Hellsing: High 7-C Issues And Other Stuff

[WeeklyBattles]

Aight, been sitting on this one for a bit longer than I meant to, but here we go. So, Alucard is currently High 7-C for this feat of manipulating fog over London with his telekinesis. The glaring issue with this is that this feat is super inconsistent with the actual physical showings of both Alucard and those who are comparable to him in physical power. Aside from the Town level feat Alucard performed in Level 0, which was also done by non-physical means, the highest feat of physical durability comes from Alucard tanking the explosion of the SR-71 Blackbird, which comes out to High 8-C. Not to say that the High 7-C feat is not legitimate, just that it should be something that only scales to his telekinesis, with his physical power being brought down to High 8-C so as to be consistent with the other showings of physical power in the verse.

Speaking of the blackbird, Alucard should probably get Vehicular Mastery due to his ability to pilot that craft, which is noted to be particularly tricky and delicate to fly properly.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Following

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Can we discuss speed as well? The current calc used is from 2014 and was done on another website. It also has two ends, one mach 33 the other 109 yet the cast is listed as High Hypersonic+ for some reason.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Aight, been sitting on this one for a bit longer than I meant to, but here we go. So, Alucard is currently High 7-C for this feat of manipulating fog over London with his telekinesis. The glaring issue with this is that this feat is super inconsistent with the actual physical showings of both Alucard and those who are comparable to him in physical power. Aside from the Town level feat Alucard performed in Level 0, which was also done by non-physical means, the highest feat of physical durability comes from Alucard tanking the explosion of the SR-71 Blackbird, which comes out to High 8-C. Not to say that the High 7-C feat is not legitimate, just that it should be something that only scales to his telekinesis, with his physical power being brought down to High 8-C so as to be consistent with the other showings of physical power in the verse.

Speaking of the blackbird, Alucard should probably get Vehicular Mastery due to his ability to pilot that craft, which is noted to be particularly tricky and delicate to fly properly.

Taking advantage of this CRT. Alucard has type 4 immortality, but no resurrection in his P&A section. I think he should have. Also he has the face of the cards as absorbed, so shouldn't Alucard have regeneration negation? If you can put it in the OP...

-------------------------------
Now speaking of the crt, I think I agree. Didn't that London blood count also come out as Hight 7-C? I think it at least shows consistency in telekinesis (although I don't think fog is made by telekinesis)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can we discuss speed as well? The current calc used is from 2014 and was done on another website. It also has two ends, one mach 33 the other 109 yet the cast is listed as High Hypersonic+ for some reason.

Hmm...yeah that should probably be addressed too...

Taking advantage of this CRT. Alucard has type 4 immortality, but no resurrection in his P&A section. I think he should have. Also he has the face of the cards as absorbed, so shouldn't Alucard have regeneration negation? If you can put it in the OP...

He should yeah

Now speaking of the crt, I think I agree. Didn't that London blood count also come out as Hight 7-C? I think it at least shows consistency in telekinesis (although I don't think fog is made by telekinesis)

One end was 7-C, one end was 7-B

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[Da3ggman]

Tbh I always thought that was a bit weird. I agree.

 

[Ped2018]

Did you call Crab?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Did you call Crab?

Yup

 

[Hiryu-Z]

I agree

 

[Phsccarvalho]

He should yeah

Both?

 

[Jason_Courne]

Wouldn't the blood calculation count as physical power since he physically absorbed it?
If his body couldn't handle that much blood it would have exploded or gotten destroyed, but his body was capable of absorbing that many souls

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Wouldn't the blood calculation count as physical power since he physically absorbed it?
If his body couldn't handle that much blood it would have exploded or gotten destroyed, but his body was capable of absorbing that many souls

Something something pocket dimension that stores all of his blood, otherwise alucard would have to be gigantic in order to have that much blood in his body

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Greatsage13th]

Something something pocket dimension that stores all of his blood, otherwise alucard would have to be gigantic in order to have that much blood in his body

Or he simply condensed the blood into a smaller volume?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

This is a dirty thread honestly. You have not addressed the main arguments, such as the UPS

You have just said "Its telekinesis and that's it"
Also, your logic has already been argued in the original thread

But I genuinely neither agree nor disagree
But

tanking the explosion of the SR-71 Blackbird, which comes out to High 8-C

I disagree with the calculation. The PSI values are not that easy to use, it would require a much larger destruction and evidence. The explosion doesn't even look like air based.
Using kinetic energy would be a thousand times more reliable and safer

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is a dirty thread honestly. You have not addressed the main arguments, such as the UPS

You have just said "Its telekinesis and that's it"
Also, your logic has already been argued in the original thread

But I genuinely neither agree nor disagree
But

I disagree with the calculation. The PSI values are not that easy to use, it would require a much larger destruction and evidence. The explosion doesn't even look like air based.
Using kinetic energy would be a thousand times more reliable and safer

Its moreso a formality thread, as the majority of hellsing supporters already agreed with the downgrade but no one made the thread

And apparently the KE is almost exactly the same

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Its moreso a formality thread, as the majority of hellsing supporters already agreed with the downgrade but no one made the thread

Not everyone knows about it, so creating a thread basically ignoring old arguments can end up being confusing for readers who are not involved

And apparently the KE is almost exactly the same

The weight is 68946.0402 kg and the speed is Mach 2.8
The KE would result 31796816119.3 Joules, aka 7.59962144336 Tons of TNT.
Incredibly higher value

 

[Jason_Courne]

I just found a physical Low 7-C feat through MoG Anderson's holy fire feat

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I just found a physical Low 7-C feat through MoG Anderson's holy fire feat

Would need that to be evaluated but even then thats still not something that would scale to physicals, on top of it being something that MoG Anderson did, ie. amped well beyond his normal level of power

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not everyone knows about it, so creating a thread basically ignoring old arguments can end up being confusing for readers who are not involved

The weight is 68946.0402 kg and the speed is Mach 2.8
The KE would result 31796816119.3 Joules, aka 7.59962144336 Tons of TNT.
Incredibly higher value

Shrug

Best to ask the guy who did the calc then, as the method and result was accepted by the calc team

 

[Jason_Courne]

Would need that to be evaluated but even then thats still not something that would scale to physicals, on top of it being something that MoG Anderson did, ie. amped well beyond his normal level of power

Alucard was at the direct epicenter of Anderson's Holy Fire and took the brunt of the attack, true vampire Seras could handle getting enveloped in the vines and growing flames.
And in Level 1, Alucard was completely unphased by the flames and just punched straight through MoG Anderson

It was actually used to burn away all of Alucard's souls / familiars, so it would have had an even larger AOE now that I think about it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Alucard was at the direct epicenter of Anderson's Holy Fire and took the brunt of the attack, true vampire Seras could handle getting enveloped in the vines and growing flames.
And in Level 1, Alucard was completely unphased by the flames and just punched straight through MoG Anderson

It was actually used to burn away all of Alucard's souls / familiars, so it would have had an even larger AOE now that I think about it

I mean, thats great and all but that still wouldnt be a direct 7-C feat, that would be like saying a fire burning down a building is 8-C

 

[The_Pink_God]

I'm fairly sure the the creation of fire is AP applicable, taking it wouldn't it be though
I also remember that we don't scale fire to physicals normally, when we had Herah profile, she was High 6-C with fire due to burninng away a forest
Anos was Low 2-C with fire before he got reset
And if you want an active example just look at Agna from Fire Punch
So unless there's some proof that MoG Anderson scales physically to his fire, he would just be like

High 8-C, Low 7-C with holy fire

 

[Jason_Courne]

I mean, thats great and all but that still wouldnt be a direct 7-C feat, that would be like saying a fire burning down a building is 8-C

What? How are those two even comparable?
The sheer heat generated by the flames is Low 7-C, just by existing Anderson's holy fire is generating Low 7-C energy

Like I cannot stress this enough, the fire just existing, was Low 7-C, and Alucard was at the direct epicenter of it

 

[Metalballrun]

Unless I misunderstood something, one of the calc's variables is the size of the fire which led to its Low 7-C result. Alucard wouldn't necessarily scale to that entire thing because it's not concentrated on him.
It's not an explosion calc either, which is afaik usually where the epicenter scaling conversation starts (even then it doesn't necessarily mean it would scale for certain).

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah that too, the calc uses an explosion method for fire, that wouldnt work, you would need to use an actual fire calc method

 

[The_Pink_God]

Yeah that too, the calc uses an explosion method for fire, that wouldnt work, you would need to use an actual fire calc method

Not really
The calc seems to just take how hot the fire is and convert that to joules

 

[The_Pink_God]

And I pinged the wrong person... great

 

[Crabwhale]

As said on the thread that initially upgraded Hellsing to Tier 7, I'm neutral on this particular part. I can see the positives and negatives for each interpretation.

Vehicular Mastery is fine.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As said on the thread that initially upgraded Hellsing to Tier 7, I'm neutral on this particular part. I can see the positives and negatives for each interpretation.

Vehicular Mastery is fine.

I mean, we'd kinda need proof that it has any reason to scale to physicals in order to allow it to. That's the big issue

 

[Jason_Courne]

It's not an explosion calc either, which is afaik usually where the epicenter scaling conversation starts (even then it doesn't necessarily mean it would scale for certain).

I mean epicenter pretty much applies for everything

Yeah that too, the calc uses an explosion method for fire, that wouldnt work, you would need to use an actual fire calc method

I used specific heat capacity, that's it. Not ground blast or air blast, I just used specific heat capacity

Unless I misunderstood something, one of the calc's variables is the size of the fire which led to its Low 7-C result. Alucard wouldn't necessarily scale to that entire thing because it's not concentrated on him.

I mean, we'd kinda need proof that it has any reason to scale to physicals in order to allow it to. That's the big issue

Alucard was directly impaled with the holy bayonet that created the gignatic fire and was completely engulfed by the blaze, and in Level 1 he just sorta punched the flames away

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The ship movement and blood feats are not telekinesis feats. They are shadow manipulation and blood manipulation feats respectively.
He first engulfed the aircraft carrier and the SR-71 Blackbird with shadows in order to control their movements. While this is great support that his Level 1 scales to the ship explosion and movement feats, this is not a demonstration of telekinesis.

Before the Major refused the offer to become a vampire, the blood converged to him in tendrils similar to Alucard's feat, and this was used to contrast Alucard gathering London's blood to him. So the feat is related to the blood itself and doesn't demonstrate general telekinesis.

Anderson's holy fire isn't an explosion where Alucard is at the epicenter; it spontaneously set all of Alucard's familiars on fire.

So it is plausible for Alucard to only be physically exposed to a small amount of the energy shown.

---

Overall, the upgrade was based on UPS, though it appears much more consistent scaling wise to simply consider the Tier 7 feats Environmental Destruction. Also the UPS claim is that vampires become vastly stronger than they were before by drinking more blood, but didn't Seras become comparable to the Captain after drinking the blood of like one person? The scaling appears more dependent on what type a vampire is (artificial vampire, unawakened true vampire, awakened true vampire) than the quantity of blood they drank.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The ship movement and blood feats are not telekinesis feats. They are shadow manipulation and blood manipulation feats respectively.
He first engulfed the aircraft carrier and the SR-71 Blackbird with shadows in order to control their movements. While this is great support that his Level 1 scales to the ship explosion and movement feats, this is not a demonstration of telekinesis.

Before the Major refused the offer to become a vampire, the blood converged to him in tendrils similar to Alucard's feat, and this was used to contrast Alucard gathering London's blood to him. So the feat is related to the blood itself and doesn't demonstrate general telekinesis.

Anderson's holy fire isn't an explosion where Alucard is at the epicenter; it spontaneously set all of Alucard's familiars on fire.

So it is plausible for Alucard to only be physically exposed to a small amount of the energy shown.

---

Overall, the upgrade was based on UPS, though it appears much more consistent scaling wise to simply consider the Tier 7 feats Environmental Destruction. Also the UPS claim is that vampires become vastly stronger than they were before by drinking more blood, but didn't Seras become comparable to the Captain after drinking the blood of like one person? The scaling appears more dependent on what type a vampire is (artificial vampire, unawakened true vampire, awakened true vampire) than the quantity of blood they drank.

The telekinesis feat in question is in regards to the fog covering Alucard manipulated when he came back to London

 

[LordGinSama]

I'll reply in a few.

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Can we discuss speed as well? The current calc used is from 2014 and was done on another website. It also has two ends, one mach 33 the other 109 yet the cast is listed as High Hypersonic+ for some reason.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Best to have that recalced by someone

 

[The_Pink_God]

The calc being old isn't a problem even if it is from another website
The problem is the speed rating which match neither ends

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Taking advantage of the fact that this crt is to talk about these things, doesn't anyone find some of this calculation strange?

Disclaimer: It's not the blood of Alucard's enemies, it's blood that he himself manipulates.

So basically, Alucard floods all of London with blood. I'll be calculating the blood's kinetic energy.

Since it floods all of London, I'll take the surface area of London

However, the blood originates from Alucard

Now, as this was in the middle, the blood spread out omnidirectionally, so I'll use omnidirectional KE.

The calculation assumes that all this blood is Alucard's, and that he is spreading his own blood omnidirectionally and flooding London with his own blood.

So that's not what happens?

All that blood is from the dead people in London (those 3 million) and Alucard is drawing all the blood to him so he can absorb it (Also, this can be done by blood manipulation not telekinesis.). The premise of this calculation is quite wrong.

EDIT: This calculation, in addition to supporting tier 7, is what gives Alucard's Class T in LS.

EDIT 2: I forgot that this is the calculation the OP was talking about. I have doubts whether the calculation is legitimate.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Aight, been sitting on this one for a bit longer than I meant to, but here we go. So, Alucard is currently High 7-C for this feat of manipulating fog over London with his telekinesis. The glaring issue with this is that this feat is super inconsistent with the actual physical showings of both Alucard and those who are comparable to him in physical power. Aside from the Town level feat Alucard performed in Level 0, which was also done by non-physical means, the highest feat of physical durability comes from Alucard tanking the explosion of the SR-71 Blackbird, which comes out to High 8-C. Not to say that the High 7-C feat is not legitimate, just that it should be something that only scales to his telekinesis, with his physical power being brought down to High 8-C so as to be consistent with the other showings of physical power in the verse.

Speaking of the blackbird, Alucard should probably get Vehicular Mastery due to his ability to pilot that craft, which is noted to be particularly tricky and delicate to fly properly.

If you can put tags. I almost didn't find this crt again.

And I already made a crt about the issues I talked about here before (the cards that deny regeneration and etc), so it doesn't need to be discussed here.