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Possible upgrade to Cosmology and Anos Voldigoad - Maou Gakuin

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In my opinion, if the ship's durability in the higher layer is Low 2-C, it may be Tier 1 that destroys the universe in the higher layer.

Doesn't the power to destroy the universe require higher infinity than destroying ships?
No, that's not how it works....
 
Yes i agree with this^

But this^, does the deeper layers inhabitant ever shows a feats of destroying space and time? Remember that 3-A exist for a reason, because this is literally why Anos' fist that capable of destroying world, only have 3-A instead of L2-C.
We did prove that a world is Low 2-C, and Anos' fist can destroy said Low 2-C world. They specifically said a world, and not just something with the durability of a world, giving him Low 2-C AP.

That feat only had 3-A since his tiering was kinda inaccurate in the first place. It would automatically get Low 2-C when the upgrade is applied.

**I realize I might not have answered your question properly... Yes, they destroy space and time.
 
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inilah mengapa saya netral sekarang.

This CRT was made to upgrade the cosmology of the verse, as well as a few characters who have the Post-Silver Sea key.

Thanks to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless for helping me with this.

Cosmology Upgrades

During the events of the Silver Sea, we find out that there exists a multiverse with countless universes in the shape of bubbles. Further more, it was stated the Silver Sea has 99+ layers, implying each layer has countless universes.

Worlds are universes with near infinite black skies stretched out in all directions. Worlds are described as endless, as it's impossible to leave a world by normal means. The space in a world is distorted, and thus something that flies straight up, naturally changes direction, goes around the world and comes out from below.
The different universes are all separate space-time continuums. That would make the universes of the Silver Sea Low 2-C, and not 3-A.

It's also said that deeper layers are more powerful than shallow layers. Here are some statements to explain the difference between layers:

From chapter 493 of the WN.

"In this little world, which exists deeper than your little world, the power of all things is in another dimension. Strength, speed, stubbornness, magic, everything. Even a grain of air is a weight to you. If I unleash a spell to destroy your shallow world, it won't be able to destroy a single ship here."

What this means in the context of the story is that a spell capable of destroying an entire world in a shallow layer, meaning a Low 2-C structure, isn't capable of destroying an ordinary object in a deeper layer.

"But in that earlier game I was holding back. Even after I went easy on him, the man (Lay) couldn't keep up with my speed."

In this fight, Lay, who has FTL speeds, wasn't able to keep up with a deeper world inhabitant who was holding back, which supports the fact that deeper layers are in another dimension compared to shallow layers.

"I thought I'd been thrown off by the sheer force of the blast, but I didn't know that the hull of the ship was unscathed. It is indeed stronger than the matter of my world."

This statement says that even the matter that makes up a deeper layer is in another dimension compared to that of a shallow layer.

The difference between layers doesn't just apply to physical stuff. Anos is extremely strong, capable of overpowering some deeper world inhabitants with his strength, and is also a "misfit", which means he has Acausality type 4, yet his spells are mostly useless in deeper layers. He should be strong enough to overpower deeper world inhabitants with his spells, yet the only way Anos can make his spells useful again is by "deepening" them, which means non-physical stuff like spells are also affected by the difference in layers.

E.g. <Dogda Azbedara>: Supreme Flame Magic Heavy Cannon. Highly explosive flame magic that trails towards the enemy in the form of a blue star. As a deep magic, its power is far beyond <Jio Graze>, to the point that it's not even comparable.

From chapter 579 of the WN.

"Fire and dew is the order of life. Its quantity is the foundation of the Small World, which determines the depth of the world. It is no exaggeration to say that Silver Water Shogi uses the Small World itself as its pawns."

"Using the fire and dew as pawns would indeed be equivalent to using the world itself as a pawn."


"If you lose the fire and dew, the world will be destroyed."

"You're going to deal with 169 small worlds. Head of the Militia World, Anos Voldigoad."


Deeper world inhabitants see shallow worlds as shogi pieces. To explain, they are using 169 universes from a shallow layer as pawns in a game of shogi, currently being played in a deeper layer. Fire and dew make up the different worlds, and the amount of fire and dew in a world is directly responsible for determining in which layer the world is in.

If a shogi piece is destroyed, the corresponding universe is destroyed, since they're the same thing.


With all these statements, I believe that a deeper layer qualifies as a higher level of existence. Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers, meaning 100 layers at minimum, I also think it qualifies as a 1-B structure.

Currently, the Post-Silver Sea characters have all ventured at least 21 layers deeper in the Silver Sea, giving them 21 levels into 1-B.
Venuzdonoa, which can destroy all of creation, as well as Anos who is superior to it, also gain 100 levels into 1-B.

**Giving them "possibly 1-B" is also fine.


Anos Voldigoad Upgrades

- Corrosion Inducement
Anos' blood corrodes the world.

- Absorption
Anos was able to absorb Graham's source into his source, and after absorbing Graham, he "inherited" magic spells that only Graham could use.

- Resistance to Regeneration Negation (High-Godly)

From chapter 556 of the WN.

"Kostoria's principle destroying sword is swung down on the defenceless Sasha. The dark-coloured blade slashed diagonally from her shoulder to her torso. A deadly blow that destroyed even the roots. However, Sasha, who seemed to be torn apart, was unharmed-- Her principle destroying sword destroyed that reason..."

Both Sasha and Kostoria were wielding Venuzdonoa in this fight. We already know that Venuzdonoa denies regeneration up to High-Godly just by being summoned. Sasha's roots were destroyed by an attack from Venuzdonoa, but she then used Venuzdonoa to regen her roots while the other Venuzdonoa was still around.
Since she could perform High-Godly regen, not by herself but by using Venuzdonoa, while another Venuzdonoa was around, it's safe to say that Venuzdonoa grants it's wielder Resistance to Regeneration Negation.

- Graham's source
Sudah ditetapkan bahwa Anos menyerap sumber Graham, dan di sana setelah dia memperoleh kemampuan Graham. Anos dapat dengan bebas menggunakan dan memanipulasi sumber Graham, yang diserap ke dalam sumbernya sendiri. Karena sumbernya pada dasarnya sama dengan milik Graham, dia akan memperoleh kemampuan apa pun yang berhubungan dengan sumber Graham, seperti Resistensi terhadap Negasi Regenerasi dan Perlawanan terhadap Negasi Keabadian.


Peningkatan Kosmologi dan Peningkatan Anos Voldigoad terpisah, jadi harap tentukan apa yang Anda setujui / tidak setujui.

Setuju: [USER = 10859] @ Dereck03 [/ USER], [USER = 11117] @ Rustobal10 [/ USER] [USER = 10392] @ Yar_R_agi_7k [/ USER] [USER = 10623] @ Ian2296 [/ USER] (Anos Voldigoad Peningkatan) [USER = 11621] @XRizkyx [/ USER] [USER = 9594] @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless [/ USER] (Peningkatan Voldigoad Anos) [USER = 11674] @Bernkastelll [/ USER] [USER = 10236] @Great_kingER_frog [/ USER_frog ]
Disagree: @Rikimarox2 (1-B stuff) @Lapsad (1-B stuff) @Guileal (1-B stuff) @Planck69 (1-B stuff) @Delta333 (1-B stuff) @Ned_the_outer_god (1-B stuff)
Neutral: @Vietthai96 @Ian2296 (1-B stuff)
Agree
 
In my opinion, if the ship's durability in the higher layer is Low 2-C, it may be Tier 1 that destroys the universe in the higher layer.

Doesn't the power to destroy the universe require higher infinity than destroying ships?
I also thought something like this...
My argument was that something with Low 2-C AP (4D AP), isn't able to destroy ordinary objects, or to be specific a ship, in a deeper layer. Then something with AP capable of destroying an entire deeper world (Which I thought would at least be 5D AP), would once again not be able to destroy a ship in an even deeper layer, and so on, but they said that's incorrect and that he would rather just be an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C.
 
Yep. I now know that.

Anyways, since everything seems to be settled, I'll make a summary:

All 1-B stuff is not accepted since most evidence was too vague and other evidence also somewhat disproved it. I kinda expected it, but it's still sad that it wasn't accepted...

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.

A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for confirmation)

All the Anos Upgrades, meaning his Corrosion Inducement, Resistance to High-Godly Negation and Immortality Negation is also accepted.

Is this agreeable?

If so, please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can add his upgrades, and then close this thread.

Agreeable?
 
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Anyways, since everything seems to be settled, I'll make a summary:

All 1-B stuff is not accepted since most evidence was too vague and other evidence also somewhat disproved it. I kinda expected it, but it's still sad that it wasn't accepted...

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.

A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for conformation)

All the Anos Upgrades, meaning his Corrosion Inducement, Resistance to High-Godly Negation and Immortality Negation is also accepted.

Is this agreeable?

If so, please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can add his upgrades, and then close this thread.
Or would this be better?
 
Anyways, since everything seems to be settled, I'll make a summary:

All 1-B stuff is not accepted since most evidence was too vague and other evidence also somewhat disproved it. I kinda expected it, but it's still sad that it wasn't accepted...

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.

A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for conformation)

All the Anos Upgrades, meaning his Corrosion Inducement, Resistance to High-Godly Negation and Immortality Negation is also accepted.

Is this agreeable?

If so, please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can add his upgrades, and then close this thread.
This is mostly fine, though the Corrosion was the only thing that didn't get addressed by Oblivion Of The Endless and wasn't provided any scans for. So that'd need a scan first.

And about the Low 2-C.
A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for conformation)
The logic here is fine if they're destroying the whole space-time manifold, although they won't be reaching into 2-B if they're destroying them one by one regardless of how deeper the worlds are. But it's also referencing "a spell", which I'm assuming is from this quote:
"In this little world, which exists deeper than your little world, the power of all things is in another dimension. Strength, speed, stubbornness, magic, everything. Even a grain of air is a weight to you. If I unleash a spell to destroy your shallow world, it won't be able to destroy a single ship here."
Which is way too little information to qualify this as Low 2-C, at face value this'd be 3-A. Unless there's another spell being talked about. You'd need info that they are destroying the whole timeline, a "universe/world" destruction is only 3-A without further context for Low 2-C.
 
The 1-B part actually already discussed long time ago and the feats you bring here doesn't really rated them at tier 1 (actually I'm used to bring up these same feats too and proceed to realized it's not qualified to our higher dimensional term)

Unless you bring the very solid evidence to it

"The abyss world has sunk too deep into this sea, so we can't usually even perceive its existence."

^and bout this the 99 layer world
dwellers could barely seeing it


For the 2-B part i'm actually always Interpreted like that (each layer has it's own countless universe) so I'm agree for this stuff and the abilities part
 
I think 3-A, possibly Low 2-C is better.

But again i'm neutral cause yeah there are two problem:
The Tier 1 part like many members said above
And the Low 2-C part, we don't exactly know if it is truly Low 2-C cause we don't have something solid to prove separate space-time continuum, i mean yeah the Silver have like.......uh 99+ layer whatever, but it could be that those 99+ layer being enfolded/wraped by a single space-time continuum, it is similar in case to Dragon Ball cosmology, like each universe have different universal size dimension in it but it is wraped by a single space-time continuum
 
I think 3-A, possibly Low 2-C is better.

But again i'm neutral cause yeah there are two problem:
The Tier 1 part like many members said above
And the Low 2-C part, we don't exactly know if it is truly Low 2-C cause we don't have something solid to prove separate space-time continuum, i mean yeah the Silver have like.......uh 99+ layer whatever, but it could be that those 99+ layer being enfolded/wraped by a single space-time continuum, it is similar in case to Dragon Ball cosmology, like each universe have different universal size dimension in it but it is wraped by a single space-time continuum
The thing is, militia world said to be infinite sky,impossible to leave to be precise, and the ship that could travel them to silver sea world can get out of it, after they are leaving militia world, militia world microscoply becoming bubbles, and it's realized there's countless other bubbles that look like militia world, also not to mentionn there's still 99+ layers

The 99+ layers was wrapped in structure called silver sea
 
i don't thing those layer mean space-time continuum though, those words in context are pretty vague, but again i'm not well-versed with the series, that why i'm neutral though
 
I think 3-A, possibly Low 2-C is better.

But again i'm neutral cause yeah there are two problem:
The Tier 1 part like many members said above
And the Low 2-C part, we don't exactly know if it is truly Low 2-C cause we don't have something solid to prove separate space-time continuum, i mean yeah the Silver have like.......uh 99+ layer whatever, but it could be that those 99+ layer being enfolded/wraped by a single space-time continuum, it is similar in case to Dragon Ball cosmology, like each universe have different universal size dimension in it but it is wraped by a single space-time continuum
I don't have the scans for this, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. Anyways, while only 14,000 years passed since a certain event occured in the Silver Sea, 700 million years passed in the Militia World.
 
Oh yeah, the whole "Venuzdonoa can destroy the whole universe"-- Anos never said that, nothing in the story ever said that, and it doesn't have any feats of doing so. And again, when Anos said it could destroy everything in creation, he was talking about everything (as in order, etc.) within the Militia World, not in the entire Silver Sea.
You seems like to forgot the part regarding it can destroy everything, no matter how eternal and infinite. So it does qualify as destroying all of creation in the sense of all things in the verse. And it was accepted in the previous CRT and otherwise, make a new one. And this is derailing.
 
I don't have the scans for this, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. Anyways, while only 14,000 years passed since a certain event occured in the Silver Sea, 700 million years passed in the Militia World.
Oh well thank for the clarification though
 
i don't thing those layer mean space-time continuum though, those words in context are pretty vague, but again i'm not well-versed with the series, that why i'm neutral though
those layer are not spatial dimension in general because it's not qualified to it but still relevant to call it layers
I don't have the scans for this, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. Anyways, while only 14,000 years passed since a certain event occured in the Silver Sea, 700 million years passed in the Militia World.
The scan
 
Anyway, I don't understand why we should consider the world as only 3-A and not Low 2-C, if as far as I know, we treat the "world" in the sense of "universe" as Low 2-C by default unless there is a contradiction, if there is none, then Low 2-C it is.

Alternatively with this, we'll have fucktons of verses should be revised because some of them do not even imply that the universes in the multiverse do have separated spacetime continuums from one to the another, since there is still a possibility that they have the usage of Max Tegmark's Level I Multiverse or Brian Greene's quilted multiverse.

So it should be Low 2-C via our standards, in my opinion.
 
You seems like to forgot the part regarding it can destroy everything, no matter how eternal and infinite. So it does qualify as destroying all of creation in the sense of all things in the verse. And it was accepted in the previous CRT and otherwise, make a new one. And this is derailing.
Yes, it can destroy everything, no matter how eternal and infinite, within the boundaries of the Militia World. To say that it could destroy the entire Silver Sea is some far reaching that you don't have a concrete basis for. In any case, I already acknowledged in a later post that this wasn't the place to talk about this and that I'll probably create a seperate CRT specifically for this later.
 
not to mention militia world has it's own time gods,future gods and past gods ,order are somethin that makes up reality ,the order between each worlds are different,also don't forget bout the time lag between militia world and silver sea

these two should be strong enough to justifice low 2-c part
 
Yes, it can destroy everything, no matter how eternal and infinite, within the boundaries of the Militia World. To say that it could destroy the entire Silver Sea is some far reaching that you don't have a concrete basis for. In any case, I already acknowledged in a later post that this wasn't the place to talk about this and that I'll probably create a seperate CRT specifically for this later.
i personally didn't see how venuzdonoa doesn't work on deeper layers cuz it's gg sword anyway ,the explanation also clearly support it

until venuzdonoa showed up being useless in the silver sea

no matter how eternal and infinite part should be ignored ,but currently it's not
 
Yes, it can destroy everything, no matter how eternal and infinite, within the boundaries of the Militia World. To say that it could destroy the entire Silver Sea is some far reaching that you don't have a concrete basis for. In any case, I already acknowledged in a later post that this wasn't the place to talk about this and that I'll probably create a seperate CRT specifically for this later.
I'm disagree with your points but yeah, let's not going further with this.
 
This is mostly fine, though the Corrosion was the only thing that didn't get addressed by Oblivion Of The Endless and wasn't provided any scans for. So that'd need a scan first.

And about the Low 2-C.

The logic here is fine if they're destroying the whole space-time manifold, although they won't be reaching into 2-B if they're destroying them one by one regardless of how deeper the worlds are. But it's also referencing "a spell", which I'm assuming is from this quote:

Which is way too little information to qualify this as Low 2-C, at face value this'd be 3-A. Unless there's another spell being talked about. You'd need info that they are destroying the whole timeline, a "universe/world" destruction is only 3-A without further context for Low 2-C.

From chapter 255 of the WN.

"Sure, it makes sense."

The tip of the crystal collapses.

"My blood also corrodes the world"

<Kandakui Zolte> turns into black rust, crumbles and crumbles, and scatters around.

"The Demon King's blood can only be used with a great attack. If you don't have the power to accept the protection, it may cause fatal damage to the world."


For his Corrosion Inducement.


As for the Low 2-C, I first want to confirm that the worlds are at least treated as Low 2-C, right? If so, that means that each bubble (universe) is it's own space-time continuum.
The attacks and spells they mention all actually destroy the entire bubble, and doesn't just leave an empty bubble devoid of matter. Since the entire bubble is destroyed, and a bubble is a space-time continuum, that would be Low 2-C if I'm not mistaken.

**Also yes, I know they won't reach 2-B by destroying a ton of universes one at a time.
 
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For his Corrosion Inducement.
Seems good.
As for the Low 2-C, I first want to confirm that the worlds are at least treated as Low 2-C, right? If so, that means that each bubble (universe) is it's own space-time continuum.
The attacks and spells they mention all actually destroy the entire bubble, and doesn't just leave an empty bubble devoid of space. Since the entire bubble is destroyed, and a bubble is a space-time continuum, that would be Low 2-C if I'm not mistaken.
If they do, then yeah probably. But as I said if it was referring to that quote of "a spell can destroy the world" then it wouldn't be enough.
 
From chapter 580 of the WN.

"Apparently, at the very least, his fists are powerful enough to destroy the world"
"That's just unbelievable! If he had such tremendous power, the bubble world of Militia could have been destroyed just by his existence! It's not like Elenesia would be completely unscathed..."
"... He suppressed ... that much power ... even in the deep world ..."


Here's another quote where they state he could destroy the world. They specifically mention that the bubble world of Militia, meaning the entire "bubble" (space-time continuum), would be destroyed. Also, like I've mentioned previously, when worlds are destroyed, the "bubble" would "pop", which would mean the entire space-time continuum is destroyed, and not just the matter in the world.
 
@Wokistan and friends

What do you think about this?
Ant what do you think I am going to think about a verse I have literally never heard of before being upgraded with a bunch of really context specific stuff, all I can do at that point would be to act as a judge so someone would need to have actually provided a counterargument first when I have no stake in the topic at all
 
Anyways, since everything seems to be settled, I'll make a summary:

All 1-B stuff is not accepted since most evidence was too vague and other evidence also somewhat disproved it. I kinda expected it, but it's still sad that it wasn't accepted...

The worlds (universes) of the Silver Sea (multiverse) are accepted as Low 2-C. They are all their own isolated space-time continuums.

Since the Silver Sea has 99+ layers and countless universes, it would make the minimum size of the Silver Sea countless * 100 into 2-B.

A spell capable of destroying a Low 2-C structure in a shallow layer (first layer) cannot destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer (second layer). This at most means that to destroy an ordinary object in a deeper layer, it would require "Low 2-C+" AP. The "+" would then theoretically stack up for each deeper layer (third layer up to the 100th layer), leading to an unquantifiable amount into Low 2-C, and possibly also into 2-B. (Won't be added to anyone's tier. This is only here for confirmation)

All the Anos Upgrades, meaning his Corrosion Inducement, Resistance to High-Godly Negation and Immortality Negation is also accepted.

Is this agreeable?

If so, please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can add his upgrades, and then close this thread.
Here's the summary.
 
Wokistan:

Well, sometimes there are not a sufficient amount of knowledgeable staff members available to evaluate a verse, and then we have to go by the presented evidence instead. Otherwise only popular verses would have profile pages in the wiki.

Anyway, it seems like Ogbunabali, Ionliosite, and others have accepted everything here except for 1-B, if I am not mistaken.
 
1-B is WAY too farfetched considering there's not even enough clarity in feats, statements, or other forms of lore to really even hint at it unlike in something like the Magi verse.
 
Anyway, it seems like Ogbunabali, Ionliosite, and others have accepted everything here except for 1-B, if I am not mistaken.
I can't really speak for the others, but it also seems to me that everything except the 1-B stuff has been accepted.
If that's so, could you please unlock Anos Voldigoad's profile so I can apply the changes, and then after that close this thread?
 
I will unlock the profile page. Tell us here when you are done.
 
I will unlock the profile page. Tell us here when you are done.
I have applied the changes to Anos Voldigoad's profile.
I still need to apply the Low 2-C upgrade to the rest of the Maou Gakuin verse, but I believe you can now close this thread.
 
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