally from her shoulder to her torso. A deadly blow that destroyed even the roots. However, Sasha, who seemed to be torn apart, was unharmed-- Her principle destroying sword destroyed that reason..."

Both Sasha and Kostoria were wielding Venuzdonoa in this fight. We already know that Venuzdonoa denies regeneration up to High-Godly just by being summoned. Sasha's roots were destroyed by an attack from Venuzdonoa, but she then used Venuzdonoa to regen her roots while the other Venuzdonoa was still around.
Since she could perform High-Godly regen, not by herself but by using Venuzdonoa, while another Venuzdonoa was around, it's safe to say that Venuzdonoa grants it's wielder Resistance to Regeneration Negation.

- Graham's source
It's already been established that Anos absorbed Graham's source, and there after he gained Graham's abilities. Anos can freely use and manipulate Graham's source, which is absorbed into his own source. Since his source is basically the same as Graham's, he would gain any abilities that is related to Graham's source, like Resistance to Regeneration Negation and Resistance to Immortality Negation.

I wont touch the 1-B thing here, but regarding other stuff

Anos absorbing Graham's source is kinda already in the profile (plus he already has absorption), so this shouldnt be a debate

Venuzdonoa already has High-Godly negation in the profile, thus Sasha gets resistance to it due to the feat above (and Anos too since he has venuzdonoa)

Graham could resist said negation, and Anos roots is fused with his (again on his profile), thus he gets resistance as well

I also provided the quote where Anos states that his blood corrodes the world... 「俺の血は世界をも腐食する」""My blood corrodes the world"

 

[Ogbunabali]

If all of those are on his profile, then I guess they're fine.

 

[imZer0Null]

Okay... Sorry for the confusion and thx for the assistance

To summarize:

The worlds of the Silver Sea are now Low 2-C.
The 1-B stuff sadly isn't accepted, but Anos will be unfathomably high into 2-B. (Maybe even one of the strongest AP wise)
Reason for this being that if Anos' world is considered Low 2-C, the next layer's world would be Low 2-C+, and the next would be Low 2-C++, and so on 100 times.

And all the Anos Voldigoad upgrades are accepted.

Sound about right?

 

[Pepsiman25th]

agree

 

[Ogbunabali]

Reason for this being that if Anos' world is considered Low 2-C, the next layer's world would be Low 2-C+, and the next would be Low 2-C++, and so on 100 times.

Not sure what you mean here.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

why is sasha just 7-B?
Edit: Okay I got it back, I guess somebody made a troll

 

[imZer0Null]

Not sure what you mean here.

I am not great with tier 1 stuff but based on what I see if a world is a universe and truly a separate space-time continuum then yeah that is Low 2-C but it never compares a deeper world a a higher or transcended dimension rather it just seems like objects are far denser than in shallower worlds. At most this means that destroying a deeper world ship would require Low 2-C+ energy but it doesn't stack dimensionally with each deeper world it is just more plusses stacked on.

Even if the layers aren't considered higher levels of existence, I have given proof that each deeper layer is "countlessly" superior to it's previous shallow layer.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Sure, but we don't really give out stuff like "+" or something. But if he does keep destroying deeper and deeper worlds, then yeah his Low 2-C power would continuously increase to an unquantifiable state.

 

[AncientKing95]

Are we forgetting the fact that there are countless bubbles/worlds(universes) within each layer, making a single layer of the Silver Sea on it's own a multiversal structure?

 

[Makenai]

I'm quite confused, this cosmology is very weird. Like if you destroyed deeper world = destroying multiple shallow worlds? But the difference between shallow worlds and deeper worlds is just deeper worlds are physically superior than shallow worlds, now let's see what's Tiering system page says

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

As the tiering system page said being infinitely stronger than High 3-A isn't enough to qualify for higher tier, the deeper worlds just physically stronger and need more energy to be destroyed as such its should not qualify to any higher tier as destroying a ship of deeper world does not equal to destroying entire space-time continuum unless you're going to say a ship in deeper worlds contain entire space-time continuum of the shallow worlds but looking at the scans OP provided that's very unlikely to be the case.

 

[imZer0Null]

Sure, but we don't really give out stuff like "+" or something. But if he does keep destroying deeper and deeper worlds, then yeah his Low 2-C power would continuously increase to an unquantifiable state.

Yea I know he won't get a "+", but I just wanted to confirm that his Low 2-C AP, and thus possibly his 2-B AP would be unquantifiable...

 

[imZer0Null]

I'm quite confused, this cosmology is very weird. Like if you destroyed deeper world = destroying multiple shallow worlds? But the difference between shallow worlds and deeper worlds is just deeper worlds are physically superior than shallow worlds, now let's see what's Tiering system page says

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

As the tiering system page said being infinitely stronger than High 3-A isn't enough to qualify for higher tier, the deeper worlds just physically stronger and need more energy to be destroyed as such its should not qualify to any higher tier as destroying a ship of deeper world does not equal to destroying entire space-time continuum unless you're going to say a ship in deeper worlds contain entire space-time continuum of the shallow worlds but looking at the scans OP provided that's very unlikely to be the case.

1 universe = Low 2-C not 3-A. Low 2-C AP can't destroy an ordinary object in a deeper world, meaning ordinary object in a deeper world has Low 2-C durability.

 

[Makenai]

1 universe = Low 2-C not 3-A. Meaning that Low 2-C AP can't destroy an ordinary object in a deeper world, meaning it has Low 2-C durability.

You're not get the point, i'm talking about a ship and entire space-time continuum

 

[imZer0Null]

You're not get the point, i'm talking about a ship and entire space-time continuum

A spell capable of destroying an entire space-time continuum in a shallow layer can't destroy a ship in a deeper world. That automatically gives the ship Low 2-C durability. Something capable of destroying the entire deeper world won't be able to destroy another ship in an even deeper layer, and so on...

 

[Makenai]

That's the point, the ship only has low-2C durability, it doesn't equal to destroying multiple space-time continuum, they're just harder than normal low-2C durability, but does that mean it's count as 2-B or higher?

 

[imZer0Null]

No. I didn't say that... Anos gets 2-B since the Silver Sea is a multiverse with countless universes and Anos can destroy said multiverse... His Low 2-C AP, and thus his 2-B AP (Countless Low 2-C structures), would be unquantifiable, for reasons I've already stated.

 

[Makenai]

No. I didn't say that... Anos gets 2-B since the Silver Sea is a multiverse with countless universes and Anos can destroy said multiverse... His Low 2-C AP, and thus his 2-B AP (Countless Low 2-C structures), would be unquantifiable, for reasons I've already stated.

I'm not talking about Anos either.

 

[AncientKing95]

No. I didn't say that... Anos gets 2-B since the Silver Sea is a multiverse with countless universes and Anos can destroy said multiverse... His Low 2-C AP, and thus his 2-B AP (Countless Low 2-C structures), would be unquantifiable, for reasons I've already stated.

Wait wait wait wait a second. Anos can't (until proven otherwise if the story progresses in that direction) destroy the entire Silver Sea. Nowhere in the story has something like that ever been said. If you're basing that off of the statement that, "Venuzdonoa can destroy everything in creation" and Anos is stronger than Venuzdonoa therefore he can destroy the entire Silver Sea, then there are a few things that need to be cleared up. At the time that Anos made that statement about Venuzdonoa, he wasn't aware of the Silver Sea's existence, he was just referring to his own world(The Militia World). Furthermore, all he said was that he could destroy everything in creation, not the actual entire universe("creation") itself.

In any case, Anos' best feat of strength is nearly destroying the Abyss World Eavezino(a deep world) in his fight with Yzak. Due to Yzak's order, a lot of the damage that the world would've taken was mitigated by it's time being stopped before it damaged the world, and even then due to the immense clash of powers between Yzak and Anos the world was heavily damaged(meaning that it would've been completely destroyed if not for Yzak's order).

 

[imZer0Null]

stuff

Principle Destroying Sword <Venuzdnor>: This is Anos's main weapon, it is the sword of the founder which can destroy all creation and the universe. No matter how strong, eternal, or infinite Venuzdonoa will destroy them all.

I know you're a WN reader, so you should also know that Destruction Source > Venuzdnor

And finally, please tell me what is the fate of every Lion of Destruction...

 

[AncientKing95]

Principle Destroying Sword <Venuzdnor>: This is Anos's main weapon, it is the sword of the founder which can destroy all creation and the universe. No matter how strong, eternal, or infinite Venuzdonoa will destroy them all

You should also know that Destruction Source > Venuzdnor

And finally, since I know you're a WN reader, please tell me what is the fate of every Lion of Destruction...

They're not literally able to destroy the entire Silver Sea. Since you're a wn reader(probably), you (should) know the statement Balzarondo made about how the Lions of Destruction possess enough power to destroy entire nations of deep worlds. If they were powerful enough to destroy the Silver Sea, he would've said that. They have the craving to destroy everything within the Silver Sea due to their nature as Lions of Destruction, but they can't actually do it.

As a poor example, imagine if someone had the 'craving' to date 10000 women due to a special genetic trait(yes, it's unrealistic, I'm just making a point albeit very poorly). That doesn't mean they are capable of doing so.

Oh yeah, the whole "Venuzdonoa can destroy the whole universe"-- Anos never said that, nothing in the story ever said that, and it doesn't have any feats of doing so. And again, when Anos said it could destroy everything in creation, he was talking about everything (as in order, etc.) within the Militia World, not in the entire Silver Sea. Orders in shallow worlds are usually not as effective in the Silver Sea outside of their own world, and we see that Sasha's Sun of Doom <Surge El Donave>(which is what was turned into Venuzdonoa) isn't as effective in the Silver Sea. Of course, since Venuzdonoa destroys logic and reason itself, it might not be as weakened as <Surge El Donave>, but it's something to take into consideration.

 

[imZer0Null]

They're not literally able to destroy the entire Silver Sea. Since you're a wn reader(probably), you (should) know the statement Balzarondo made about how the Lions of Destruction possess enough power to destroy entire nations of deep worlds. If they were powerful enough to destroy the Silver Sea, he would've said that. They have the craving to destroy everything within the Silver Sea due to their nature as Lions of Destruction, but they can't actually do it.

As a poor example, imagine if someone had the 'craving' to date 10000 women due to a special genetic trait(yes, it's unrealistic, I'm just making a point albeit very poorly). That doesn't mean they are capable of doing so.

Unless mtl has stabbed me in the back once again, I'm pretty sure the lion of destruction is fated to destroy the Silver Sea...

Anyway, the Venuzdonoa thing still stands, so there's that.

 

[AncientKing95]

Unless mtl has stabbed me in the back once again, I'm pretty sure the lion of destruction is fated to destroy the Silver Sea...

Anyway, the Venuzdonoa thing still stands, so there's that.

Well I elaborated on the whole Venuzdonoa problem in my comment which you just replied to so why don't you go check it out.

 

[imZer0Null]

He said all of creation.
And you're trying to tell me all of creation =/= all of creation... You see what I'm getting at?

If you want to downgrade him so badly, let's just wait a little while longer for the WN... Venuzdonoa hasn't been shown to be any weaker in the Silver Sea YET, so until it's shown to be weaker, we can't assume anything.

 

[Makenai]

Is the Militia world contain multiples universes? Or is Venuznoa really cannot destroy the universe? Is whole Destroying Universes is just MTL? This might affect Anos current tier.

 

[AncientKing95]

Is the Militia world contain multiples universes? Or is Venuznoa really cannot destroy the universe? Is whole Destroying Universes is just MTL? This might affect Anos current tier.

The Militia World is just a single universe.

 

[AncientKing95]

He said all of creation.
And you're trying to tell me all of creation =/= all of creation... You see what I'm getting at?

If you want to downgrade him so badly, let's just wait a little while longer for the WN... Venuzdonoa hasn't been shown to be any weaker in the Silver Sea YET, so until it's shown to be weaker, we can't assume anything.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying(I'd like to clarify that I don't mean this in an offensive way, it may seem like that over text), so let me reiterate; Anos didn't know that anything outside the Militia World existed at the time he made that statement, therefore, when he said "all of creation" he meant all of creation(The Militia World) not all of creation(The Silver Sea). Furthermore, it's proven everything on a deeper layer in the Silver Sea is unfathomably higher in all regards(whether it be amount of fire and dew, exertion and power of order, durability, etc). The Silver Sea is vastly different from the Militia World.

 

[imZer0Null]

And like I said... You're trying to tell me all of creation =/= all of creation...

Until Venuzdonoa is actually shown to be weaker in the Silver Sea, which hasn't happend yet, the fact remains that all of creation = all of creation and Venuzdonoa can destroy it.

 

[imZer0Null]

I kind of feel like this is derailing... So if you wanna downgrade Anos so badly, please go make a seperate CRT...

 

[AncientKing95]

And like I said... You're trying to tell me all of creation =/= all of creation...

Until Venuzdonoa is actually shown to be weaker in the Silver Sea, which hasn't happend yet, the fact remains that all of creation = all of creation.

No, what I'm trying to tell you is that The Militia World =/= The Silver Sea. "All of creation" isn't applicable to the Silver Sea because the "All of creation" that Anos was referring to is just the Militia World. They aren't the same thing.

For example, if I lived in a city and said, "this entire city is poor" because I've been around the entire city and seen that it's poor, I wouldn't be lying. If I then learn that the borders of the city are much wider than I initially thought(meaning I haven't seen the entire city but a portion of it), and I travel to the edge of the borders within the city(past what I initially thought was the entire city) and see that there in fact are rich parts of the city, then my original statement wouldn't be applicable past when I initially said it. It's the same case with Anos' statement.

Even if you didn't think that far, it should still be obvious that Venuzdonoa can't destroy the entire Silver Sea. Do you really think that a weapon created from one of the orders of a shallow(bubble) world could destroy the entire Silver Sea?

 

[imZer0Null]

Good argument. Feel free to make a separate CRT about it and I'll be happy to argue about it further on that CRT.

You know that Venuzdonoa has functioned perfectly fine in the Silver Sea so far, so until it's shown to be weaker, you shouldn't assume that.
Anos said all of creation, and it's literally Venuzdonoa's description. If I have a sword that can destroy all of creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite it is, it can destroy all of creation no matter how strong, eternal or infinite it is...

 

[AncientKing95]

Good argument. Feel free to make a separate CRT about it and I'll be happy to argue about it further on that CRT.

You know that Venuzdonoa has functioned perfectly fine in the Silver Sea so far, so until it's shown to be weaker, you shouldn't assume that.
Anos said all of creation, and it's literally Venuzdonoa's description. If I have a sword that can destroy all of creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite it is, it can destroy all of creation no matter how strong, eternal or infinite it is...

Yeah, I should probably finish up with arguing this point and worry about it later on a different CRT like you said. However, there is one last point I'd like to bring up. I'm not saying that Venuzdonoa itself is any weaker. I'm just saying that the same amount of power it has to easily destroy everything within the Militia World might not be powerful enough to easily destroy everything within the Silver Sea. That doesn't make Venuzdonoa itself any weaker. After all, neither Anos nor anyone else has actually defeated someone with Venuzdonoa in the Silver Sea, and we've seen two(possibly one if Kostoria was the one controlling the doll) people from the Silver Sea wield Venuzdonoa(Kostoria and the Doll).

 

[imZer0Null]

stuff

All good. People have been making the same argument you have on other Anos CRT's, and so far it hasn't been accepted... If you make an Anos CRT specifically for this Venuzdonoa argument tho, you can get experts' opinions on it and it can finally be settled. Sorry if I seemed rude, as it wasn't my intention...

 

[imZer0Null]

Anyways, since everything seems to be settled, I'll make a summary:

All 1-B stuff is not accepted since most evidence was too vague and other evidence also somewhat disproved it. I kinda expected it, but it's still sad that it wasn't accepted...

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.

A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for confirmation)

All the Anos Upgrades, meaning his Corrosion Inducement, Resistance to High-Godly Negation and Immortality Negation is also accepted.

Is this agreeable?

If so, please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can add his upgrades, and then close this thread.

 

[Ian2296]

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Yes i agree with this^

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.
A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B.

But this^, does the deeper layers inhabitant ever shows a feats of destroying space and time? Remember that 3-A exist for a reason, because this is literally why Anos' fist that capable of destroying world, only have 3-A instead of L2-C.

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

In my opinion, if the ship's durability in the higher layer is Low 2-C, it may be Tier 1 that destroys the universe in the higher layer.

Doesn't the power to destroy the universe require higher infinity than destroying ships?