Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That is entirely on us and probably a dumb decision on us. Even still there are case by case context. Another verse could’ve gotten their powers through external means like evolution so their god’s not responsible for it, or they make it incredibly apparent that the god can’t do what their creations can a la SMT. This is not either case. If god can create a rat that can shoot electricity, there’s no logical reason god can’t just create that electricity itself. Like no seriously, give me a good reason why that would make sense, that Arceus wouldn’t be able to do that. I’m genuinely asking without rhetoric or sarcasm (you know me well enough to know that I wouldn’t be snarky to ya). Especially when, again, Pokemon so far down on the chain of scale like Mew or even worse, Smeargle and Ditto, can do so no problem.

Mew can’t learn every attack.
And Ditto and Smeargle only learn attacks through specific copy moves, and in the case ditto, with the imposter ability.

and there is still questions?
Why summon these pokemon if Arceus supposedly can just replicate their power or why not transform into them

god can create a rat that can shoot electricity, there’s no logical reason god can’t just create that electricity itself.

This isn’t what’s up for debate. We already know Arceus has electricity manipulation and can do the general powers of all the typings.

This is a discussion about claiming Arceus has the pokemon abilities he has not shown to have, has them all at once, as well as the powers of non-pokemon.

it is this very specific thing we are debating. Your hypotheticals should be about that.

 

[hajime]

1. Everyone have right to comment and argue with their opinion, you have no right to tell them to not comment

2. It is the job of verse supporters to present the evidences to convince peoples and defend the points, not forcing other to search for evidences

Edit: Anyway i'm neutral, just please don't bring Swirl of Root or something in

If you're going to influence pokemon layering without knowing the pokemon, I'll be unfortunately involved.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That is entirely on us and probably a dumb decision on us. Even still there are case by case context. Another verse could’ve gotten their powers through external means like evolution so their god’s not responsible for it, or they make it incredibly apparent that the god can’t do what their creations can a la SMT. This is not either case. If god can create a rat that can shoot electricity, there’s no logical reason god can’t just create that electricity itself. Like no seriously, give me a good reason why that would make sense, that Arceus wouldn’t be able to do that. I’m genuinely asking without rhetoric or sarcasm (you know me well enough to know that I wouldn’t be snarky to ya). Especially when, again, Pokemon so far down on the chain of scale like Mew or even worse, Smeargle and Ditto, can do so no problem.

For the same reason creation users and power granters can't necessarily use the ability they gave their creations.
There simply is no reason to assume they can in the first place.
Why can one electric Pokémon not learn all the electric-type Pokémon? Because it requires talent, knowledge, affinity and physiologies the other electric types have and it doesn't.
And the same goes for Arceus. There is no reason to consider it exempt from those.

Given, your example is bad. Arceus can of course create basic electricity, having access to the electric plate. But let's look at a more complex case.
The current profile assumes the plates grant it access to the regeneration of Cryogonal and Dark Matter. (given, Dark Matter is problematic for much other reasons)
But Cryogonal is sentient ice and regenerates by just freezing the water/mist back together. Arceus isn't sentient ice. It really doesn't have the physiology for this regeneration.
Dark Matter regenerates from negative emotions, being born from hatred, sadness and rage. Arceus isn't. It obviously has no affinity for this ability.
Or what about skill swap? Some psychic types have figured out how to do that by manipulating their psychic powers in a particular way. Other psychics with equally or more impressive intelligence will never be able to use it, lacking the talent for it or something of that nature. Arceus has no real indication of having the knowledge nor the talent for it, so why would Arceus get it?

If you want to change the standard feel free to make a thread about giving all creation deities on the wiki copious amounts of abilities, though. I don't think it will by approved as it's extremely speculative and frequently contradicted in fiction (IIRC it was rejected before). And while the standard isn't changed in general, I wouldn't approve of the idea.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm telling you to research Pokemon verses, I'm not talking about the layering system, I'm talking about pokemon. I didn't derail. Those who don't know Pokemon shouldn't do pokemon tiering

First, I know Pokémon quite a decent amount. What I'm not familiar with is mostly the Pokémon threads that happened in the past and which arguments were presented in them.
Second, a great stance. As the only person that has read several of the verses I work on I declare that all their characters are Tier 0 and nobody that hasn't read them should say anything against it. Iwanaga-hime solos Pokémon. You haven't read her work, so you may not argue against that.

 

[Sniper670]

For the same reason creation users and power granters can't necessarily use the ability they gave their creations.
There simply is no reason to assume they can in the first place.
Why can one electric Pokémon not learn all the electric-type Pokémon? Because it requires talent, knowledge, affinity and physiologies the other electric types have and it doesn't.
And the same goes for Arceus. There is no reason to consider it exempt from those.

Talent, knowledge etc...

You mean Uxie? An aspect of Arceus? The very conception of Knowledge? Oh please

Given, your example is bad. Arceus can of course create basic electricity, having access to the electric plate. But let's look at a more complex case.

"Basic" is a limitation you're arbitrarily making when one does not exist.

レジェンドプレート
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

Translation :

Legend Plate
A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon.

The current profile assumes the plates grant it access to the regeneration of Cryogonal and Dark Matter. (given, Dark Matter is problematic for much other reasons)
But Cryogonal is sentient ice and regenerates by just freezing the water/mist back together. Arceus isn't sentient ice. It really doesn't have the physiology for this regeneration.
Dark Matter regenerates from negative emotions, being born from hatred, sadness and rage. Arceus isn't. It obviously has no affinity for this ability.

That doesn't discredit the fact the plate allows for their powers to happen, because quote "A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides....... " . He doesn't need physiology to use the powers


So yes, the Plates have access to everything. Regardless of whether physiology allows it, or not

What is being made note here is that the plates is giving them its powers

Or what about skill swap? Some psychic types have figured out how to do that by manipulating their psychic powers in a particular way. Other psychics with equally or more impressive intelligence will never be able to use it, lacking the talent for it or something of that nature. Arceus has no real indication of having the knowledge nor the talent for it, so why would Arceus get it?

Can you give a reasonable reason why Plates having all their powers cannot do what they can?

Enough with the headcanon. Plus, knowledge was given to reality by Arceus, the very concept of knowledge is an aspect of himself, as all things are. There's nothing anyone can do that he can't

If you want to change the standard feel free to make a thread about giving all creation deities on the wiki copious amounts of abilities, though. I don't think it will by approved as it's extremely speculative and frequently contradicted in fiction (IIRC it was rejected before). And while the standard isn't changed in general, I wouldn't approve of the idea.

I quite remember a Toaru character was mentioned to have all miracles in Bible and was given that power

The same would be applied here, as the plates powers is what is being shared across the multiverse

No one questions Swirls of Root having all the verse power, nor all the charaters on the wiki mentioned to have all the verse powers. Nothing changes here

 

[Vietthai96]

I quite remember a Toaru character was mentioned to have all miracles in Bible and was given that power

You mean Fiamma of the Right????. But i don't remember he having all

No one questions Swirls of Root having all the verse power

Uh, again no, Root is not like Arceus, Root is an abstract, metaphysical force where all magical phenomenon originated from, idk why you continuously bring Root into the discussion when they are not the same

 

[Sniper670]

Lore: Plates has the power of all things

Wiki member: "No no that's not it"

What i don't understand is why this hasn't been closed when I've brought and presented that statement under various languages, especially the Japanese version confirming that the Plates has all powers. Provided context, arguements made by op is that it means Pokémon get 20% boost, which is false


This is what happened (A bit of context) to a Pokémon attempting to use the Plates powers. The Plates gained sentience and dragged himself back to Arceus where it belongs.

 

[Sniper670]

Uh, again no, Root is not like Arceus, Root is an abstract, metaphysical force where all magical phenomenon originated from, idk why you continuously bring Root into the discussion when they are not the same

So Arceus? He's a manifestation of an abstract, Metaphysical being, and everything with Concrete existence ows its existence to his manifestation

The relationship between Arceus and His True form is similar to SOR and Void Shiki.

I'm not even sure why this is still open when there's more evidence than Void Shiki that makes it clear all powers ows itself to Plates

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Mew can’t learn every attack.
And Ditto and Smeargle only learn attacks through specific copy moves, and in the case ditto, with the imposter ability.

and there is still questions?
Why summon these pokemon if Arceus supposedly can just replicate their power or why not transform into them

Because he is proposing a challenge to the Player? He can do it however he sees fit, summoning Pokemon is the most natural and authentic way to do it. Either that or whatever the reason he may have.
But it doesn't matter, at all. Because you're not replying to the arguments, you're just saying
"If he could do X, why did he do Y".
You're not giving reasoning as to why Arceus couldn't do it, you're just nitpicking. Just because one can do something, doesn't mean they are obligated to.

This isn’t what’s up for debate. We already know Arceus has electricity manipulation and can do the general powers of all the typings.

The concept of an example is not that hard to comprehend.

"If God can create a being which can do X, said God should be able to do X as well".
Substitute X for literally anything.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm going to reiterate my stance, in terms of moves/abilities (none of that toonforce shit tho or other such things, that isn't even an actual recognized thing in-verse, is a no-go, it's just funny meme not a real power within context, shit like that is sus because technically speaking, it's only a thing by our standards, not their's. Dark Matter in particular is also something I'm not sure he should be getting shit from due to how DM is portrayed, even in relation to the Gods in that same game. I could see an argument for the original one getting DM shit, but the avatar? Not even remotely), Arceus should have them (The spirit should at the very least 100%, kinda hard not to have them when they're literally you).

But, I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing via any of the arguments shown here (Except actually, lads what are you doing, we're talking about a huge multi-media franchise, a few lines from 6 months ago ain't even the tip of what you can whip out to corroborate your claims, on both ends actually), but rather my own experience and knowledge on the subject just from playing and ******* around with the verse and such media.
But I'm also way to busy dealing with other verses atm to drop shit and do a pokemon deep dive and gather all the sources and showings of Arceus between various mediums that implicate it. Because lmao **** that, if I'm doing anything Pokemon related any time soon, it'd probably just be doing a PD profile.

As such, you don't have to actually count my vote, while I disagree with the proposal, the fact I'm not, atm, willing to actually substantiate it means I'm fine with you discrediting me due to my lack of actually doing anything.
(Though hopefully someone who has more free time can actually make a post detailing everything, because ngl, if I knew nothing about the verse and was going off just the plate descriptions, I wouldn't agree either ).

Also unrelated but only kinda, Mew is a Pokemon that in gameplay, isn't capable of learning every move, such as the infamous Crab Hammer. But in lore it's verbatim said to be able to learn every move in like ever game, yet in game it can't. You gotta realize that there's still some gameplay balancing going on, even if minor (Hell they nerfed Darkrai because Smeargle was abusing Dark Void and made it so Smeargle, despite also being able to learn every move, simply can't learn Dark Void now because in combination with other moves only it could combo together, was getting toxic as all ****). Arceus's capability to learn every move is implicated in that every TM works on him last I checked, much like Mew. It's just that, well, there doesn't exist a TM of every move ever so just like Mew, even though it's canonically able to do any move, it can't actually do so through gameplay. What I'm saying is, there actually is blatant cases of gameplay and lore not coinciding due to game reasons (Not mechanics per say, more like balancing or simply what's implemented for use?).

your being unreasonable

You might be right, but unfortunately minor spelling mistake.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

"If God can create a being which can do X, said God should be able to do X as well".
Substitute X for literally anything.

If God can create a being who can be wrong, then God can be wrong.
If God can create a being who can be limited, then God can be limited.
If God can create a being who can be weak, then God can be weak.

 

[Arceus0x]

It's just that, well, there doesn't exist a TM of every move ever so just like Mew, even though it's canonically able to do any move, it can't actually do so through gameplay. What I'm saying is, there actually is blatant cases of gameplay and lore not coinciding due to game reasons (Not mechanics per say, more like balancing or simply what's implemented for use?).

Technically it can as he has shown to use like 10 moves in the PLA battle and switch to a 4 move palette in a pokemon on pokemon battle.

 

[Arceus0x]

If God can create a being who can be wrong, then God can be wrong.
If God can create a being who can be limited, then God can be limited.
If God can create a being who can be weak, then God can be weak.

the key word is "can", not "has to"

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If God can create a being who can be wrong, then God can be wrong.
If God can create a being who can be limited, then God can be limited.
If God can create a being who can be weak, then God can be weak.

Grand central of false equivalency.

We're comparing power with power. A being's wrongdoings are their own fault, they do have Free Will and individualism after all.

A being's limits are defined by its creator. That just means the creator is capable of doing at least the same thing as the limited being.

Weakness fall in the same category as limits. They are weaker than its creator, then the God is at least as strong as the being.

 

[Chariot190]

Mew can’t learn every attack.

Mew actually can, it's stated time and time again in the lore to be capable of doing exactly that, in almost every game actually.
That's an example of gameplay=/=lore.
While we know, in canon, it's capable of doing so, it doesn't in gameplay because the methods just aren't there. But it's why it can learn every tutor, hm and TM move, to coincide that lore. Basically just because it don't got Crab Hammer doesn't mean it can't use it in lore, because it's basically stated time and time again to.

Technically it can as he has shown to use like 10 moves in the PLA battle and switch to a 4 move palette in a pokemon on pokemon battle.

Well yeah but isn't the argument something like, because Arceus doesn't have say, Blast Burn in it's movepool in gameplay, it can't replicate that in lore?
Kinda like Mew not being able to learn all moves in gameplay yet it's stated like 30+ times to be capable (Probably excluding the big **** off moves like Roar of Time, but you get my point).

 

[Arceus0x]

Well yeah but isn't the argument something like, because Arceus doesn't have say, Blast Burn in it's movepool in gameplay, it can't replicate that in lore?
Kinda like Mew not being able to learn all moves in gameplay yet it's stated like 30+ times to be capable (Probably excluding the big **** off moves like Roar of Time, but you get my point).

it basically is. I am just adding the fact that Arceus has shown to use moves that aren't in his movepool at all even in game

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Mew actually can, it's stated time and time again in the lore to be capable of doing exactly that, in almost every game actually.
That's an example of gameplay=/=lore.
While we know, in canon, it's capable of doing so, it doesn't in gameplay because the methods just aren't there. But it's why it can learn every tutor, hm and TM move, to coincide that lore. Basically just because it don't got Crab Hammer doesn't mean it can't use it in lore, because it's basically stated time and time again to.

Well yeah but isn't the argument something like, because Arceus doesn't have say, Blast Burn in it's movepool in gameplay, it can't replicate that in lore?
Kinda like Mew not being able to learn all moves in gameplay yet it's stated like 30+ times to be capable (Probably excluding the big **** off moves like Roar of Time, but you get my point).

At this point, it just seems like picking and choosing which elements of the franchise you want recorded on the profiles and waving away any anti-feats as being not applicable.

 

[Sniper670]

At this point, it just seems like picking and choosing which elements of the franchise you want recorded on the profiles and waving away any anti-feats as being not applicable.

It's game mechanics. I pointed out there was an episode in the anime that showed how stupid it was to have game mechanics in a "real life" setting

 

[Chariot190]

At this point, it just seems like picking and choosing which elements of the franchise you want recorded on the profiles and waving away any anti-feats as being not applicable.

Why are you replying that to me? I've barely said anything other other than, in regards to Mew, you're objectively wrong. It's stated in just about every game, manga, anime, spin off and more to be capable of learning every move. Thus, you saying it can not, is blatantly false. You'd have to actually cherry pick, and chery pick hard at that, to say Mew can't.

That isn't cherry picking it's me saying "yeah actually it's stated verbatim to be able to do that". Unless you're saying the 100+ statements give or take about Mew being able to learn every move is wrong because Crab Hammer. But I'd have to vehemently disagree with you on that.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It's game mechanics. I pointed out there was an episode in the anime that showed how stupid it was to have game mechanics in a "real life" setting

Abilities are game mechancis as well. I don't see yall your clamoring to remove them form the pokemon profiles.

Immunities and resistances are also for game mechanics. The fairy type was introduced to balance the game. I don't see yall removing them from the profiles either.

Yall pick and choose what to record on the profiles and purposefully don't record things that would limit a pokemon's ability, such as Mew canonically not being able to learn literally every move in multiple games. (because Mew being able to learn most moves isn't enough and too much of a nerf)

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Why are you replying that to me? I've barely said anything other other than, in regards to Mew, you're objectively wrong. It's stated in just about every game, manga, anime, spin off and more to be capable of learning every move. Thus, you saying it can not, is blatantly false. You'd have to actually cherry pick, and chery pick hard at that, to say Mew can't.

That isn't cherry picking it's me saying "yeah actually it's stated verbatim to be able to do that". Unless you're saying the 100+ statements give or take about Mew being able to learn every move is wrong because Crab Hammer. But I'd have to vehemently disagree with you on that.

I didn't mean you, specifically. Sorry. I mean a general you.

But it's not cherry picking. Mew can learn most moves except for a few. Feats >>> statements. And it's not even a matter of the statements being wrong. It's supproters using the statement as a NLF, therefore it must be brought to its most literal conclusion, when it reality there are always exceptions to the rules.

 

[Chariot190]

Abilities are game mechancis as well. I don't see yall your clamoring to remove them form the pokemon profiles.

Immunities and resistances are also for game mechanics. The fairy type was introduced to balance the game. I don't see yall removing them from the profiles either.

My dude, those ain't game mechanics. You're confusing parts of the game, with the mechanics of it.

`Abilities have corroboration and showing to be exactly what they are in other material, as well as dialogue recognizing them as real.
Types are blatantly recognized as existing, the mechanics between them real and literal, and there's dialogue, statements and such confirm it to exist beyond mechanical interactions. And then shown consistently in other material to work the same way bar a few outliers like aim for the horn.

Fairy, again, is recognized, talked about, and directly stated to be a existing thing. A case of a gameplay mechanic type would be the ??? type, a type that doesn't actually exist, but only exists for gameplay things like Struggle or Curse.

Yall pick and choose what to record on the profiles and purposefully don't record things that would limit a pokemon's ability, such as Mew canonically not being able to learn literally every move in multiple games. (because Mew being able to learn most moves isn't enough and too much of a nerf)

Mew canonically CAN learn every move, it's unironically it's selling point. Stated hundreds of times and it's the reason why Mew is capable of learning every TM, HM, and accessible Tutor move without restraint.
Honestly, I don't even get why you're picking on Mew, it's probably the single most consistent and shown throughline in Pokemon media.

 

[Chariot190]

But it's not cherry picking. Mew can learn most moves except for a few. Feats >>> statements. And it's not even a matter of the statements being wrong. It's supproters using the statement as a NLF, therefore it must be brought to its most literal conclusion, when it reality there are always exceptions to the rules.

Feats > Statements, is actually case by case, depends on context and other corroborating material. But usually imo yeah, but you gotta realize, the feats support the claims? It can learn every TM move without fail, every HM without fail, if the Tutor will accept Mew, it can learn everything they have to teach it.
There isn't a single instance of Mew being shown a move, and failing or being incapable of learning it.
Couple that with a hundred or so "it can learn every move" statement, it's probably the single most consistent thing throughout the games beyond just basic "fire beats water" and "pokemon evolve".

Anyway this seems to be edging towards derailment.

 

[Arceus0x]

hundreds is an overstatement but its probably over a dozen since even just the pokedex entries are riddled with it

Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques.
Crystal	Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

 

[Chariot190]

hundreds is an overstatement but its probably over a dozen since even just the pokedex entries are riddled with it

Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques.
Crystal	Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

I was including manga, anime, spinoffs like Mystery Dungeon, TCG, etc (Or did they get split up with that new thread? I haven't been following that). And just character statements like Fuji spouting shit and what not. Probably not a hundred but damn it should be close.

 

[Sniper670]

Abilities are game mechancis as well. I don't see yall your clamoring to remove them form the pokemon profiles.

Abilities are not game mechanics. As proven by anime and manga

Immunities and resistances are also for game mechanics. The fairy type was introduced to balance the game. I don't see yall removing them from the profiles either.

They're not. In anime, Fairy Types are unaffected by Dragon attacks
Ash's Dracovish's Dragon Rush did nothing to Drasna's Mega Altria, as it was fairy type

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Mew canonically CAN learn every move, it's unironically it's selling point. Stated hundreds of times and it's the reason why Mew is capable of learning every TM, HM, and accessible Tutor move without restraint.
Honestly, I don't even get why you're picking on Mew, it's probably the single most consistent and shown throughline in Pokemon media.

I have no problem with that. The problem comes when people take statements, "mew can learn any move" and try to use that as NLF and claim that mew can learn moves that aren't available as TM, HM, or Tutor Moves or haven't shown to be be able to do in any setting.

And then taking that, and then making the claim that Arceus should be able to do the same, when Arceus can't even learn all the moves that Mew can.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Abilities are not game mechanics. As proven by anime and manga

They're not. In anime, Fairy Types are unaffected by Dragon attacks
Ash's Dracovish's Dragon Rush did nothing to Drasna's Mega Altria, as it was fairy type

I can literally post a manga scan that says the plates give pokemon 20% boosts, but you've been claiming that's game mechanics all throughout this thread. Hence picking and choosing.

 

[Chariot190]

I have no problem with that. The problem comes when people take statements, "mew can learn any move" and try to use that as NLF and claim that mew can learn moves that aren't available as TM, HM, or Tutor Moves or haven't shown to be be able to do in any setting.

And then taking that, and then making the claim that Arceus should be able to do the same, when Arceus can't even learn all the moves that Mew can.

I mean, it can? If they made a Crab Hammer TM, Mew would be able to learn it just fine. Mew can learn any move, this is hard fact.
The issue isn't if it can, but rather if it's given a chance to.

And then taking that, and then making the claim that Arceus should be able to do the same, when Arceus can't even learn all the moves that Mew can.

Is that true though? Can Arceus fail to learn any TM, HM or Tutor move it has access to? If he can't learn move #29 from tutor man #40 you might have a point yeah.

 

[Sniper670]

I can literally post a manga scan that says the plates give pokemon 20% boosts, but you've been claiming that's game mechanics all throughout this thread. Hence picking and choosing.

Debunk this. You keep ignoring it

レジェンドプレート
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

Translation :

Legend Plate
A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon.

Can you tell us how you interpret this?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I mean, it can? If they made a Crab Hammer TM, Mew would be able to learn it just fine. Mew can learn any move, this is hard fact.
The issue isn't if it can, but rather if it's given a chance to.

When Mew gets the chance too learn a new move it hasn't learned before, add to the profile. It's as simple as that.

Is that true though? Can Arceus fail to learn any TM, HM or Tutor move it has access to? If he can't learn move #29 from tutor man #40 you might have a point yeah.

Arceus can't learn the Focus Punch TM

Debunk this. You keep ignoring it


Translation :


Can you tell us how you interpret this?

This is literally a reference to Arceus changing his type. We've already mentioned this and you keep bringing it up.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the same reason creation users and power granters can't necessarily use the ability they gave their creations.
There simply is no reason to assume they can in the first place.

That doesn’t answer my question. I asked what logical reason would it make sense for this to be the case and you legit answered “because it is”.

Why can one electric Pokémon not learn all the electric-type Pokémon? Because it requires talent, knowledge, affinity and physiologies the other electric types have and it doesn't.
And the same goes for Arceus. There is no reason to consider it exempt from those.

I…highly doubt I need to say why Electabuzz not being able to learn Bold Beak is the same as

Given, your example is bad. Arceus can of course create basic electricity, having access to the electric plate. But let's look at a more complex case.

Nnnope. With your logic, it only changes the type of Judgement, which are light beams, not electricity.

The current profile assumes the plates grant it access to the regeneration of Cryogonal and Dark Matter. (given, Dark Matter is problematic for much other reasons)
But Cryogonal is sentient ice and regenerates by just freezing the water/mist back together. Arceus isn't sentient ice. It really doesn't have the physiology for this regeneration.
Dark Matter regenerates from negative emotions, being born from hatred, sadness and rage. Arceus isn't. It obviously has no affinity for this ability.

I’m sure I’ve said this before but I don’t buy Arceus getting jack from Dark Matter. Also physiological things Arceus shouldn’t have…obviously. Could he give himself them? Sure. The body itself is already just made for its convenience but it’s obvious it’s not made of ice or ghostly gas atm.

Or what about skill swap? Some psychic types have figured out how to do that by manipulating their psychic powers in a particular way. Other psychics with equally or more impressive intelligence will never be able to use it, lacking the talent for it or something of that nature. Arceus has no real indication of having the knowledge nor the talent for it, so why would Arceus get it?

okay we’re friends so I’m not going to touch on your saying if Arceus lacking knowledge. And instead I’ll just say what I said before. Arceus just creates things that do it, let’s keep saying Skill Swap, on a whim. Why wouldn’t he do it himself? He created the power. It’s not even that he creates an Abra that goes on to evolve into an Alakazam and develop the skill to use Skill Swap. He just creates an Alakazam that immediately can use Skill Swap. You haven’t given me a logical reason why he wouldn’t be able to use the technique himself.

If you want to change the standard feel free to make a thread about giving all creation deities on the wiki copious amounts of abilities, though. I don't think it will by approved as it's extremely speculative and frequently contradicted in fiction (IIRC it was rejected before). And while the standard isn't changed in general, I wouldn't approve of the idea.

You know darn well I wouldn’t do that. Not even because I necessarily disagree but because I’m barely even here anymore. Heck I’m on this thread due to a whim.

 

[Sniper670]

This is literally a reference to Arceus changing his type. We've already mentioned this and you keep bringing it up.

Yes. Why do you think he changes type? To use its powers

This is supporting the fact its mentioned on the Plates that Plates determines the abilities of Pokémon


Also via the manga and anime, where Arceus was able to do things beyond the Typing of his. As if his ability to nullify all attacks isn't part of those things outside his moveset in games

 

[Chariot190]

When Mew gets the chance too learn a new move it hasn't learned before, add to the profile. It's as simple as that.

Eh I'm not so sure lad, you'd have to be discrediting way to many statements to go with that, doubly so because it has the genetic memory of everything.

Arceus can't learn the Focus Punch TM

This is probably your best piece of evidence yet, that is problematic.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I have no problem with that. The problem comes when people take statements, "mew can learn any move" and try to use that as NLF and claim that mew can learn moves that aren't available as TM, HM, or Tutor Moves or haven't shown to be be able to do in any setting.

There’s a lot I can say but I’ll limit it to “this isn’t what NLF means”

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

There’s a lot I can say but I’ll limit it to “this isn’t what NLF means”

Yes it does. Taking the phrase, “Mew can learn any ability” and taking it to say that Mew can learn every moveset in pokemon, even the ones that aren’t teachable is a No limits Fallacy.

And then saying that because Mew can learn any move, including the ones that can’t be taught, then arceus should be able to do it, even though there are teachable moves that Arceus cannot learn.

 

[Arceus0x]

Mew is literally stated to have the DNA of all pokemon and thus has all the moves. What are you on about?

 

[Chariot190]

Yes it does. Taking the phrase, “Mew can learn any ability” and taking it to say that Mew can learn every moveset in pokemon, even the ones that aren’t teachable is a No limits Fallacy.

?
No, it'd be NLF if you took Mew to say it can learn every move, and then say it could copy like Superman's super breathe, or learn things that aren't Pokemon moves? It learning every Pokemon move isn't a NLF, it's just what it do. It becomes one when you say and stretch that line to cover things that aren't Pokemon moves.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

?
No, it'd be NLF if you took Mew to say it can learn every move, and then say it could copy like Superman's super breathe, or learn things that aren't Pokemon moves? It learning every Pokemon move isn't a NLF, it's just what it do. It becomes one when you say and stretch that line to cover things that aren't Pokemon moves.

Can Mew learn moves that can't be taught?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

And this is becoming derailed.

The thing about Mew is, that people brought it up to say that Arceus should be able to do what Mew can do, (learn any move) and therefore should have access to all moves, but regardless, Arceus can't even do what Mew can do.