- 40,473
- 12,955
Well, yeah...
...but it's Pikachu...
...but it's Pikachu...
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Possible FTL Pokemon
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
-
- Tags
- pokémon
- Status
- 312
- 43
Does that imply that Latios can dodge his own move?
- 12,239
- 1,112
Pikachu dodged luster purge .
Maybe Salamanca .
Nothing other than that .
Maybe Salamanca .
Nothing other than that .
- 1,673
- 289
luster purge in the anime is more like a beam of energy rather than light though, assuming we're talking about the tobias fight.
- 40,473
- 12,955
Aguila is right. It definitely has light properties in the games, and maybe in the manga, but in the anime, it's a purple beam of all things.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Energy balls in the mamga .
- 26,336
- 3,128
a burst of light in all the games, as the description sais
- 312
- 43
The Darkrai fight? Just a massive outlier through and through for the sake of plot.
- 12,239
- 1,112
That doesn't change luster purge not acting like light in that .
- 16,971
- 4,868
But isn't that just one depicition though? And is Luster Purge used any other time in the anime or nah?
- 33,408
- 8,430
- Thread starter
- #332
Latios uses Luster Purge in the Heroes movie.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Manga has it dbz energy style .
- 16,971
- 4,868
Could we see scans of it to make it easier please?
- 33,408
- 8,430
- Thread starter
- #335
See...that requires effort. ovoProfessorKukui4Life said:
- 16,971
- 4,868
Indeed xD
Oh yeah I forgot to mention since someone mentioned Elgeym above. IIRC, Elgeym have normal MFTL reactions based off of something in the BW anime but i'd have to find it again to be totally sure.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention since someone mentioned Elgeym above. IIRC, Elgeym have normal MFTL reactions based off of something in the BW anime but i'd have to find it again to be totally sure.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Bulbapedia though , ya realiuze it lists every instance of the move used across all media .
- 2,938
- 365
@PaChi2
I don't think we should start saying "lolpowerlevels" isn't an actual argument. Because, if we took PaChi's argument to it's logical extreme, everything and it's mother would be the same speed. Which doesn't make sense. It would be as stupid as Cradily outspending anything. I could get behind final stages being able to possibly (emphasis on possibly) tag Legends. But the only reason lower stages would be able to **** with higher stages and Legends is from "levels". And we can't take those into account, at all, because that's a huge variable for our scaling.
A trained anything could body any level 1 legendary(excluding 2-C) mon. But that legendary Mon isn't sub-rel anymore, is it, because it's far weaker than it should be. By your own admission, AP and Speed is based in Level, not stage. So, then, all of this is pointless, because Metronome Togepi at level 100 can be rated as 6-C and Sub-Rel if it trained. Which, then, makes it so that we don't know what stats any Pokémon should have because it varies entirely from one end to another.
I feel that PaChi's claims about speed and AP being dictated by level are true. However, I also feel that the purpose of us listing these Pokémon are as they are with very minimal trainer input. Taking levels into account and making it so that the intro to Darkrai— Where Piplup can fight against Empoleon applies to all mons in the wild and on average is ridiculous. The only way this would be possible is through levels, and we can take examples from all trainer owned Pokémon and mons like Pikachu that trained Pokémon that have increased in level and became capable of contending with Legends— take them as individuals who have gone beyond the norm and are special cases.
TL
R; The Levels argument should only apply to Trained Mons, otherwise we get erroneous and inflated scaling that is meaningless, vague, and ignores common sense (that is based on how the series presents Pokémon in stages in comparison to each other.)
I don't think we should start saying "lolpowerlevels" isn't an actual argument. Because, if we took PaChi's argument to it's logical extreme, everything and it's mother would be the same speed. Which doesn't make sense. It would be as stupid as Cradily outspending anything. I could get behind final stages being able to possibly (emphasis on possibly) tag Legends. But the only reason lower stages would be able to **** with higher stages and Legends is from "levels". And we can't take those into account, at all, because that's a huge variable for our scaling.
A trained anything could body any level 1 legendary(excluding 2-C) mon. But that legendary Mon isn't sub-rel anymore, is it, because it's far weaker than it should be. By your own admission, AP and Speed is based in Level, not stage. So, then, all of this is pointless, because Metronome Togepi at level 100 can be rated as 6-C and Sub-Rel if it trained. Which, then, makes it so that we don't know what stats any Pokémon should have because it varies entirely from one end to another.
I feel that PaChi's claims about speed and AP being dictated by level are true. However, I also feel that the purpose of us listing these Pokémon are as they are with very minimal trainer input. Taking levels into account and making it so that the intro to Darkrai— Where Piplup can fight against Empoleon applies to all mons in the wild and on average is ridiculous. The only way this would be possible is through levels, and we can take examples from all trainer owned Pokémon and mons like Pikachu that trained Pokémon that have increased in level and became capable of contending with Legends— take them as individuals who have gone beyond the norm and are special cases.
TL
R; The Levels argument should only apply to Trained Mons, otherwise we get erroneous and inflated scaling that is meaningless, vague, and ignores common sense (that is based on how the series presents Pokémon in stages in comparison to each other.)
- 20,729
- 3,679
Still the series protrayes everyone, both trained and wild, capable of tagging everyone, which makes any distinction made by us arbitrary, such as differentiating low stages and final stages' speed.
Note that Im mostly referring to speed because the series does make a huge distinction between the strength/AP of final stages and the babies, while that's not the case for speed.
Note that Im mostly referring to speed because the series does make a huge distinction between the strength/AP of final stages and the babies, while that's not the case for speed.
- 2,938
- 365
And makes everything here pointless, renders the series itself contradictory to itself, and makes all mons equal in strength as well as speed by levels, as the distinction between whether or not speed and AP scale is equally contradicted and the "huge distinction" in AP is just as prevalent as the Speed difference when you take levels into account. See Pikachu vs Latios, Darkrai vs Palkia and Dialga, every battle the protagonists of the games do, the intro to Darkrai's movie, battles between Pokémon of separate stages. The list of inconsistencies in AP and Speed go on and on with "Levels". The Series portrays everything capable of possibly harming everything at random intervals and variations, with our only defense against it being an argument from incredulity (i.e. Axew doing anything to Beartic in BW is absolutely absurd! It can't be true,).
But we all smell the BS. We all know that this doesn't make sense. This is where we start to get outliers from— when feats contradict everything we understand from the series— not just because they seem absurd on their own merits (I.e. Happiny being as strong as it is, despite its size sounds ridiculous irl and I refuse to believe it's wall level— as a shitty example), but because the series itself has established concepts that these things contradict that can only be explained with levels or with the outlier excuse.
It's strange coming from me— because if you knew me irl, you'd know that I say that there is no such thing as overthinking. So I will stand by that and state that, the broader truth is that we can't know anything and that all conclusions we come to (be it about reality or this topic specifically) are based in assumptions. We assume that we can comprehend the world around us— assume that our definitions for things are viable, assume that our senses are reliable when there is no good reason for any of these claims to be true, AT ALL, and we throw away the possibility that we are right. I might be getting too meta, but, to be clear, you analyzing this deep is both getting us to the root of th true answer— and getting us both confused and nowhere. Because, like in real life, we can't know anything without assuming something and being irrational at some point.
TLR; Your overanalyzing is getting us to the truth, but said truth is the same as not knowing. So do what I do when I walk around my house, and assume the basics of what we go by apply to a certain extent. That being "lolpowerlevels"
But we all smell the BS. We all know that this doesn't make sense. This is where we start to get outliers from— when feats contradict everything we understand from the series— not just because they seem absurd on their own merits (I.e. Happiny being as strong as it is, despite its size sounds ridiculous irl and I refuse to believe it's wall level— as a shitty example), but because the series itself has established concepts that these things contradict that can only be explained with levels or with the outlier excuse.
It's strange coming from me— because if you knew me irl, you'd know that I say that there is no such thing as overthinking. So I will stand by that and state that, the broader truth is that we can't know anything and that all conclusions we come to (be it about reality or this topic specifically) are based in assumptions. We assume that we can comprehend the world around us— assume that our definitions for things are viable, assume that our senses are reliable when there is no good reason for any of these claims to be true, AT ALL, and we throw away the possibility that we are right. I might be getting too meta, but, to be clear, you analyzing this deep is both getting us to the root of th true answer— and getting us both confused and nowhere. Because, like in real life, we can't know anything without assuming something and being irrational at some point.
TL
R; Your overanalyzing is getting us to the truth, but said truth is the same as not knowing. So do what I do when I walk around my house, and assume the basics of what we go by apply to a certain extent. That being "lolpowerlevels"
- 2,938
- 365
Secondly, Pokémon evolve at certain levels. If a Pikachu can be on the same level as a legendary, and a Piplup can be the same level as an Empoleon, logic would dictate that, based on Pokémon evolving when they reach a certain level and level translating to AP and Speed Levels and the assumption that you can't be level 2 and be an infernape, that evolve forms of Pokémon are stronger and faster than their unevolved forms by necessity, and that there is a point where they cannot be weak enough to be on the same level as lower level forms. The exceptions would be Legends, who might be able to be at a lower level than basics, since they don't evolve. Same goes for unevolved mons too.
So yeah. There's a baseline of strength for all mons, and to deny and scrutinize that, while rational, would also get you less answers than you need, and betray what we know and our common sense (even if sometimes common sense is wrong).
In this case, since common sense is based in a rational understanding of the series and said understanding is also confirmed to be the case in the story, I would say that it wouldn't hurt to assume that what we are doing is ok. Ok?!
So yeah. There's a baseline of strength for all mons, and to deny and scrutinize that, while rational, would also get you less answers than you need, and betray what we know and our common sense (even if sometimes common sense is wrong).
In this case, since common sense is based in a rational understanding of the series and said understanding is also confirmed to be the case in the story, I would say that it wouldn't hurt to assume that what we are doing is ok. Ok?!
- 26,336
- 3,128
but levels are game mechanincs and also the power of the pokemons derives directly from arceus, higher stages can acess more of his power, and become as result stronger and faster
- 2,938
- 365
It was discussed in the other Pokémon thread. To quote Bulbapedia
"The concept of levels of Pokémon is not as detailed, nor as frequently mentioned, in the anime. Unlike the games, the term appears to be applied more loosely, with higher levels correlating with increased strength of the Pokémon and its moves. This can be seen in several instances throughout the anime:
The first time levels were referred to was briefly by Meowth during the second episode when he said Ash's Pikachu was "powerful beyond its evolutionary level." Misty mentions levels in Bulbasaur's Mysterious Garden where she says "That Rhyhorn must be at a high level!" referring to a Hiker's Rhyhorn's formidable strength as it uses Take Down on Ash's Bulbasaur, severely injuring it. Gary mentions taking the opponent's level into account before beginning a battle in the Japanese version of Showdown at the Po-ké Corral. In Enter The Dragonite, when Ash chose Bulbasaur to battle Drake's Electabuzz, Tracey reminded Ash that level had to be taken into account as well as type despite Grass Pokemon being strong against Electric types. After Bulbasaur was defeated, Drake comments that Ash's Charizard is on a higher level than he thought, as it was able to withstand a series of Electric attacks from Electabuzz. In Roll On, Pokémon!, Ash's Pokédex mentions that the length a Donphan's tusks indicates its level, allowing Brock to deduce that the short-tusked Donphan they encountered was a young and low-level one. Brock mentions in Doin' What Comes Natu-rally! that moves become more powerful as a Pokémon's level is raised; and Ash adds that the best way to raise levels is by battling. In Queen of the Serpentine!, Brock comments how Lucy's Milotic is at a high level after it defeated Ash's Donphan with a single hit. In Fighting Ire with Fire!, Brock mentions Barry's Empoleon has leveled up a ton since last seeing it, referring to how its battle against a Mothim went. In Dealing with a Fierce Double Ditto Drama!, when teaching Narissa, Brock says "Now let's level you up. And the only way to do that is to get experience from battling." There are few instances in the anime where the concept of levels more closely resembles that of the games. In The School of Hard Knocks, one of the students at Pokémon Tech was able to quote the levels at which Pidgey and the rest of its family evolve and learn certain moves. Furthermore, another student stated that Pikachu should be at least level 25. Another time was during a quiz in Will the Real Oak Please Stand Up?, when Nurse Joy asks Professor Oak and James (disguised as Professor Oak) what move Slowbro learns at level 46. When James fails to know the answer, he says that he has Amnesia. For his luck, however, Amnesia was the correct answer.
Levels are also mentioned in the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon special episodes Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Team Go-Getters Out of the Gate! and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time & Darkness, but are not explained."
"The concept of levels of Pokémon is not as detailed, nor as frequently mentioned, in the anime. Unlike the games, the term appears to be applied more loosely, with higher levels correlating with increased strength of the Pokémon and its moves. This can be seen in several instances throughout the anime:
The first time levels were referred to was briefly by Meowth during the second episode when he said Ash's Pikachu was "powerful beyond its evolutionary level." Misty mentions levels in Bulbasaur's Mysterious Garden where she says "That Rhyhorn must be at a high level!" referring to a Hiker's Rhyhorn's formidable strength as it uses Take Down on Ash's Bulbasaur, severely injuring it. Gary mentions taking the opponent's level into account before beginning a battle in the Japanese version of Showdown at the Po-ké Corral. In Enter The Dragonite, when Ash chose Bulbasaur to battle Drake's Electabuzz, Tracey reminded Ash that level had to be taken into account as well as type despite Grass Pokemon being strong against Electric types. After Bulbasaur was defeated, Drake comments that Ash's Charizard is on a higher level than he thought, as it was able to withstand a series of Electric attacks from Electabuzz. In Roll On, Pokémon!, Ash's Pokédex mentions that the length a Donphan's tusks indicates its level, allowing Brock to deduce that the short-tusked Donphan they encountered was a young and low-level one. Brock mentions in Doin' What Comes Natu-rally! that moves become more powerful as a Pokémon's level is raised; and Ash adds that the best way to raise levels is by battling. In Queen of the Serpentine!, Brock comments how Lucy's Milotic is at a high level after it defeated Ash's Donphan with a single hit. In Fighting Ire with Fire!, Brock mentions Barry's Empoleon has leveled up a ton since last seeing it, referring to how its battle against a Mothim went. In Dealing with a Fierce Double Ditto Drama!, when teaching Narissa, Brock says "Now let's level you up. And the only way to do that is to get experience from battling." There are few instances in the anime where the concept of levels more closely resembles that of the games. In The School of Hard Knocks, one of the students at Pokémon Tech was able to quote the levels at which Pidgey and the rest of its family evolve and learn certain moves. Furthermore, another student stated that Pikachu should be at least level 25. Another time was during a quiz in Will the Real Oak Please Stand Up?, when Nurse Joy asks Professor Oak and James (disguised as Professor Oak) what move Slowbro learns at level 46. When James fails to know the answer, he says that he has Amnesia. For his luck, however, Amnesia was the correct answer.
Levels are also mentioned in the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon special episodes Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Team Go-Getters Out of the Gate! and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time & Darkness, but are not explained."
- 33,408
- 8,430
- Thread starter
- #349
Why are we discussing this? What does levels have anything to do with speed. Now we are derailing.
- 4,187
- 1,484
I think we can close the thread, conventional pokémon are not FTL, and for legendaries it's only a matter of time.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked