Pokémon Trainer Revisions

[Foggysniper]

I don't disagree with the downgrade but I thought the reason that Beedrill was scaled to Charizard, Gyarados, etc. was because he could mega evolve. Not that he was a final evolution.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

cmon guys, thats powerscaling


thats why magickarp should be tier 6 too

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I don't disagree with the downgrade but I thought the reason that Beedrill was scaled to Charizard, Gyarados, etc. was because he could mega evolve. Not that he was a final evolution.

I think that this rule should be discussed.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

how does mega evolving scale you to other megaevolvers?

 

[Foggysniper]

how does mega evolving scale you to other megaevolvers?

Well, it is stated multiple times in the Pokedex that mega evolving is a painful process, and since that energy comes from the same source it was assumed that they'd be around the same level of power. Though it's only really inconsistent with Beedrill, as the rest of the Pokemon that can Mega Evolve are in the same league anyways.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well, it is stated multiple times in the Pokedex that mega evolving is a painful process, and since that energy comes from the same source it was assumed that they'd be around the same level of power. Though it's only really inconsistent with Beedrill, as the rest of the Pokemon that can Mega Evolve are in the same league anyways.

so pain tolerence equals pain? and the power of mega evolutions depends on the power pf the user

 

[Amexim]

I just want to clarify that Giovanni's Beedrill was only 6-C from training and that ANY pokémon can become as strong as any other (barring Arceus, and other obvious exceptions).

Ultra Necrozma might not be one of those exceptions? The trainer from US & UM might have Solar System Level mons...?

 

[Amexim]

As for the Beedrill scaling to other Mega Evolution mons, that's debatable (though, for me it's only because I don't have a problem with Beedrill, it's Butterfree bias that makes it debatable).

In actuality, there's not really a lot to suggest that Beedrill actually scales to other Mega Evolution mons in the wild. He's one of those obvious exceptions.

 

[Foggysniper]

@Ricsi

The power of Mega Evolution came from the Ultimate Weapon but the power can only be unlocked through the bond with the trainer, so the power doesn't come from the user.

Anyways, I'm probably going to make a content revision thread if it hasn't been made already since it sounds like @Aiden wanted to discuss it. We are kinda derailing the original post.

 

[Landon_Avery]

I just want to clarify that Giovanni's Beedrill was only 6-C from training and that ANY pokémon can become as strong as any other (barring Arceus, and other obvious exceptions).

If that's the case then why the downgrade?

 

[Amexim]

Because this is wild Butterfree. Not trained Butterfree.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Ryukama makes good points.

 

[Heilergott]

Considering that there are Trainers that can use Pokemon Moves, I'd say that there is not much difference between PokeMon and Trainer, besides, you know, the looks and who is holding the ball.

I'd say "humans" are merely the most common pokemon. Propably from Type Psycho, looking at Intelligence and Psychokinesis.

 

[Kepekley23]

I also agree with Ryukama and Antvasima.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

so pain tolerence equals pain? and the power of mega evolutions depends on the power pf the user

This^ While I agree with scaling Megas to each other, Pokemon capable of mega evolving shouldn't scale to each other

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I agree with Aiden on that, I always found scaling like that to be ungrounded.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi
The power of Mega Evolution came from the Ultimate Weapon but the power can only be unlocked through the bond with the trainer, so the power doesn't come from the user.

that makes it worse, as mega evolutions dpend on power of friendship and cant be used by wild pokemons. and is there any proof that the ultimate weapons gives equal amount of power

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I also agree with Aiden here.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, we should downgrade Mawile, which i think is mid level at best.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Well. Why would the weapon not? Why would the weapon arbitrarily not give comparable power boosts? Or the nature energy. Plus mega bee on par kinda with mega mega camerupt and is giovannis ace.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats not entirely true, the power from mega evolution is there within pokemon it just can't be unleashed through normal means. Well, not counting self-mega evolving mon of course like Rayquaza or Diancie.

As far as I know, the power isn't coming from the trainer but the ability to wield it is.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Since when has Giovanni had a Mega Beedrill or Mega Camerupt? Only Mega I know he has canonically is Mewtwo.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Mawile has always been found by the second gym. Middle stage at best seems fine. Carbink would be downgraded, sableye feed on carbink and sable also is below gabite.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm okay with that, though Mawile (and Sableye, but it has no profile) is the only one it'll most likely affect. Well, Kangaskhan, Absol, Heracross, Aerodactyl, and Pinsir, but they're portrayed on the level of fully evolved Pokémon.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Dragon, Giovanni has mega beedrill in the manga.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well. Why would the weapon not? Why would the weapon arbitrarily not give comparable power boosts? Or the nature energy. Plus mega bee on par kinda with mega mega camerupt and is giovannis ace.

why would it? as far as burden of prrof goes, your claiming something with no eviddence. pokemons differ in power and they mega tend to be weaker or stronger in games. the weapon could give just enough for it to take the pain

and that could easly be because its the only one he is close enough with to mega evolve and as said above trainers competence changes the amount of power a pokemon can have

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Dragon, Giovanni has mega beedrill in the manga.

He does??? Wow...I thought he'd use Mega Kangaskhan tbh...

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Because all megas got potratedvas a "holy shit , stomps norm pokemon" tier of power. And if beedrill, a trash pokemon can mega and be on par and abive aggron, well yeah.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lopunny goes from only-good-as-the-hot-bunny tier to casually-kick-your-ass tier ovo

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Because all megas got potratedvas a "holy shit , stomps norm pokemon" tier of power. And if beedrill, a trash pokemon can mega and be on par and abive aggron, well yeah.

that doesent really respond to my question, especialy with it being tied to the trainers relationship to the pokemon

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Nah, he had been using beedtil in the manga since the first arc. When he came back in the omega ruby arc he could mega it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The strong bond needed to Mega Evolve might've been lessened with the Mega Pokémon Pokedex entries. Given how many of them have pain ranging from uncomfortable to outright painful, can make them go insane, can cause them to literally melt, or they just don't like it. The bond is likely to keep them from killing you (and everything else) for making them go through that.

 

[Amexim]

Either way, it's irrelevant if the mon can mega evolve. It's base form should stay the same IN THE WILD VARIATIONS.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Given how many of them have pain ranging from uncomfortable to outright painful, can make them go insane, can cause them to literally melt, or they just don't like it

but that still means that side effects of megaevolution changes from pokemon to pokemon

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I'm okay with that, though Mawile (and Sableye, but it has no profile) is the only one it'll most likely affect. Well, Kangaskhan, Absol, Heracross, Aerodactyl, and Pinsir, but they're portrayed on the level of fully evolved Pokémon.

No, no really. Unlike say, Gyarados, they doesn't anything relevant to hold them up. Heck, even Heracross when first introduced was and relative early game pokemon (You can take around your fight with Bugsy, who has a Scyther). Aerodactyl can be debated, since the other fossil pokemon in Gen 1 evolve at.. lvl 40? Holy sh*t.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Both, Heracross and Pinsir, are rivals with Vikavolt, a Pokémon that does scale. Absol is heavily revered and hyped up in-verse. Kangaskhan, when enraged, is heavily seen as something to fear as well.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Heracross has actual feats but ok. Scythe late game actually, but he does evolve, high end middle stage maybe?


Pinsur and khan late also withing the games , with the one being ysed as a boss by giovanni. Aerodactyl was portrayed on par (well not actually, but ya get me) with charuzard .

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Outside of Kalos, Absol is pretty much a late game mon.

Gen lll - By the 6 gym area.

Gen lV- Mt Coronet on your way to deal with Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.

Gen V- Route 13 and Giant Chasm. Both are connected to Kyurem.

Gen Vl- During that ungodly gap between the 1st and 2nd gym.

Gen Vll- Mt. Lanakila/Victory Road.

 

[Amexim]

Bump

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Scyther is not late game, and yes, having and evolution, means scyther would be Low 7-B.

Heracross should scale to it. As well as Pinsir.

Vikavolt is a 3rd evo, so High 6-C.