Pokémon Trainer revisions (RPG Edition)

[StekFence]

I’d assume so.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

If that's the case then Eternatus would also become Creation Trio level (Since Eternatus's only feat is being comparable to Leon, and without it Eternatus is literally featless)

Cynthia's Garchomp also didn't do that well against Thundurus, so I dunno about it being Creation Trio level

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

We are referring to the Games Adam.

If that's the case then Eternatus would also become Creation Trio level (Since Eternatus's only feat is being comparable to Leon, and without it Eternatus is literally featless)

Cynthia's Garchomp also didn't do that well against Thundurus, so I dunno about it being Creation Trio level

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

We are referring to the Games Adam.

Don't the Anime and Manga characters scale to the Games characters tho (Alain scaling to Lysandre and Mitsumi scaling to Cynthia)

 

[Elizhaa]

I am more or less neutral on RPG points but there are a few oddball cases like Cynthia's pokemons which seem to suggest being able to fight the end-game legendary pokemons in generation 4 but in the newer generations, they lose to arguably weaker pokemons.
In any case, here is the thread where the discussion rule above on the verse was accepted for more contexts; it would probably be ideal to get more staffs inputs like in the last thread.

I am fine with Cyrus' case.

 

[Arceus0x]

ngl this whole thing is gonna be a colossal pain in the ass for me, like one the size of a continent. cause i know a certain someone who will use this to absolutely ruin the entire pokemon scaling chain once he gets unblocked

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I am more or less neutral on RPG points but there are a few oddball cases like Cynthia's pokemons which seem to suggest being able to fight the end-game legendary pokemons in generation 4 but in the newer generations, they lose to arguably weaker pokemons.
In any case, here is the thread where the discussion rule above on the verse was accepted for more contexts; it would probably be ideal to get more staffs inputs like in the last thread.

I am fine with Cyrus' case.

Cynthia defeating Cyrus with Palkia comes from a cutscene, not gameplay

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Cynthia defeating Cyrus with Palkia comes from a cutscene, not gameplay

When did Cynthia fight Cyrus?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

When did Cynthia fight Cyrus?

Pokémon Masters. During Cyrus' event with Palkia

Cynthia also has Giratina in this game

 

[Arceus0x]

why do we consider masters as canon? Wouldn't it be its own separate thing?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

why do we consider masters as canon? Wouldn't it be its own separate thing?

That's what I'm saying. It shouldn't be canon to the main games, though the games are canon to it

Honestly Pokemon in general should be split in some regards rather than remaining composite

 

[Firestorm808]

I can agree with the protags of games scaling to the highest challenge in the game.

 

[Starter_Pack]

That's what I'm saying. It shouldn't be canon to the main games, though the games are canon to it

Honestly Pokemon in general should be split in some regards rather than remaining composite

Okay, I do not want us opening that can of worms right now.

Just to clarify with everyone, this is a discussion about the GAME variants of these trainers scaling to the feats in the GAME canon. We'll talk about what to do with Manga and Anime and whether compositing should be even done at a later date.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Okay, I do not want us opening that can of worms right now.

Just to clarify with everyone, this is a discussion about the GAME variants of these trainers scaling to the feats in the GAME canon. We'll talk about what to do with Manga and Anime and whether compositing should be even done at a later date.

Pokemon Masters is a game tho

 

[Starter_Pack]

Which is of extremely dubious canonicity to the main games. It's like trying to scale mainline Fire Emblem characters to Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Which is of extremely dubious canonicity to the main games. It's like trying to scale mainline Fire Emblem characters to Fire Emblem Heroes.

technically that's canon, it just throws the entire scaling chain on its head. I also recall some thread about Masters being canon, but I didn't participate nor am I knowledgeable

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Without using the Anime or Masters:

• Champion Blue, Elite4 Lance and Alder stay at 6-C
• Gen2 Elite4, Champion Lance and Gen2 Red become 6-B
• Piers, Raihan, Chairman Rose, Leon, Hop, Peony, Champion tournament Trainers become High 6-A
• Gen 3 Elite4, Wally, Wallace and Steven become High 6-A or 5-B with ORAS
• Zinnia, B/W N, Ghetsis and Cheren, B2/W2 Elite4, Champion Iris, Colress, Lysandre, AZ, Gen6 Elite4, Diantha, Alola Elite Four, Title Defense Trainers become "At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A"
• Barry, Gen 4 Elite4, Cynthia, Palmer, Dahlia, RainbowRocket Giovanni and all Battle Tree and World Tournament trainers become "At least 2-B, likely 2-A"

 

[StekFence]

2-A Barry

 

[Firestorm808]

We have pokemon fought in-game at 2-B and higher?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We have pokemon fought in-game at 2-B and higher?

Only Team Rainbow Rocket. Cyrus has Palkia there

Other than that I think only N used either Reshiram or Zekrom

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Only Team Rainbow Rocket. Cyrus has Palkia there

Other than that I think only N used either Reshiram or Zekrom

Palmer also has a Cresselia

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Honestly Pokemon in general should be split in some regards rather than remaining composite

This
My personal solution is to keep the profiles the same, but split how they’re scaled to. For example, and this is purely hypothetical, Tornadus shouldn’t scale to fighting Zygarde in the anime when Zygarde’s feat is in the manga (this entire scenario is completely made up, but it’s just to prove my point).

 

[Purmeenant]

I just realized something about the scaling to Legendaries specific for the anime. Why do we have "At 3-A with Z moves" even though trainers are shown to be able to fight Ultra Beasts without them? Like Ash straight up defeated and knocked out Silvally without the use them as well as match it blow for blow.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I just realized something about the scaling to Legendaries specific for the anime. Why do we have "At 3-A with Z moves" even though trainers are shown to be able to fight Ultra Beasts without them? Like Ash straight up defeated and knocked out Silvally without the use them as well as match it blow for blow.

see, the thing is, I’m unsure how to handle the anime. Games I’m adamant on due to well…this thread. But the anime I’m iffy.

 

[The_Impress]

Isn't the anime different continuity?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Isn't the anime different continuity?

Yea. At the very least a different universe…mostly

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Without using the Anime or Masters:

• Champion Blue, Elite4 Lance and Alder stay at 6-C
• Gen2 Elite4, Champion Lance and Gen2 Red become 6-B
• Piers, Raihan, Chairman Rose, Leon, Hop, Peony, Champion tournament Trainers become High 6-A
• Gen 3 Elite4, Wally, Wallace and Steven become High 6-A or 5-B with ORAS
• Zinnia, B/W N, Ghetsis and Cheren, B2/W2 Elite4, Champion Iris, Colress, Lysandre, AZ, Gen6 Elite4, Diantha, Alola Elite Four, Title Defense Trainers become "At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A"
• Barry, Gen 4 Elite4, Cynthia, Palmer, Dahlia, RainbowRocket Giovanni and all Battle Tree and World Tournament trainers become "At least 2-B, likely 2-A"

This is more or less what I’m going for, yeah. Though Volkner would be added to the G4 scaling, as he’s canonically E4 level and is Flint’s equal.
Also G1’s peak should get bird scaling, while endgame Ethan and G1/2 Red (and just those two) should get Mewtwo scaling. At least imo.

I also don’t know how to handle the PWT. Battle Tree does scale to G4 stuff but PWT might make things too messy.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I also have a question about one Pokémon in particular: Mewtwo. Because Rainbow Rocket Giovanni is very consistently the strongest villain in the franchise, and Mewtwo is his ace in both, the mainline games and Masters (in USUM, Giovanni left that universe to terrorize wherever Masters takes place), do we give Mewtwo a RR key alongside upgrading Giovanni?
Mind you, this would only affect Mewtwo. No other Legendary changes with the plot. All the other evil team leaders are never compared to each other. Giovanni is the only one who’s canonically the strongest of em

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Giovanni's Mewtwo was mega amped ontop of Mega Evolution was and forced to break his limits three times over in Masters

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I also have a question about one Pokémon in particular: Mewtwo. Because Rainbow Rocket Giovanni is very consistently the strongest villain in the franchise, and Mewtwo is his ace in both, the mainline games and Masters (in USUM, Giovanni left that universe to terrorize wherever Masters takes place), do we give Mewtwo a RR key alongside upgrading Giovanni?
Mind you, this would only affect Mewtwo. No other Legendary changes with the plot. All the other evil team leaders are never compared to each other. Giovanni is the only one who’s canonically the strongest of em

I wants me a tier 2 Mootoo

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Retired Cal isn't even a beast, he's someone that rants over stuff but rarely actually does something.

based and false and annoying and L + cope + seethe + mald + no maidens + shut up + banana + Hop knows you are but what is Hop + get trolled

Anyway, Hop would like know if Cal has more to say

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Giovanni's Mewtwo was mega amped ontop of Mega Evolution was and forced to break his limits three times over in Masters

Idk about the amp stuff but limits sounds like it was under its own power. Also that wouldn’t change that USUM, Giovanni + Mewtwo > Cyrus + Pal/Dia

Also should probably state that other Pokémon, Legendaries or otherwise, can reach that level under the right trainer. Giovanni’s Mewtwo is just the only one out of nearly a thousand that’s story-relevant (with a possible exception of like, maybe Red’s Charizard)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Idk about the amp stuff but limits sounds like it was under its own power. Also that wouldn’t change that USUM, Giovanni + Mewtwo > Cyrus + Pal/Dia

Also should probably state that other Pokémon, Legendaries or otherwise, can reach that level under the right trainer. Giovanni’s Mewtwo is just the only one out of nearly a thousand that’s story-relevant (with a possible exception of like, maybe Red’s Charizard)

Based.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Also should The Galarian Star Tournament trainers scale to "At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A" since you can catch Type: Null and The Swords of Justice after The Crown Tundra (Also Leon being weaker than Lysandre feels wrong)

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

By that logic can't one argue the Galar trainer cam catch legendaries like the Creation Trio via the Dens?

I feel like we're only talking about canonical mon trainers use, so unfortunately I'm not sure the Galar trainers can scale too high just yet.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

By that logic can't one argue the Galar trainer cam catch legendaries like the Creation Trio via the Dens?

I feel like we're only talking about canonical mon trainers use, so unfortunately I'm not sure the Galar trainers can scale too high just yet.

The swords of justice are basically Roaming Legendaries in The Crown Tundra tho
If we can use the legendary birds for the Gen1 Elite4 and the legendary beasts for the Gen2 Elite4, I think we could do the same thing with Gen8

 

[theultimate5105]

The swords of justice are basically Roaming Legendaries in The Crown Tundra tho
If we can use the legendary birds for the Gen1 Elite4 and the legendary beasts for the Gen2 Elite4, I think we could do the same thing with Gen8

pretty sure in Crystal you catch suicune before the Elite 4

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Vic and Gloria should scale to the highest level because of the DLC, yeah. Giant Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina go brr

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So uh...is this accepted? Idk the standards anymore so I'm checking.