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Possible FTL Pokemon

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@matt proof it isn't ? and no, just because they are humans, it doesn't mean they can't do superhuman feats, MFTL jojo characters are humans too
 
I've said this a few times, but dodging the move wasn't calced. Reacting to it, such as being able to close your eyes for it, was what was calced.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
You can't possibly think this is legit.
Click to expand...
Ash ranges from having problems to see a first pokemon stage movements to react and know when a leggendary Pokémon will fire an attack.
 
Overlord775 said:
@matt proof it isn't ? and no, just because they are humans, it doesn't mean they can't do superhuman feats, MFTL jojo characters are humans too
Click to expand...
Ever heard of common sense?

The Jojo human characters are superhuman Stand / Hamon users. Ash is a normal kid.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Ash is a normal kid.
Click to expand...
Who is inconsistently portrayed even recently in Sun and Moon to hold things extremely heavy and has a lot 9-B feats, which made him to be considered more power than Judo Masters by the viewers.
 
It's definitely the dodging that is being calced I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Furthermore, proactively closing your eyes when you see someone prepping to use a move or the initial movements for said move, or perhaps hear your trainer screaming to you to close your eyes isn't in any way light speed. Your argument seems to imply that Flash occurs instantly with no delay whatsoever after a pokemon is told to begin casting a move as well as time for the cast itself.
 
Yet with that logic, Flash would never land. Also, Pokémon in the wild don't exclaim their attacks, and it still applies there.
 
The real cal howard said:
Yet with that logic, Flash would never land. Also, Pokémon in the wild don't exclaim their attacks, and it still applies there.
Click to expand...
Could be an outlier. Just playing Devil's Advocate.
 
Flash would land if you aren't immediately prepared to react to it which requires several different grades of prior knowledge of the defender depending on the situation. Firstly you wouldn't know to react to a move that you've never seem before. Secondly, you wouldn't necessarily know to react to a different type of Pokemon using Flash that you've never seen before. Thirdly, you wouldn't be capable of reacting to Flash if you're not paying attention because any number of reasons that have just occured: You've just been hit by something and you're too busy standing up when you get Flashed; you've been hit by something that has just confused you (Confuse ray, swagger) and you're incapable of properly reacting, you're in the middle of utilizing your own move or action and you are incapable of reacting, you're on fire, you're encased in ice, you're vomiting your own organs because you've been poisoned.

I can further list a massive wall of text regarding other plausible situations. The trainers are simply one of them.
 
Easy solution;

  • Go to bulbapedia
  • Search for Flash
  • Look up instances of Flash in the anime
  • If it functions like light, calc it
  • Result automatically applies to the level of Pokemon involved in the feat, giving an easy place to start scaling
 
Chinchou, Meditite, Bronzor, Magnemite, and Swirlix, all "Weaker" pokemon, have used it in the anime.
 
Well so far both Umbreon uses of Flash are instantaneous.

Edit: Ampharos' showings are also instant.
 
I'm not gonna argue much else on this one.

Though accepting this upgrade will make everyone and their mothers FTL. Trainers and worms included. Choosing who this upgrades is just cherry picking.

I vote for this being an outlier.
 
I disagree there are several degrees of output before their Flash moves reach optimum output giving someone more than enough leeway to dodge, I've checked Umbreon, chinchou, Solrock and Dragonair and it's the same thing.
 
With how consistently this is done, i find this very hard to believe this is an outlier, and these are just instances of Flash being used, this isnt even taking the other lightspeed attacks into account
 
Its either:

a) This scales to everyone.

b) this scales to none.

The Light feats can be done by babies and final stages, excluding the babies is just wrong. Also, this is not dragon ball, becoming stronger doesnt mean you become faster, final stages dont need to be faster than babies (machamp faster than doduo? CRADILY faster than anything?).
 
If I'm permitted the ability to give my two cents on the situation, I would like to say that I understand why we're adhering to scaling for scalings sake, and how we're determining what is and isn't an outlier by ridged criteria. But it seems like us following said criterion and rules aren't getting us anywhere respectable-- or, if we don't care how the cite looks, which, I can respect-- rational. I can understand the counter argument to the idea that Caterpie as an FTL being is ridiculous-- "That's not an argument, just an attack on the idea from a subjective basis," "The scaling is valid and there's no real reason why he can't be, from the perspective of this being fiction and no other feats are present for mons." Things like this.

I will also say that I can 100% understand how difficult this is for everyone involved, the math, the rationale, the understanding, all of this.

But, imo, this seems like an overuse of rationalizing game mechanics. I understand that, the truth is the truth, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, because how it sounds isn't relevant to how it is. However, I'm very confused on what justification you have in saying that it's perfectly acceptable for any mons to be FTL through scaling using mechanics alone. I feel like there has to be more lore justification for for the positionings of characters.
 
What makes anyone assume that FTL Caterpie is an acceptable idea when you look at the verse in its context, unexamined by vs battle and power scaling enthusiasts. I think we should just take a break from the FTL idea, and view it as a massive outlier. The logic for flash in it of itself doesn't make any sense to physically dodge without aimdodging-- what, do u see it before the light hits your eyes? Other moves like Power Gem might be legitimate if it's an actual projectile blast moving at the speed of light or so. However, the issue lies in who can dodge these attacks. I agree with PaChi2, this either scales to everyone or no one. My problem is, any pokémon can dodge any move, so long as they have access to double team/minimize naturally or have assistance from trainers. The concept of pokémon dodging moves is based in game mechanics, which is faulty, not just because it's game mechanics, but because the same mechanic makes it so that the verse presents itself in a way that implies all mons have equal speed if we interpret the verse this way.

Which makes no sense... Normally, I would advocate for the dodging of things in RPG's, but one has to use discretion when doing this, otherwise there is a mess of scaling that conflicts with lore and presentation. This shit is hard, and impossible to properly assess, because a lot of it can be subjective, but I will say that it doesn't get us anywhere if our method of reaching a proper conclusion is based in something everyone believes is absurd, and us only excepted because "lolLogic& Scaling?"
 
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