-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Possible Solaris and Illumina Downgrades and my Apology to Vs Battles.
- Thread starter Adamjensen2030
- Start date
- Status
- 32,359
- 20,298
What would they be if not universes? The worlds we go in the game have visible suns and stars, and when you traverse through the 4th Dimension you can see that each is presented as a bubble in a much wider realm, akin to various representations of the multiverse.
- 1,007
- 15
- Thread starter
- #43
I agree with Metal and Paleo.
- 445
- 50
Well, I found a couple things while looking... apparently, Illumina had not necessarily created Maginaryworld, the Precioustone nor the 4th Dimension. But at the same time, she... did.
Illumina dreamed of and wished for Maginaryworld, and Void ended up being created because of it. Supposedly, Void represents a piece of all dreams, and is essential for them coming true. I personally don't think "wishing for this to exist" counts as a feat, because then literally everyone in Sonic has a Low 2-C feat. Also, about the Precioustone... well, apparently its five shards only have one dream each, representing different aspects of every dream. For example, Lumina says, "A tropical island paradise created from the dreams of those who enjoy the su." She later says "The spirit of dreams are to travel through air, land, sea, and even between stars... There may be differences but the spirit is the same... like the phoenix." So, the Precioustone might be a lot smaller than we thought. Regardless, that still leaves the 4th Dimension, and questions of whether or not Illumina truthfully scales, since wishing for something to exist and dreaming for it... I dunno if that's valid case for a feat. Anyway...
Also, they could be pocket dimensions. That's what a lot of things are written off as when there's not sufficient evidence. Also, Sonic describes the worlds demonstrated in the bubbles as if they were shot on a screen... almost like they're flat. Makes me wonder if they're just portals(?). Who knows though.
Regardless, for Illumina, it seems that there's a bit too much against her being 2-B, besides wishing and dreaming for something to exist and then it exists and the very slight possibility of Maginaryworld containing universes. Unless someone disagrees?
Illumina dreamed of and wished for Maginaryworld, and Void ended up being created because of it. Supposedly, Void represents a piece of all dreams, and is essential for them coming true. I personally don't think "wishing for this to exist" counts as a feat, because then literally everyone in Sonic has a Low 2-C feat. Also, about the Precioustone... well, apparently its five shards only have one dream each, representing different aspects of every dream. For example, Lumina says, "A tropical island paradise created from the dreams of those who enjoy the su." She later says "The spirit of dreams are to travel through air, land, sea, and even between stars... There may be differences but the spirit is the same... like the phoenix." So, the Precioustone might be a lot smaller than we thought. Regardless, that still leaves the 4th Dimension, and questions of whether or not Illumina truthfully scales, since wishing for something to exist and dreaming for it... I dunno if that's valid case for a feat. Anyway...
While I would say, personally, that starry skies would be justifiable, we do not take it as such here anyway. Regardless, we have a statement that still stands to contradict many things, as Maginaryworld is only described as a reality, or universe, in the manual.Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, they could be pocket dimensions. That's what a lot of things are written off as when there's not sufficient evidence. Also, Sonic describes the worlds demonstrated in the bubbles as if they were shot on a screen... almost like they're flat. Makes me wonder if they're just portals(?). Who knows though.
Regardless, for Illumina, it seems that there's a bit too much against her being 2-B, besides wishing and dreaming for something to exist and then it exists and the very slight possibility of Maginaryworld containing universes. Unless someone disagrees?
- 32,359
- 20,298
Dude. The worlds are not flat since you can literally go into them, and a multiverse can be reffered to as a world or a reality.
The explanation of the dreams is that whatever you dream of is real in Maginaryworld, such as you dreaming of a beach will create a paradisiac beach with a summer sun, or dreaming of the stars will create an outer space, etc. There is no reason a realm like this wouldn't qualify as 2-B.
The Dreaming from DC Comics is very similar in nature, with dreams taking real form in it.
"I personally don't think "wishing for this to exist" counts as a feat, because then literally everyone in Sonic has a Low 2-C feat"
This is just in-verse metaphysics. I guess DC Comics humans are 1-A because their thoughts and dreams created The Presence.
The explanation of the dreams is that whatever you dream of is real in Maginaryworld, such as you dreaming of a beach will create a paradisiac beach with a summer sun, or dreaming of the stars will create an outer space, etc. There is no reason a realm like this wouldn't qualify as 2-B.
The Dreaming from DC Comics is very similar in nature, with dreams taking real form in it.
"I personally don't think "wishing for this to exist" counts as a feat, because then literally everyone in Sonic has a Low 2-C feat"
This is just in-verse metaphysics. I guess DC Comics humans are 1-A because their thoughts and dreams created The Presence.
- 445
- 50
If that's the case, then why is Illumina different? If that doesn't count as a feat for them, why does it count as a feat for her? Don't understand that part.Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, it's stated to "co-exist" with reality and dreams, as in, the real world... the universe. Which is why I'm saying it's only described as a universe.
Also... when did I say the worlds were flat? I said Sonic's description of them sounded like that. Please don't straw man my argument. I used his description of how the worlds looked to say they might be portals to those worlds, meaning the 4th Dimension would be kinda like a hub. Probably wrong about that, since I have no evidence other than Sonic's description to say that, but it doesn't matter... because even if you dream of stars and the beach, if there's not any evidence that it then forms a universe, it simply does not form one. We have no evidence that any of these dreams are universes besides "stars," which have never been any higher than 4-A without more context, or that "whatever you dream about becomes real," which I had never denied. Finally, them "resembling common representations of a multiverse" doesn't matter either, since as I pointed out, the realm they reside within is only described as a realm co-existing with a universe and a bunch of dreams of an unknown size. Even if those dreams are MSS, then galactically speaking, Maginaryworld being a universe is still fine, since it would dwarf them in size.
- 32,359
- 20,298
It doesn't count as a feat for humans but it counts as a feat for Illumina since she dreams all of Maginaryland and controls dreams.
It's so simple.
The 4th Dimension is also only one part of Maginaryland.
You are overthinking all of this.
It's so simple.
The 4th Dimension is also only one part of Maginaryland.
You are overthinking all of this.
- 445
- 50
But that's not the case, smh.
Illumina dreamt up Maginaryworld and the 4th Dimension (since nothing states she created the Precioustone, just that she's its guardian, which doesn't make you scale), but she does not "control dreams." That is where your argument falls short. There is nothing throughout the game at all that implies such, just that she dreamt and wished for Maginaryworld to exist. The Precioustone is made up of dreams from everyone and is the essence of Maginaryworld's existence; considering that it's stated Maginaryworld is held together by the Precioustone and was created through it, it seems more likely that Illumina wasn't the one to create it anyway. And without her necessarily "controlling dreams" or "creating it," well, there's nothing else to support her being at such a level. With the Precioustone being its essence, and the fact that it's made up of other people's dreams, then Illumina "dreaming and wishing" for Maginaryworld becomes even more questionable as to whether or not that it's a feat.
Finally, even though the 4th Dimension isn't the only place, honestly, it's the only place of worth. Maginaryworld is described as a universe, the Precioustone contains five dreams, and then, the 4th Dimension contains hundreds that are visible alone. The best one to look into in this case would be the one with a possibility of 2-B--the 4th Dimension.
Illumina dreamt up Maginaryworld and the 4th Dimension (since nothing states she created the Precioustone, just that she's its guardian, which doesn't make you scale), but she does not "control dreams." That is where your argument falls short. There is nothing throughout the game at all that implies such, just that she dreamt and wished for Maginaryworld to exist. The Precioustone is made up of dreams from everyone and is the essence of Maginaryworld's existence; considering that it's stated Maginaryworld is held together by the Precioustone and was created through it, it seems more likely that Illumina wasn't the one to create it anyway. And without her necessarily "controlling dreams" or "creating it," well, there's nothing else to support her being at such a level. With the Precioustone being its essence, and the fact that it's made up of other people's dreams, then Illumina "dreaming and wishing" for Maginaryworld becomes even more questionable as to whether or not that it's a feat.
Finally, even though the 4th Dimension isn't the only place, honestly, it's the only place of worth. Maginaryworld is described as a universe, the Precioustone contains five dreams, and then, the 4th Dimension contains hundreds that are visible alone. The best one to look into in this case would be the one with a possibility of 2-B--the 4th Dimension.
- 32,359
- 20,298
She is the Embodiment of Dreams. One half of her can destroy all of Maginaryworld, my man, and she is far more powerful than Void.
She scales 100% to it.
And yes, outright stated "This is the 4th Dimension. The World Illumina dreamed off."
You seem to forget that the whole plot of Shuffle involves Void destroying Maginaryworld.
She scales 100% to it.
And yes, outright stated "This is the 4th Dimension. The World Illumina dreamed off."
You seem to forget that the whole plot of Shuffle involves Void destroying Maginaryworld.
- 445
- 50
Just gonna say... Void was corrupting and destroying dreams one-by-one. That's also part of the plot--you save one, now onto the next. Void made the same progression. And that's of course, saying the dreams are universes to begin with. And him destroying Maginaryworld itself was because he shattered the Precioustone, which is what holds it together.
She scales to Void, but that simply proves she's Low 2-C, if dreams are universes. Being far more powerful than Void still isn't enough even for a 2-C rating due to the gap of the tier. Probably "At least Low 2-C."
Yes, she dreamed of it... but did she actually create it? The Precioustone seems to be what makes the dreams into realms to begin with, considering when Void shattered it, Maginaryworld was going to go kaput.
Anyway, I gotta go. I'll respond more tomorrow.
She scales to Void, but that simply proves she's Low 2-C, if dreams are universes. Being far more powerful than Void still isn't enough even for a 2-C rating due to the gap of the tier. Probably "At least Low 2-C."
Yes, she dreamed of it... but did she actually create it? The Precioustone seems to be what makes the dreams into realms to begin with, considering when Void shattered it, Maginaryworld was going to go kaput.
Anyway, I gotta go. I'll respond more tomorrow.
- 32,359
- 20,298
There are countless worlds, dude. He'd be 2-B even over time. This is Solaris all over again.
Him shattering the Precioustone would still require 2-B power.
She created it by dreaming. Frankly, I"m going to close this since it is an endless back and forth.
Him shattering the Precioustone would still require 2-B power.
She created it by dreaming. Frankly, I"m going to close this since it is an endless back and forth.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
