Pokemon Downgrade: 3-C and High 3-A are outliers

[Overlord775]

Currently, a lot of pockemon profiles are scales off 50% Zygarde fighting Ultra Necrozma, so about 10+ legendaries are currently 3-C, likely High 3-A

But this is utter nonsense, as litterally NO OTHER feat from any other legendary from the serie (Barring the cosmic-level people)are even come close to that level

In fact, the top dog legendaries are consistently Hgh 6-A to 5-B across all media.

So 50% Zygarde scaling to Nekrozma should be threated as an outlier as it completly contradicts the entire serie's power level for non-god tier legendaries and everybody that scales off that should be downgraded.

 

[Schnee_One]

Wasn't there a 4B feat they scaled off of prior?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

My reaction to this thread in a nutshell:

In fact, the top dog legendaries are consistently Hgh 6-A to 5-B across all media.

A weakened, nerfed avatar of Dialga is Low 2-C. All the tier 3s currently scale far below that.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Wasn't there a 4B feat they scaled off of prior?

The feat was recalced to 3-C.

 

[Lou_change]

Ok who shouldn't scale?

 

[Overlord775]

A weakened, nerfed avatar of Dialga is Low 2-C.

so because the avatar of a creator diety is low 2-C in a non-canon game (since we no longer threat PMD as canon as far as i understand) it means people in the same verse scaling to a single feat quintillions of times higher than they have ever shown is not outlier

totally solid argument there

Wasn't there a 4B feat they scaled off of prior?

it's the litterally the same feat as the one that gave the 3-C/High 3-A

 

[Schnee_One]

Thought they were two different feats

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Thought they were two different feats

Two different feats. 3-C is for absorbing the light. 4-A is for releasing.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ah I get it

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

so because the avatar of a creator diety is low 2-C in a non-canon game (since we no longer threat PMD as canon as far as i understand) it means people in the same verse scaling to a single feat quintillions of times higher than they have ever shown is not outlier

totally solid argument there

It's actually the only major feat of that tier of legendaries. The 5-B stuff scales to characters that are canonically fodderized by the Tier 3s (Rayquaza and Deoxys being the main example that comes to mind). Necrozma literally doesn't have any other feats that aren't scaling and it's established to be Far beyond the tier 5s but far below the tier 2s.

"Outlier" with nothing to back it up is not a valid argument

Also revised canon blog means we do treat PMD as canon now IIRC

 

[Chariot190]

the top dog legendaries are consistently Hgh 6-A to 5-B across all media.

There's actually a few Tier 4 at minimum feats scattered here and there. Shadow Mewtwo creating a pocket realm for example.

So 50% Zygarde scaling to 3-C/High 3-A should be threated as an outlier as it completly contradicts the entire serie's power level

And here's an issue with that imo, you forget that this tier 3 feat is the most recent feat for these characters, it's like, the last feat worth a damn that's been done, we haven't really seen any of them since minus like, cameos.
It hasn't been actively contradicted yet, in the same vain these characters began off at like 7-C back in Gen 1, moved up to 6-C in Gen 2, up to 6-B+ in Gen 3, then 6-A/5-C in Gen 5 and eventually Gen 5-B/A in Gen 6. Gen 7 kinda jumped the shark and now we have these ******* scaling to Tier 3, so unill we have actual anti-feats I'm a bit cautious of calling it an outlier based on how Pokemon has steadily jumped tiers every gen for these top legends.
I̶n̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶S̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶t̶a̶d̶ ̶s̶u̶s̶.̶ ̶

Thought they were two different feats

Probably were. There's one for absorbing light and one for spreading light iirc.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

We don't have a profile for Eternatus yet but they deadass followed up High 3-A gen 7 with a direct statement of infinite energy that ties in to the plot of Gen 8 so there's also that

 

[Chariot190]

We don't have a profile for Eternatus yet but they deadass followed up High 3-A gen 7 with a direct statement of infinite energy that ties in to the plot of Gen 8 so there's also that

I was thinking of that yeah. I just don't think we have a scaling between it and the Mewtwo/Deoxys/Dragon/Fug/etc cast. But either way, Tier 3 isnt exactly that uncommon post Gen 6.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

To play devils advocate I believe the OP still agrees with Perfect Zygarde (and those comparable to it) scaling to Nercozma but feels multiple mons scaling to tier 3 via 50% Zygarde getting beaten by Nercozma is "flimsy".

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

We don't have a profile for Eternatus yet

For the paper-thin "Gen 8 has no feats" bs. Put it at Unknown, scale it to regular Mons or something, anything, jus give it damn page.

 

[Everything12]

We don't have a profile for Eternatus yet but they deadass followed up High 3-A gen 7 with a direct statement of infinite energy that ties in to the plot of Gen 8 so there's also that

High 3-A Eternatus for the infinite energy statement was rejected when SwSh first came out. It has no proof it can output that level of power, it would be more like Infinite Stamina in that it can constantly generate energy without ever running out.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

High 3-A Eternatus for the infinite energy statement was rejected when SwSh first came out. It has no proof it can output that level of power, it would be more like Infinite Stamina.

So type 3 self substance?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

High 3-A Eternatus for the infinite energy statement was rejected when SwSh first came out. It has no proof it can output that level of power, it would be more like Infinite Stamina in that it can constantly generate energy without ever running out.

I'm aware. My point is "hee hoo infinite" isn't a one-off thing in Pokemon as of late.

 

[Overlord775]

@Iamunanimousinthat

Both of which come from Nekrozma, so doesn't matter

@ZephyrosOmega

That's false, as Deozys has fought on equal grounds against M-Ray in the games as swell in the Generation special was shown to be able to keep up and block attacks from it

Furthermore, both Primal Kyogra and Groudon have survived attacks from M-Ray without going insta-K.O.

Nobody scales to Eternatus outside of Gen 8 peeps, so doesn't matter, also endless energy doesn't means anything for AP


@Chariot190

The few tier 4 feats come from normal pokemons, so massive outliers not even worth considering or Dark Matter, which comes from a non-canon game. Shadow Mewtwo is super buffed by the stone, so it wouldn't scale to base (also i'm pretty sure the game is non-canon)

It hasn't been actively contradicted yet, in the same vain these characters began off at like 7-C back in Gen 1, moved up to 6-C in Gen 2, up to 6-B+ in Gen 3, then 6-A/5-C in Gen 5 and eventually Gen 5-B/A in Gen 6. Gen 7 kinda jumped the shark and now we have these ******* scaling to Tier 3, so unill we have actual anti-feats I'm a bit cautious of calling it an outlier based on how Pokemon has steadily jumped tiers every gen for these top legends.
I̶n̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶S̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶t̶a̶d̶ ̶s̶u̶s̶.̶ ̶

actually false since first the characters listed here weren't even present in Gen 1 and 2 and Ho-Ho and Lugia are weaksouce

Gen 3 already had legendary pokemons at High 6-A since Groudon and Kyogre already had their planetary feats

Gen 5 did not have 5-C feats

neither did Gen 6 had one 5-B feat, but it only scales to 100% Zygarde, rest nothing

so no, your logic makes no sense, they haven't really been protrayed as constantly rising in level.

Character never protrayed as cosmic in scale shouldn't be scaled off to cosmic level because of one instance

@The_Axiom_of_Virgo

Ye, just want to axe the 50% Zygarde scaling

 

[Everything12]

Overlord isn't saying that Necrozma isn't Tier 3. They are saying that scaling 50% Zygarde and the large number of legends that scale to 50% Zygarde should be considered outliers for a lack of any other such feat or statement.

Can't say I disagree.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah if I'm being honest I never really liked the idea of 50% Zygarde scaling for simply knocking Ultra Necrozma away in midair before turning back into 100% right before getting hit by Ultra Necrozma's attack the next time we see it on screen. So if somebody wants to remove the scaling then I'm all for it.

 

[Garchomp777]

This makes 0 sense at all. Having tier 5 and 6 feats does not mean the tier 3 feats are outliers. They don't even struggle with tier 5 stuff.

 

[Overlord775]

@Garchomp777

having 10ish planetary feats compared to 1 cosmic scaling off a single showing means the scaling is an outlier

@all

do add to my argument, you have to remember that Pokemon is a really inconsistent verse, with Base pokemon often fighting and beating Fully evolved pokemos across all medias as swell as normal and egendaries pokemons battling against the Creation Trio across all media, meanwhile the Zygarde thing isa one off thing from the manga

LEGENDARIES SCALING TO 2-B IS MORE CONSISTENT THAN THIS

so Zygarde hitting cosmic tier because of poking Ultra Necrozma is nonsense because of how inconsistent the verse is and how it would be akin to scaling Heatran to Giratina

 

[Axxtentacle]

It’s not an outlier if it contradicts nothing. If those feats are relatively casual, then they show bigger feats later, it’s not an outlier. I’m saying this because you seem to be under the idea that because it’s way higher, it’s by default an outlier. Which is just not how it works.

 

[Overlord775]

It contradicts the power level of the legendaries being repetedly and repetedly shown as planetary, also said feats aren't what i would call "Casual"

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And of course this was made when I've been busy with schoolwork. Sigh

Anyway, seeing as I was the one who got them upgraded in the first place, I'll respond to this in full, and already going to completely disagree.

 

[Axxtentacle]

It contradicts the power level of the legendaries being repetedly and repetedly shown as planetary, also said feats aren't what i would call "Casual"

But it doesn’t contradict the feats. Them being casually that level does not mean they can’t be higher with a higher feat.

That doesn’t contradict anything. It just means we have a low and we have a high for their scaling.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Currently, a lot of pockemon profiles are scales off 50% Zygarde fighting Ultra Necrozma, so about 10+ legendaries are currently 3-C, likely High 3-A

But this is utter nonsense, as litterally NO OTHER feat from any other legendary from the serie (Barring the cosmic-level people)are even come close to that level

In fact, the top dog legendaries are consistently Hgh 6-A to 5-B across all media.

So 50% Zygarde scaling to Nekrozma should be threated as an outlier as it completly contradicts the entire serie's power level for non-god tier legendaries and everybody that scales off that should be downgraded.

Okay so aside from what others have probably already said here before I came here, your little bit of an argument given here is just "outlier, outlier, OUTLIER!". Which isn't an actual argument and is just, as usual, being overused.

First off, this vague argument of "literally NO OTHER feat" is completely irrelevant. Why? Because scaling is what's a thing here for these guys for the most part. It's as was said in the upgrade thread by yours truly. For something to exist as an outlier, lower end feats that are indicative of a characters portrayal of power are required in order to substantiate the claim of an outlier. Just as you would numbers on a graph, you take the feats of the character and compare them all to one another. The feat that becomes "the odd one out" above or below everything else becomes the outlier, for it isn't consistent by any sort of means. However, if there are no other conflicting feats to compare to the feat in question, the latter by sheer textbook definition and how it works cannot be considered an outlier. Why? Because the feat in question is their only feat, and by that virtue, this feat is what's consistent for the character.

This case for the upgraded Pokemon is the latter case.

That's false, as Deozys has fought on equal grounds against M-Ray in the games as swell in the Generation special was shown to be able to keep up and block attacks from it

Which we don't accept on this site. You probably should've fact checked the pages first before you try and present a case where your argument for it already isn't an ironclad basis.

Deoxys in every iteration of Pokemon has been fodderized by Mega Rayquaza in anything that isn't a speed contest. And this is coming from someone who initially argued for him to scale to the latter's AP. If you disagree, better get in a CRT for him before using it here.

Furthermore, both Primal Kyogra and Groudon have survived attacks from M-Ray without going insta-K.O.

Which we also don't accept here. So same as above.

Nobody scales to Eternatus outside of Gen 8 peeps, so doesn't matter, also endless energy doesn't means anything for AP

Somewhat right here, but you kinda missed the point on why it was brought up in the first place. "Endless"/Limitless energy was used as a means of supporting the idea of the upgrade, and is not the main basis. So this doesn't help you as much as you want to think it does.

snip

Again, all of this is just ignoring the fact that these legendaries get their tiers from scaling from one to the other, and the feats that they do perform at (ignoring the fact that Ex's canon blog will reinstate some of these, which will speak more to the point here) are casual. Neither of which are indicative of an outlier argument.

And as for axing 50% Zygarde from scaling to Ultra Necrozma, that is a no too. We already accept the fact that 50% Zygarde is far inferior to Ultra Necrozma, but that doesn't at all mean that he cannot be in the same realm of power as him, which the OP seems to either lack the concept of or is ignoring it.

So all in all, im completely against any of these downgrades. Better counter arguments than this were already made in the thread, and the majority disagreed with and addressed them. On top of that, people seem to keep forgetting that the High 3-A aspect of the upgrades, even WITH the arguments for them, were only at best given a "Likely". Not even a solid upgrade as a means of acknowledging the possibility of it being the case in the first place.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Okay so aside from what others have probably already said here before I came here, your little bit of an argument given here is just "outlier, outlier, OUTLIER!". Which isn't an actual argument and is just, as usual, being overused.

First off, this vague argument of "literally NO OTHER feat" is completely irrelevant. Why? Because scaling is what's a thing here for these guys for the most part. It's as was said in the upgrade thread by yours truly. For something to exist as an outlier, lower end feats that are indicative of a characters portrayal of power are required in order to substantiate the claim of an outlier. Just as you would numbers on a graph, you take the feats of the character and compare them all to one another. The feat that becomes "the odd one out" above or below everything else becomes the outlier, for it isn't consistent by any sort of means. However, if there are no other conflicting feats to compare to the feat in question, the latter by sheer textbook definition and how it works cannot be considered an outlier. This case for the upgraded Pokemon is the latter case.


Which we don't accept on this site. You probably should've fact checked the pages first before you try and present a case where your argument for it already isn't an ironclad basis.

Deoxys in every iteration of Pokemon has been fodderized by Mega Rayquaza in anything that isn't a speed contest. And this is coming from someone who initially argued for him to scale to the latter's AP. If you disagree, better get in a CRT for him before using it here.

Which we also don't accept here. So same as above.

Somewhat right here, but you kinda missed the point on why it was brought up in the first place. "Endless"/Limitless energy was used as a means of supporting the idea of the upgrade, and is not the main basis. So this doesn't help you as much as you want to think it does.

Again, all of this is just ignoring the fact that these legendaries get their tiers from scaling from one to the other, and the feats that they do perform at (ignoring the fact that Ex's canon blog will reinstate some of these, which will speak more to the point here) are casual. Neither of which are indicative of an outlier argument.

And as for axing 50% Zygarde from scaling to Ultra Necrozma, that is a no too. We already accept the fact that 50% Zygarde is far inferior to Ultra Necrozma, but that doesn't at all mean that he cannot be in the same realm of power as him, which the OP seems to either lack the concept of or is ignoring it.

So all in all, im completely against any of these downgrades. Better counter arguments than this were already made in the thread, and the majority disagreed with and addressed them. On top of that, people seem to keep forgetting that the High 3-A aspect of the upgrades, even WITH the arguments for them, were only at best given a "Likely". Not even a solid upgrade as a means of acknowledging the possibility of it being the case in the first place.

Indeed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

By the way, on top of the 50% Zygarde scaling case, 50% is literally just half of Perfect Zygarde. That by itself already cements him scaling, even if you want to ignore him staggering Ultra Necrozma to an extent.

Which, unironically, becomes a supporting feat for Zygarde than being considered anything else.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You worded my point about outliers better than I did.

 

[Chariot190]

actually false since first the characters listed here weren't even present in Gen 1 and 2 and Ho-Ho and Lugia are weaksouce

Except you're wrong, Mewtwo, Deoxys, etc, etc all predate the **** outta Necrozma and Zygarde, yet they scale, Mewtwo back in Gen 1 topped out at like 7-C/B fyi, whatever Dragonair's city bust is, that was the best Pokemon feat for years. And Lugia is weak? Sure, nowadays, but back then? It was stronger then Mewtwo based on feats. At the time the best feat in all of Pokemon's main canon was from Lugia. And as such, case and point. These characters you're complaining about scaling have steadily went from 7-C, to Tier 6, to 5 and so on, steadily jumping tiers every gen. Are you going to complain about Groudon scaling to Tier 5 because before said Tier 5 feats, he was only 6-B. Or Mewtwo scaling to anything above 7-C because his best feat for years was only that? Like it or not, feats that are better can happen, and if the last feat in question is tier 3, I'm not so keen and calling it an outlier because it's simply the best feat when Pokemon has a long standing track record of coming out with huge feats that dwarf the previous ones every single gen and the Pokemon prior scaling to said new feat.
My point being, your argument of "top legends only having feats of ____ tier before this one" is bad and is one of the worst possible arguments you can use when talking about not only the most recent feat, as in, the newest feat and showing of power, but in a verse that has done this for decades? Seems like an argument of incredulity and not actually having watched the franchise jump the shark in real time.

Gen 5 did not have 5-C feats

Zekrom and Reshiram's Lore and Dex entries say hi.

neither did Gen 6 had one 5-B feat, but it only scales to 100% Zygarde, rest nothing

PMD Fug/Deoxys Feat is 5-B. Primals have some 5-B shit last I checked. Shadow Mewtwo's Nuke (5-A iirc, but is probably 5-B after a recalc, pretty sure the the cloud and KE aspect of it is heavily outdated), one of like, the numerous incarnations of Grand Delta. Grand Delta in the Manga being 5-A. Like what are you on about? Gen 6 had a **** ton of planetary feats.

so no, your logic makes no sense, they haven't really been protrayed as constantly rising in level.

Except they have and something tells me you very clearly haven't been following Pokemon since it first came out, or even for half of it, because you're beyond wrong. **** it's easy to prove you wrong. Find a feat above Tier 7 in Gen 1, trust me, you can't. Find a feat above Island in Gen 2 (You can't). Find a feat above Country level in Gen 3 (At the time, nothing). Find a feat above PMD' Deoxys in Gen 4 (Ignoring Cosmics), find a feat beyond planetary ashing or vaporizing seas and shit in Gen 5. Gen 6 is when Pokemon really starting hitting planet busting and the like, while previously basically nothing implied that. And then Gen 7 brought out some cosmic feats for the non god legends. It's basic power escalition dude and it's being going on since Pokemon began.

Gen 3 already had legendary pokemons at High 6-A since Groudon and Kyogre already had their planetary feats

Not in Gen 3 they didn't, that didn't come to be till further elaboration on them and not fully shown till Gen 6 in ORAS. Back when RSE first came out and when the manga was being published? The best feat was country level.

Character never protrayed as cosmic in scale shouldn't be scaled off to cosmic level because of one instance

Maybe if they had any anti-feats post Gen 7 to speak of. Unfortunately, your argument could have applied to every single time Pokemon got a nice new shiny feat that exceeded the previous upper limit. Which would have been a lot. Also technically speaking it's two feats, Necrozma has two feats of cosmic caliber, and technically so do the Lunar Duo.

If you want to argue it as an outlier, stick to Zygarde 50% simply not scaling at all rather then the "well it's to high compared to older feats", because the latter argument is suspect as ****. At least with Zygarde you could argue he doesn't scale at all based on him getting floored rather then it simply not counting just because. But as Kukui mentioned, 50% of 100% kinda speaks for itself.

 

[Garchomp777]

@Garchomp777

having 10ish planetary feats compared to 1 cosmic scaling off a single showing means the scaling is an outlier

@all

do add to my argument, you have to remember that Pokemon is a really inconsistent verse, with Base pokemon often fighting and beating Fully evolved pokemos across all medias as swell as normal and egendaries pokemons battling against the Creation Trio across all media, meanwhile the Zygarde thing isa one off thing from the manga

LEGENDARIES SCALING TO 2-B IS MORE CONSISTENT THAN THIS

so Zygarde hitting cosmic tier because of poking Ultra Necrozma is nonsense because of how inconsistent the verse is and how it would be akin to scaling Heatran to Giratina

That's an extremely bad comparison. Having 10 planetary feats does not contradict 1 tier 4 feat. They do not struggle with tier 5 or below, at all.

I do agree with heatran, zygarde all scaling above giratina, but we discuss that outside of this thread. So those things are not at all valid comparisons. If you still want to use the argument that 2-B scaling for them is more consistent, you're not proving tier 4 is an outlier, you're proving tier 2 isn't an outlier at all

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I do agree with heatran, zygarde all scaling above giratina, but we discuss that outside of this thread. So those things are not at all valid comparisons. If you still want to use the argument that 2-B scaling for them is more consistent, you're not proving tier 4 is an outlier, you're proving tier 2 isn't an outlier at all

Garchomp, step back with this. I got this.

And bringing up over-inflated stats in a downgrade thread is....only going to ask for trouble. So stop with this please.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Frankly.

The feat itself is fine if it only scales to the Alola legendaries.

But it scaling to a huge chunk of the Legendaries based off a single interaction in the Manga is ridiculous.

For now I'd rather ignore Zygarde keeping up with Necrozma (Both in AP and speed) and make everyone go back to 5-B and Relat+. If later down the line there ends up being more scaling to the Alola crew, then the feat itself would probably become an outlier.

 

[Garchomp777]

Garchomp, step back with this. I got this.

And bringing up over-inflated stats in a downgrade thread is....only going to ask for trouble. So stop with this please.

I aint tryna upgrade them here just sayin' its false equivalency

Ok you got it lol

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Frankly.

The feat itself is fine if it only scales to the Alola legendaries.

But it scaling to a huge chunk of the Legendaries based off a single interaction in the Manga is ridiculous.

Except, its not even just a single interaction? Zygarde in the games as well is literally specified to have specifically left Kalos, and come to Alola, to fight off the Ultra Beasts. And his power has been continuously specified to be of their level in said manga as well.

The only reason why we didn't upgrade Zygarde at the formers time was because he did not yet have feats to back those claims up. Which we now do have from the manga.

You can't call scaling ridiculous when we've literally waited for said feats to finally come here before upgrading him, and now that they are here, they magically don't sustain the notion that Zyagrde is blantanly on their level with nothing saying otherwise? THAT is what's ridiculous. Laughable even.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The "Zygarde leaving Kalos for Alola" thing was never accepted back then. And it shouldn't now. It doesn't make Zygarde strong enough to fight said threat just because he showed up there. So it's still only one actual solid example of scaling. And considering the huge power difference between Zygarde's crew, one would be very justified in making Zygarde fighting Necrozma an outlier.

But if you're so dead set on making Zygarde scale to Necrozma, then the title of the OP just becomes true. ******* High 3-A on a bunch of character with Tier 5 feats at max (including cases like Rayquaza, where a boost in power in the form of Mega Evolution was needed to even do the TIer 5 feat) is dumb and textbook outlier.

Mind you I thought the same thing back when you all decided to make Mewtwo MFTL+ and 4-B. It's just even dumber now that people are High 3-A for it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The "Zygarde leaving Kalos for Alola" thing was never accepted back then. And it shouldn't now.

Because, again, he didn't have feats at the time to substantiate that. He does now. So yes, it very much should be accepted.

It doesn't make Zygarde strong enough to fight said threat just because he showed up there.

Uh? Again, he has feats of fighting them now. Thats why it's accepted now.

So it's still only one actual solid example of scaling.

No, its several examples that all back up the main point that he's on their level.

And considering the huge power difference between Zygarde's crew, one would be very justified in making Zygarde fighting Necrozma an outlier.

There's "no huge" power difference between him and, who im going to assume your talking about, the aura trio. Outside of his Perfect form obviously, 50% is no stronger or weaker than Yveltal and Xerneas.

And now we are going back to this "outlier" nonsense despite Necrozma being Zygarde's literal only feats of scaling besides fighting the former 2.

But if you're so dead set on making Zygarde scale to Necrozma, then the title of the OP just becomes true. ******* High 3-A on a bunch of character with Tier 5 feats at max (including cases like Rayquaza, where a boost in power in the form of Mega Evolution was needed to even do the TIer 5 feat) is dumb and textbook outlier.

I don't really care because the OP, as I've explained and how others here have explained, is dead and blatantly wrong.

"Tier 5 feats at max" when majority of these legendaries receive their tiers from scaling, and the feats that are tier 5 are very casual, doesn't prove this as an outlier in the slightest. And yes, Mega Rayquaza is a non-argument unless you want to ignore the fact that he dealt with Deoxys very easily as well.

Mind you I thought the same thing back when you all decided to make Mewtwo MFTL+ and 4-B. It's just even dumber now that people are High 3-A for it.

You can call it dumb, but that doesn't actually make it such. Especially when the verse has undergone very drastic changes in power from that time. New circumstances, new results.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frankly.

The feat itself is fine if it only scales to the Alola legendaries.

But it scaling to a huge chunk of the Legendaries based off a single interaction in the Manga is ridiculous.

For now I'd rather ignore Zygarde keeping up with Necrozma (Both in AP and speed) and make everyone go back to 5-B and Relat+. If later down the line there ends up being more scaling to the Alola crew, then the feat itself would probably become an outlier.

Time to debunk your nonsense.

A lot of feats here are based on a single interaction, also, an outlier is if it contradicts the power systems of a verse. Nothing here makes whoever scales from Mega Mewtwo an outlier, especially if they never struggled against a 5-B threat, especially when Mega Rayquaza uber stomped Deoxys with zero effort as even stated in the OP. Xerneas High 6-A feat was just a mere fraction of its true power too.

Zygarde coming to is pretty much a proof of UBs being a threat = to Xerneas and Yveltal, and Zygarde is stated to come anytime a new threat for the ecosystem comes to the Earth. It did for UBs like it did for Xerneas and Yveltal so what's wrong here.