Possible FTL Pokemon

[Jelome1989]

What i didnt start .

Yeah my bad, didn't read Kukui's post and didn't realize you're actualy quoting his post

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Actually flash is 100 .

I do not exactly think it is good , but I'm against cherry picking .

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait, people are arguing stat percentages? Even I didn't do that...

Legit, I only said Pokemon can react to the move, and that piece of text I posted above supports that ("<Pokémon> avoided the move in time with your shout!").

 

[LordAizenSama]

I might be thinking of older gens. Since im most familiar with gen 3 iirc it was like, 80 or 90% but you get the point im making

EDIT: It is 70%

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

70%, Gen III is the best, and if that argument is being made, I agree with Aizen.

 

[LordAizenSama]

That 70% accuracy was another reason why I refused to teach anyone that useless move and instead stumble around in rock tunnel fighting zubats for hours.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

70 in gen 1 , 100 now .


Just calculate Anime or manga flash .

 

[Jelome1989]

I'm sorry if this is derailing, but why are all Pokemon classified as Transonic then when it's the same reasoning as this one? Or is it not?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Anime and Manga Flash have multiple variations. And we also got to see if anyone actually reacts to it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I stopped watching all the showings of Flash, but all of the Umbreon and Ampharos ones are instant and are just a radiance of light.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So none were the offensive ones?

 

[Kepekley23]

Nobody reacts to Flash in the anime, just saying. The closest is Clemont's Magnemite who gets hit by the attack and flinches, and that doesn't scale to its reactions.

May not be the case in the manga, however.

 

[Amexim]

Transonic is far easier to swallow than FTL, but I do agree that it's inconsistent in our questioning, so I personally would put all mons at at least Superhuman in speed. Not to mention it wouldn't really be much of an outlier based on other moves they dodge in the anime/manga and could dodge in the video games.

As for Flash and evasion scaling in general, I think it's based on faulty logic to go with it just from the games. The anime is something different, since most mons displayed are like that by training. Cal, the Pokémon Refresh dodge mechanic doesn't work for scaling on mons that are owned by trainers. We can't scale from trained Pokémon to wild mons, otherwise, Pikachu would be for example FTL from fighting Legendaries like Latios, who should be stronger than it's wild counterpart, and wouldn't seem to absurd to scale power gem dodging from (if we just scaled this to legends and pseudo-legends). If your Caterpie was owned by a trainer— and it dodged flash or Power Gem, I could accept that as a high end for any trained Mon, but nothing for a wild Mon, if at all. And i'm only saying that because Ash's Pikachu is impossibly strong, and assuming that outlandish shit like that is possible if you train the mon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I still settle where they are now.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So I guess this thread ain't flying?

 

[Kepekley23]

So, i found a potential reaction feat. Galvantula uses Flash on Watchog and the latter puts its hands up in defense. Not sure if it counts, though.

There is more stuff like this in Adventures, so if not, we can probably find a legitimate reaction if we dig deep enough.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

In Agreement: 7 (Cal, J-Man, Kukui, Overlord, Lephyr, Weekly and Kaltias)
In DIsagreement: 14 (Myself, Matt, Assault, Gemmy, Dark, Zex, Amex, Myriad, Kep, Rocker, Jelome, Blanked, LAS and FTW)

Unknow: 5 (Ever, Azzy, Ant, SD and Imagi)

This is the current situation right now. At this point I dunno.

 

[Amexim]

I mean, I can except a Caterpie being Transonic, but I personally need a lot of prefixes on the pages— because we don't have enough definitive evidence or strong scaling to go off of. But, again, that rating is based on faulty reasoning.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In Agreement: 7 (Cal, J-Man, Kukui, Overlord, Lephyr, Weekly and Kaltias)
In DIsagreement: 14 (Myself, Matt, Assault, Gemmy, Dark, Zex, Amex, Myriad, Kep, Rocker, Jelome, Blanked, LAS and FTW)

Unknow: 5 (Ever, Azzy, Ant, SD and Imagi)

This is the current situation right now. At this point I dunno.

@Dragon

To clarify, my position is:

• using the game itself doesn't work very well for scaling things like this.

• if there are multiple instances of similar feats occurring in the anime, then it's likely usable, but would need those scenes to be calced and reactions to be shown.

 

[Amexim]

I don't think that should count— it's too ambiguous to base scaling off of. That Watchog could have easily been hit with the move, the way I see it. Do you have further scans surround the exchange?

 

[Kepekley23]

So, i found a potential reaction feat. Galvantula uses Flash on Watchog and the latter puts its hands up in defense. Not sure if it counts, though.

There is more stuff like this in Adventures, so if not, we can probably find a legitimate reaction if we dig deep enough.

Since this thread travels at the speed of thought, i'm speedbumping this.

 

[AguilaR101]

Problem with that scan is the fact we never get a shot of the watchog before the attack reaches him, so those panels by themselves look like the result of NOT reacting to it in time and getting blinded by it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Y'know, I'm pretty sure I can just assume a larger distance, say 3 meters, and I don't get FTL.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Y'know, I'm pretty sure I can just assume a larger distance, say 3 meters, and I don't get FTL.

Isn't this just trying to mask the outlier by using the lowest possible end of a feat?

 

[Amexim]

I do agree with the scaling of Legendaries to UB's though. But one thing at a time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To clarify, my position is:

• using the game itself doesn't work very well for scaling things like this.

• if there are multiple instances of similar feats occurring in the anime, then it's likely usable, but would need those scenes to be calced and reactions to be shown.

My opinion.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

As it has already been stated that's quite ambiguous. What's the previous panel like? Was the Watchog already bracing for an attack? Did it manage to successfully react to it or was it only unsuccessfully attempting to react? Any number of actions could have been taken after the Watchog had been blinded. I don't think that a failure should count unless it's very specifically displayed to have been a close call.

 

[Kepekley23]

I get it.

I'm going to dig deeper, then.

 

[Amexim]

Even then, what exactly are we looking for to support our reasoning for them even reacting to Flash. Cause, for me, hiding behind a rock before they use Flash wouldn't do it. Same for if they pulled a Kid Goku vs Tien's Solar Flare. My issue with that scene is the same with this— at any point in time before the move was used, the character could have taken measures to avoid it. Reacting to Flash requires the target being sufficiently off guard or put in a circumstance where they had to react to it mid-casting. Otherwise, people, mostly me, would immediately assume Aimdodging, unless there was a statement or a specific circumstance that shuts down that argument.

Point is, make sure it looks definitive before you bring it up. We can't have it be based on flimsy reasoning and mental gymnastics.

 

[Amexim]

I'm gonna try and dive into the Pokédex to see if there are any speed feats from lower level Pokémon, so we could thesibly scale from lore instead of dodging in game. Because if it's something like Dodrio, most fully evolved and stage 2 mons might be able to scale to it with a "possibly".

 

[Jelome1989]

I'm gonna try and dive into the Pokédex to see if there are any speed feats from lower level Pokémon, so we could thesibly scale from lore instead of dodging in game. Because if it's something like Dodrio, most fully evolved and stage 2 mons might be able to scale to it with a "possibly".

I don't think you can find anything sadly. Raikou is probably the fastest you can find but it's just at MHS+

 

[Amexim]

I mean, I was looking for a slower, weaker Mon. At the very least, we get a definite MHS+ rating for Legends... Like, I think Cal might have gotten Clefa as the only baby with speed ratings, and that feat is shoddy as ****.

I say, if we want to be faithful to the lore and not the stat scaling, then Superhuman ratings and any mon that can use Mach Punch, Quick Attack, or any Priority 1 move can get Subsonic to Transonic and moves like Extreme speed can get Supersonic by being faster than Mach Punch. Perhaps scale in reactions to those who don't have it, but that's it...? Maybe not even scale.

 

[Jelome1989]

Yeah, I mean if Raikou, a legendary, is already the fastest but only at MHS+ then you won't find anything relevant for the weaker mons.

About the moves with priority that's another topic I guess. (Ex. Genesect with extremespeed can keep up with Mega Mewtwo Y but the other Genesect without extremespeed can't, with the former two moving at super speeds relative to the latter.)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Dragon

I actually do not agree.

 

[Amexim]

So, then, if Cleffa's high Hypersonic feat is shaky, then all we have is scaling off of mons that can learn quick attack, Mach Punch, or offensive priority moves like that, scaling their movement/combat speed to all mons that can use it, and give all mons without these moves a "possibly" rating on the reactions, unless they're legendaries, meaning they scale from raikou or something.

Then, if we're doing Pokémon vs Pokémon battles, a link to the stats from Bulbapedia or copy paste it here, just so that we know what their speed and power should stack up against each other. I know using the stats isn't a perfect scaling tool for ours, and obvious inconsistencies should still be overwritten, like any normal Mon having a stat stronger than Arceus. But it's faithful to the games and lore, rather than this strange scaling.

 

[Amexim]

If anyone agrees or disagrees with that, say something. Or perhaps try to improve on it?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean we already got a speed feat that they are scaled to already.

 

[Amexim]

One that wasn't the Cleffa?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean, all we have to do is make baby Pokemon Transonic like they were originally and the current Pokemon speed ratings we have now can just stay the same. This calc was basically an attempt to upgrade from the current ratings.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm definitely fine with nothing happening. Saves me work.