- 3,711
- 2,690
Hopefully this doesn't take a super long time
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Agreed.Hopefully this doesn't take a super long time
Took the first step I guess:Okay. In lack of further feedback, that is probanly fine then.
Yes.I believe what you meant to say is that Paper Mario and mainline Mario are different characters from different universes within the same multiverse rather than different continuity. (I know it's confusing since continuity normally means timeline which also means universe which in turn has flexible meanings. Not just different timelines within a multiverse, but continuity is used to just mean canon)
My issue with that is that I don't think there is consistency, the amount of anti-feats I have collected shows that in my opinion.I also disagree with Tier 8/7 and think that's far too low to the existence of other feats, and I still do not see the issue with McGuffin based lore scaling so as long as there is consistency.
That can be resolved at a different time, I strongly believe they should be split but it's not directly related to the subject at hand.I also still think Mario and Paper Mario are the same Mario; the older Mario games still imply that, Superstar Saga remake makes that consistent, and Color Splash and Origami King admittedly have arguments for both sides. Though Paper Jam Paper Mario is clearly a different Mario than mainline Mario. But I'm not going to be judgmental towards those who believe otherwise.
No, the paper mario games after that are sequels to the older paper mario games and they're also the same peopleI think the first Paper Mario can maybe be used for normal Mario since some games imply the events of that game happened (Like Superstar Saga) but every other Paper Mario game after that should count as it's own thing.
The paper mario in Paper Jam could be a different paper mario from the one in the paper mario games, like how there's more than 1 Dry Bowser and Metal MarioMario and Paper Mario are the same person yet there's an entire game where they're shown to be different people and team up
BullshitNo one seems to be mentioning this and I want to get this idea out there.
Something we've seen in the series is that Paper Mario is a book within the Mario Universe. This is Seen within Luigi's Mansion and this fact is solidified in Paper jam. If Paper Mario is a book, then someone had to have written it and base the stories around the Mario Characters. The events of Paper Mario could have happened to Mainline Mario(given the callbacks) and Paper Mario itself is just a retelling of those adventures. Somewhere down the line the Book somehow manifested into its own Universe/Dimension.
Actually, it's more likely that book was the book written by the Penguin character Hemmingway.No one seems to be mentioning this and I want to get this idea out there.
Something we've seen in the series is that Paper Mario is a book within the Mario Universe. This is Seen within Luigi's Mansion and this fact is solidified in Paper jam. If Paper Mario is a book, then someone had to have written it and base the stories around the Mario Characters. The events of Paper Mario could have happened to Mainline Mario(given the callbacks) and Paper Mario itself is just a retelling of those adventures. Somewhere down the line the Book somehow manifested into its own Universe/Dimension.
I'd absolutely argue the first 3 are explicitly implied to be sequels to each other, and also connect to the mainline games. Sticker Star era and beyond are arguably different though Origami King still implies the older Paper Mario games are the same Mario. So again, there are arguments on both side. And as for characters being made of paper being literal, there are mainline Mario games where being made of pixels has also been made literal before. So it just seems like a flexible physiology is a common power in the Mario multiverse (Consistent with atoms and molecules in the Mario multiverse being sentient individuals)I think the first Paper Mario can maybe be used for normal Mario since some games imply the events of that game happened (Like Superstar Saga) but every other Paper Mario game after that should count as it's own thing.
He would still count as a sub topic, but I agree a general revote should be done before singling out outliers/PIS. And you are correct XXKing should watch his mouth.This isn't about Paper Mario, guys, we did have a more complete discussion on that subject earlier on in this thread, but right now what we should discuss is what to do with the verse as a whole.
Also, King, you've been banned two times already for toxic behavior (among other things), I really wouldn't advise you to act that rude once again.
Not really, Paper Mario 64 is directly contradicted by other games like Mario Party 5, where the Star Spirits from PM64 reappear with a completely different role in the series and no mention of the Star Rod or realm they protect, the literal only thing they exist for in PM64. That alone alongside the existence of Paper Jam should show that PM & Mainline are two different continuities.I think the first Paper Mario can maybe be used for normal Mario since some games imply the events of that game happened (Like Superstar Saga) but every other Paper Mario game after that should count as it's own thing.
Apologies for re-opening a closed thread but I want the most possible concerned people to see this, I wanted to apologize for pushing for a profile split since, after thinking about it, I strongly disagree with it, and I wanted my opinion to be known since the profile split hasn't really proceeded much (understandably, it's an insane, unrealistic amount of work that would probably never get completed) and I want to at least try to mend my mistake instead of forever leaving the verse in an unfixable limbo. This isn't a content revision, I don't want to lead any massive sweeping revision anymore due to burnout both on the verse and, partially, the site as a whole. I am willing to take a secondary role in helping but I'm tired of debating this verse. I just want to give my opinions in the hope they help supporters come to a conclusion, so I'll be a bit more blunt than I normally would.
First off, Mario is a single canon, there's way too many references between series to ignore that. The exception is Paper Mario, which is clearly its own continuity, but still connected to mainline with Paper Jam. Nobody's putting that (maybe PM stuff aside, but that doesn't concern this) into question. As for the proposal to split among series to make things more consistent, I originally agreed with it, maybe because it was sort of a way to get what I wanted, in a roundabout way (Mario series having more accurate stats), maybe because Zark (Impress) convinced me pretty well that there wasn't any other direction to take other than a Varies rating (which I strongly disagreed and disagree with), and that this superceded my own downgrade, but since she didn't input that much, I was forced to be the one to push it forward, she told me she'd input eventually. Well, she quit the wiki due to unrelated matters I won't get into, so that input never came, this was obviously not all purposeful on her end, at the very least, not the part where she quit, but it does leave me feeling rather sour.
Anyway, as I've thought about it, I think splitting a profile to account for inconsistency is effectively the same as adding a Varies rating with no verse justification. I think it's just a way to hide anti-feats (and outliers) as just a natural part of the character rather than something that disproves higher (and lower?) ratings and completely goes against site standards. There is absolutely no reason Mario's strength should be considered to actually change between series and I regret having ever pushed for it.
What I actually think should be done is what I was originally pushing for in this thread: Mario should be considered as one canon (PM aside), with a single set of stats (powerups, temporary amps, equipment and all similar stuff excluded of course). His AP in my opinion should be in the tier 8/7 range, anything lower is nitpicking to an excessive degree, and anything higher is hiding your head in the sand and ignoring the massive amount of anti-feats I collected which are still very valid. I have no opinion on what the other statistics should be though obviously LS shouldn't be Stellar or anything given that contrasts a sub-cosmic rating.
But again, this is only my opinion. If the majority thinks a profile split is the way to go, I won't stop ya, I personally disagree but at this point I don't care that much and I think you did good work on the Mario Kart profile, and ultimately it'll still lead to more accurate profiles than the current Mario profile whose stats I strongly disagree with. Apologies for making you sit through all this rant, but I had to get this off my chest and I think it may be important for the verse's future.
Alright, I'll go back through the last few pages and see.Okay, but we cannot just suddenly overrule all of the staff members who conclusively voted for a split previously. We need to summon them here again to ask them first.
Do you think we need another CRT for a paper mario profile?A good way to find feats is looking through respect threads, r/respectthreads has a very well-researched and complete collection of feats across Mario games. They probably won't include higher-end feats such as the ones we currently use since they prefer to stick to more face value stuff but it's still very thorough research.