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Alright, just make sure to ping me or @ me or DM me or however this godforsaken fourm works when you do that.
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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating
- Thread starter Armorchompy
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So what needs to be done now?
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Well, to decide whether or not Mario should get a variable tier instead, in order to avoid 3-C Goombas, I suppose.
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Atm we’re collecting feats to find a more coherent Tier I suppose.
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Everyone except 1 staff member agrees with Armorchompy now, is it ok to just start feat gathering now? And if so, should it be done on this thread?
For the record, Goombas have wildly varying power levels and physiologies so they shouldn't even have a species profile, just profile for individual versions
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- Thread starter
- #810
That wouldn't happen anyway, that's completely unrelated.
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First of all, they only really made a statement that we agree with Armor's points that profile split and/or variable tiers are bad ideas. There is still a lot of overall division on where Mario lands with others being plain neutral as long as it sticks to a specific mid point.
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- Thread starter
- #813
Can I consider the matter of the profile split being undone concluded?
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Yes, and the Mario Kart exclusive profile may be deleted if it was already. Though I thought it was iirc.
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- #815
It's not deleted yet. For archiving purposes I've stored it in this sandbox.
FoxySonicMaster108
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Would it be possible to give the Mario cast (well most of them anyway) a consistent tier, but also the other tiers like 3-C as an “at most”? Like “(Consistent Tier), 3-C at most” as I don’t think the cosmic feats should be entirely ignored.
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Who knows, that can be decided later
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If we consider Mario being merged with a Luma at the time, this could explain the sudden jump in stats in Mario Galaxy.
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This has been stated multiple times already but this cannot be explicitly proven. It can just as easily be referring to the space travel ability the Luma grants.
Plus we still have shit like Yoshi's very casual feat that based on the timeline happened at the earliest point of the series and everyone would scale to since it was a random Yoshi. Or if you don't buy it as a Yoshi feat it's just a Kamek feat. Then, I believe there's a MP feat of the cast making stars light up as well.
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What Yoshi feat?
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Yeah lol
Creating the Raphael constellation. Whether it's the random Yoshi or Kamek's magic doesn't matter. It definitely scales regardless and is quite literally the first chronological game of the series.
Creating the Raphael constellation. Whether it's the random Yoshi or Kamek's magic doesn't matter. It definitely scales regardless and is quite literally the first chronological game of the series.
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It could be Raphael just turning into a star if he takes enough damage, so more of Raphael's ability. Yoshi's attacks don't normally turn people into stars so its better to assume that
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That's literally the dumbest goddamn logic.
Sorry. I just don't agree with that logic at all. Kamek even alludes to wanting to make Yoshi into a star. How the **** does that argument make a lick of sense? Raphael just turned into a star just because? You say due to enough damage, okay, so Yoshi inflicted the damage that turned him into a star. To suggest it's some ability they have on death is dumb. It's not the usual deaths in Mario at all where little stars shoot out after they poof, it's literally Raphael going into space and being turned into a star. Assuming all of these roundabout explanations requires much more leaps in logic and more assumptions than the much simpler and likelier interpretation that it's Yoshi or Kamek being the cause since they're both responsible for all of the factors involved in the feat.
Yoshi slams platform into Raphael from underneath, game has to play defeat animation, and right after that he's launched into space and becomes a star. I genuinely don't understand the reasonings in doubting this is a feat. If Yoshi fought a Luma I could understand the doubts but that's not the case at all. Assuming it's not scalable or not a feat requires literal headcanon interpretations.
Sorry. I just don't agree with that logic at all. Kamek even alludes to wanting to make Yoshi into a star. How the **** does that argument make a lick of sense? Raphael just turned into a star just because? You say due to enough damage, okay, so Yoshi inflicted the damage that turned him into a star. To suggest it's some ability they have on death is dumb. It's not the usual deaths in Mario at all where little stars shoot out after they poof, it's literally Raphael going into space and being turned into a star. Assuming all of these roundabout explanations requires much more leaps in logic and more assumptions than the much simpler and likelier interpretation that it's Yoshi or Kamek being the cause since they're both responsible for all of the factors involved in the feat.
Yoshi slams platform into Raphael from underneath, game has to play defeat animation, and right after that he's launched into space and becomes a star. I genuinely don't understand the reasonings in doubting this is a feat. If Yoshi fought a Luma I could understand the doubts but that's not the case at all. Assuming it's not scalable or not a feat requires literal headcanon interpretations.
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Stop talking about the tiering, already. Should I lock this thread, or something?
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Yea?
Lou_change
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Mario gained the star spin explicitly which also let him turn his ground pound into a homing attack, reflects some projectiles, move flip-swap platforms, among other things.
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He uses power stars which grant the user extra power
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- Thread starter
- #830
ye
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- #833
Sorry, I guess I should have made it public but I've realized I don't really enjoy working on big controversial revisions in the last few months, so it's quite unlikely you'll be seeing much from me in regards to this topic. I still hold my beliefs regarding the series' ratings, but I don't really have the energy or interest to pursue them. If anyone is, or is just curious, here's the list of feats Maverick and I had gathered.
I'll unlock the thread briefly so people can respond, just in case.
I'll unlock the thread briefly so people can respond, just in case.
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For the record I'm very willing to help with a downgrade thread, I just don't wanna be the one leading the charge.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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So uh, where did we leave off? I’m pretty sure the only thing in discussion was to just split Mario & Paper Mario but leave all the other subsects of Mario as mainline, yes? Unless something changed?
It’s been several months and all
It’s been several months and all
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So a continuity split revision is back in order.
Personally... That's what I've said before: why keep the Marios as one of the same when Paper Jam literally doubled down on how they are separate beings from separate worlds?! I definitely agree with the verse split, man!
Now, the Varies tier that was attempted before... I personally understand why anyone would want that. The workings of Mario games are very finicky. Wario himself is a prime example of how finicky an individual character can be.
1. Wario Land follows up from Super Mario Land 2, where Wario had actually went up against Mario.
2. Various sports games, most noticeably the Mario Baseball games, have basically made everyone else more or less equal AND heavily nerfed to where they're just as strong as regular people if you gave them Dungeons and Dragons spells. Mario Kart and Mario Party have the least wack of all the verse-wide nerfs, of course.
3. Warioware Wario... Is a piece of shit. Trust me, I'm a fan of the Warioware games and I'm in agreement with other people what Warioware Wario's a weak, pathetic piece of shit and I dunno why VBW hadn't figured that out yet.
As for how individual strengths worked... Well, a Goomba is often said to be the weakest enemy, although Biddybuds and those clouds that blow at people in Nintendo 64-era games are weaker. As a result, verse-wide nerfs for the sports games don't have as much effect on Goombas as they would for any notable individual like Mario and Peach. In platformers, a Goomba harming or one-shotting Mario would be one of the most prime examples of PIS out there; however, a Goomba harming Mario in games where Mario must get stronger like the Mario and Luigi games (and consequently the Paper Mario games) is more up-to-board. I personally disagree with the VBW comparing Goombas to Chain Chomps however since Chain Chomps are regularly portrayed to be both invulnerable and the most powerful regular enemy that isn't a Thwomp and even the sports games made Chain Chomps practically omnipotent compared to the characters you play as (Like, geez! You can make a Chain Chomp eat Bowser in Mario Superstar Baseball!), but that's for another CRT that's just too unimportant right now.
Now, looking at the blog, the only thing I disagree with is the feat for Warioware: Mega Party Games, and I say that for the following reasons:
1. Warioware: Mega Party Games is noncanon and doesn't even have a story. Well, I shouldn't say "no story," but none of the games in the Multiplayer mode have anything to do with what little story Warioware: Mega Party Games got; in fact, like every other Warioware game, you get the ending by completing the game's story mode, not the main feature: the Multiplayer Mode. That's not to mention that Warioware: Mega Party Games is just the Gamecube port of Warioware: Mega Microgames except for some reason it doesn't take the story from Mega Microgames. I would know; I own the game.
2. It is more of an outlier than anything else, and I say that because while there is an eyecatch in Smooth Moves where Ashley flies to the moon albeit the dinkiest representation of the moon out there (like it's only the size of a king-sized bed!), that only worked as a speed feat and its only modestly consistent with Dribble and Spitz driving around space in Gold and Get it Together, and every other canonical feat in the Warioware feat is leagues beneath that feat. Literally the best canonical dura feat is Orbulon surviving his ship crashing into Earth, and using this (https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/meteors/ ), I had determined that re-entry for just a single person would be 8-C to 8-B (no VBW, your 11.2 km/s figure came from StackExchange, that doesn't hold any candle to an actual university source). Pretty sure a spaceship would weigh more than 60+ kg, but still.
But beyond that, I agree.
Personally... That's what I've said before: why keep the Marios as one of the same when Paper Jam literally doubled down on how they are separate beings from separate worlds?! I definitely agree with the verse split, man!
Now, the Varies tier that was attempted before... I personally understand why anyone would want that. The workings of Mario games are very finicky. Wario himself is a prime example of how finicky an individual character can be.
1. Wario Land follows up from Super Mario Land 2, where Wario had actually went up against Mario.
2. Various sports games, most noticeably the Mario Baseball games, have basically made everyone else more or less equal AND heavily nerfed to where they're just as strong as regular people if you gave them Dungeons and Dragons spells. Mario Kart and Mario Party have the least wack of all the verse-wide nerfs, of course.
3. Warioware Wario... Is a piece of shit. Trust me, I'm a fan of the Warioware games and I'm in agreement with other people what Warioware Wario's a weak, pathetic piece of shit and I dunno why VBW hadn't figured that out yet.
As for how individual strengths worked... Well, a Goomba is often said to be the weakest enemy, although Biddybuds and those clouds that blow at people in Nintendo 64-era games are weaker. As a result, verse-wide nerfs for the sports games don't have as much effect on Goombas as they would for any notable individual like Mario and Peach. In platformers, a Goomba harming or one-shotting Mario would be one of the most prime examples of PIS out there; however, a Goomba harming Mario in games where Mario must get stronger like the Mario and Luigi games (and consequently the Paper Mario games) is more up-to-board. I personally disagree with the VBW comparing Goombas to Chain Chomps however since Chain Chomps are regularly portrayed to be both invulnerable and the most powerful regular enemy that isn't a Thwomp and even the sports games made Chain Chomps practically omnipotent compared to the characters you play as (Like, geez! You can make a Chain Chomp eat Bowser in Mario Superstar Baseball!), but that's for another CRT that's just too unimportant right now.
Now, looking at the blog, the only thing I disagree with is the feat for Warioware: Mega Party Games, and I say that for the following reasons:
1. Warioware: Mega Party Games is noncanon and doesn't even have a story. Well, I shouldn't say "no story," but none of the games in the Multiplayer mode have anything to do with what little story Warioware: Mega Party Games got; in fact, like every other Warioware game, you get the ending by completing the game's story mode, not the main feature: the Multiplayer Mode. That's not to mention that Warioware: Mega Party Games is just the Gamecube port of Warioware: Mega Microgames except for some reason it doesn't take the story from Mega Microgames. I would know; I own the game.
2. It is more of an outlier than anything else, and I say that because while there is an eyecatch in Smooth Moves where Ashley flies to the moon albeit the dinkiest representation of the moon out there (like it's only the size of a king-sized bed!), that only worked as a speed feat and its only modestly consistent with Dribble and Spitz driving around space in Gold and Get it Together, and every other canonical feat in the Warioware feat is leagues beneath that feat. Literally the best canonical dura feat is Orbulon surviving his ship crashing into Earth, and using this (https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/meteors/ ), I had determined that re-entry for just a single person would be 8-C to 8-B (no VBW, your 11.2 km/s figure came from StackExchange, that doesn't hold any candle to an actual university source). Pretty sure a spaceship would weigh more than 60+ kg, but still.
But beyond that, I agree.
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Current system of only having Paper Jam Paper Mario as different from normal Mario is weird, since in PJ Paper Mario's abilities are considered not something normal cast does... but then in other games normal Mario just becomes Paper and gains these different powers and its not questioned? I know it is more of a retcon, but it is kinda weird to keep.
I'd almost take separating PJ normal Mario from normal Mario then too
Tbf, might as well start this here if we want sth to be done. The fabled quote used on Paper Mario profile says "the overall franchise having no canon to speak of" doesnt actually mean series is connected, in fact it is the opposite, right? And didnt cartoons that were composited generally get nuked? If we are technical, by using that statement, we are compositing Mario. That is a problem.
Tbf, might as well start this here if we want sth to be done. The fabled quote used on Paper Mario profile says "the overall franchise having no canon to speak of" doesnt actually mean series is connected, in fact it is the opposite, right? And didnt cartoons that were composited generally get nuked? If we are technical, by using that statement, we are compositing Mario. That is a problem.
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Yeah, that is kind of a major problem, especially when the only other time I've seen Mario do anything paper-y is, you guessed it, the Paper Mario games. Combine that with the finicky nature of spin-offs and the major verse-wide nerfs in sports and Mario Party titles and you kinda start to see cracks in the idea of compositing Mario.
Dust_Collector
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The issue with the quote on Paper Marios profile is that we kinda made it up. It's one of those things where something is said and people misinterpret to massive degrees for some reason. There is a canon, it can pretty loose at times but it is there, Miyamoto directly stated that there's only one version of Mario (Exception being Paper Mario of course) and somehow that got turned into "series has no canon at all lol" on our profiles. Using all the spin offs and stuff ain't compositing, but it does add to the headache of how inconsistent the characters stats are.
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It was also stated that nothing's set in stone besides Mario's age, that being 24-25. Everything else is kinda whatever.
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