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Yes, let's wait on that for now, there's gonna be a whole discussion to have and it's not really important right now.
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Just saying that Wario's stronger than Mario in 64 DS, but after that there aren't really any instances of Wario scaling to MarioOh also, if we're un-splitting, should we make it so Wario and DK also have the same stats as "mainline" Mario? There isn't really a tangible reason to split them any more than there is to split other Mario subseries.
Also, can you make another blog with the actual anti feats (not feats but anti feats)? Some of the stuff in the blog you made are just well, feats. This is the first anti feat in that list, for exampleOh also, if we're un-splitting, should we make it so Wario and DK also have the same stats as "mainline" Mario? There isn't really a tangible reason to split them any more than there is to split other Mario subseries.
The wording via the interview here pretty much groups the paper mario series as a whole together and being separate from m&l series and becoming a combined thing of shared events for the first time, so, if we are doing a split based on retcons, we may as well structure it that way.I think the first Paper Mario can maybe be used for normal Mario since some games imply the events of that game happened (Like Superstar Saga) but every other Paper Mario game after that should count as it's own thing.
They're getting hurt by that lmao, it's an anti-feat. My blog is just fine.Also, can you make another blog with the actual anti feats (not feats but anti feats)? Some of the stuff in the blog you made are just well, feats. This is the first anti feat in that list, for example
Thank you for helping out.Alright, I'll go back through the last few pages and see.
@Agnaa @Eficiente @Psychomaster35 @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @Elizhaa @EliminatorVenom
Didn't go through the discussion that happened before the thread moved from downgrading to splitting. Agnaa didn't give an opinion but I still would like his given that he opposes varies ratings because of toon force
Yeah I never really saw the point of these ratings, Wario especially. I want to read through the rest of the thread before giving my full thoughts, but I do agree with the one verse canon.Oh also, if we're un-splitting, should we make it so Wario and DK also have the same stats as "mainline" Mario? There isn't really a tangible reason to split them any more than there is to split other Mario subseries.
Tag them againThank you for the evaluation.
Apologies for re-opening a closed thread but I want the most possible concerned people to see this, I wanted to apologize for pushing for a profile split since, after thinking about it, I strongly disagree with it, and I wanted my opinion to be known since the profile split hasn't really proceeded much (understandably, it's an insane, unrealistic amount of work that would probably never get completed) and I want to at least try to mend my mistake instead of forever leaving the verse in an unfixable limbo. This isn't a content revision, I don't want to lead any massive sweeping revision anymore due to burnout both on the verse and, partially, the site as a whole. I am willing to take a secondary role in helping but I'm tired of debating this verse. I just want to give my opinions in the hope they help supporters come to a conclusion, so I'll be a bit more blunt than I normally would.
First off, Mario is a single canon, there's way too many references between series to ignore that. The exception is Paper Mario, which is clearly its own continuity, but still connected to mainline with Paper Jam. Nobody's putting that (maybe PM stuff aside, but that doesn't concern this) into question. As for the proposal to split among series to make things more consistent, I originally agreed with it, maybe because it was sort of a way to get what I wanted, in a roundabout way (Mario series having more accurate stats), maybe because Zark (Impress) convinced me pretty well that there wasn't any other direction to take other than a Varies rating (which I strongly disagreed and disagree with), and that this superceded my own downgrade, but since she didn't input that much, I was forced to be the one to push it forward, she told me she'd input eventually. Well, she quit the wiki due to unrelated matters I won't get into, so that input never came, this was obviously not all purposeful on her end, at the very least, not the part where she quit, but it does leave me feeling rather sour.
Anyway, as I've thought about it, I think splitting a profile to account for inconsistency is effectively the same as adding a Varies rating with no verse justification. I think it's just a way to hide anti-feats (and outliers) as just a natural part of the character rather than something that disproves higher (and lower?) ratings and completely goes against site standards. There is absolutely no reason Mario's strength should be considered to actually change between series and I regret having ever pushed for it.
What I actually think should be done is what I was originally pushing for in this thread: Mario should be considered as one canon (PM aside), with a single set of stats (powerups, temporary amps, equipment and all similar stuff excluded of course). His AP in my opinion should be in the tier 8/7 range, anything lower is nitpicking to an excessive degree, and anything higher is hiding your head in the sand and ignoring the massive amount of anti-feats I collected which are still very valid. I have no opinion on what the other statistics should be though obviously LS shouldn't be Stellar or anything given that contrasts a sub-cosmic rating.
But again, this is only my opinion. If the majority thinks a profile split is the way to go, I won't stop ya, I personally disagree but at this point I don't care that much and I think you did good work on the Mario Kart profile, and ultimately it'll still lead to more accurate profiles than the current Mario profile whose stats I strongly disagree with. Apologies for making you sit through all this rant, but I had to get this off my chest and I think it may be important for the verse's future.
@Agnaa @Eficiente @Psychomaster35 @SamanPatou @Elizhaa @EliminatorVenomOkay, but we cannot just suddenly overrule all of the staff members who conclusively voted for a split previously. We need to summon them here again to ask them first.
By all means, I think that's a good thing.I'll collect anti-feats for every damn videogame verse on this site if the tier 8/7 Mario shit goes through based on these anti-feats. Cause I can damn sure find a million anti-feats for other franchises as well that are also "heavily tied into the plot or story"
I can also heavily scrutinize most of the tier 7 feats as well.
It isn't a joke, if all those are considered limits, including them getting hurt by falls, then tier 9 would be consistentCan you guys calm down? I can understand you're upset fox, but maybe focus on collecting all the various high end feats. I do agree Tier 8/7 is massive downplay though.
And XXKing, you were banned twice for your actions throughout this platform, it be appreciated if you avoided making inflammatory jokes here.
This is true, I don't see why we can't do this for other verses to find a better idea of someone's tier. Who are the staff members who need to respond again?By all means, I think that's a good thing.
That'll just make them tier 8
Can we focus on concluding that the split should be undone? I'll make a different thread for the downgrade.
Canon split doesn't seem necessary. Though, on tiers, I am fine with the tiers that end up being the most consistent.Alright, I'll go back through the last few pages and see.
@Agnaa @Eficiente @Psychomaster35 @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @Elizhaa @EliminatorVenom
Didn't go through the discussion that happened before the thread moved from downgrading to splitting. Agnaa didn't give an opinion but I still would like his given that he opposes varies ratings because of toon force
EliminatorVenom hasn't responded yetCan somebody remind me which regular member that is currently organising the splitting project for Mario? We need to inform them about the apparent changed course in this regard.
It was Maverick_Zero_X pretty sure (Did the Mario Kart feat gathering thread).Can somebody remind me which regular member that is currently organising the splitting project for Mario? We need to inform them about the apparent changed course in this regard.
This can be deleted but I'll archive it firstMario (Mario Kart Series)
Mario is the main character and protagonist of the long-running and highly successful Mario series. He was created by Japanese video game designer Shigeru Miyamoto and also serves as the main mascot of Nintendo. Mario made his first appearance as the protagonist of the arcade game Donkey Kong...vsbattles.fandom.com
Let me give my counters, I guess:Alright, I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate real quick and say there actually is enough evidence that even if Mario and Paper Mario aren't the exact same character, they've at least been on similar enough adventures that the powers not directly related to PM being... well... Paper would be shared between them.
There's, of course, the current reasoning we use, such as Paper Mario characters appearing in Mainline Mario games (Dark Bones in Super Sluggers, Star Spirits in Mario Party 5, Goomboss in Super Mario 64 DS (Who even acknowledged that Mario had defeated him before despite this being his second appearance after Paper Mario 64 I'm pretty sure)).
There are also several times where Mainline Mario is acknowledged in Paper Mario and vice versa. Just to list a few:
Super Mario Bros. is acknowledged in Paper Mario
Paper Mario is acknowledged in Mario & Luigi
A level ripped directly from Mario 3 being acknowledged as history in Color Splash
Paper Mario 64 acknowledges Mario Golf, Mario Tennis and Mario Party
Mario Kart is acknowledged in Color Splash
And this is excluding any blatant 4th wall breaks.
An official magazine also notes that the brothers "Turned into paper" (Last paragraph on the page on the left)
Super Smash Bros. Melee's trophy description for Paper Mario also notes that the whole Paper thing is an "art style"
Also, Miyamoto him-*******-self said that it's "Always the same Mario", so that's a pretty big factor to prove it.
As for why Mario doesn't use any of his Paper powers in Paper Jam, which would solve any of the problems Paper Mario needed to solve, this is Mario. Mario is the god damn king of having certain abilities in one game and then completely forgetting they ever existed in the next.
This work better?First off, the link for PM being acknowledged in M&L is broken.