Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Hasty12345]

LuckyFun isn't a supporter. Plus, "The Original One is nowhere at all" (which is likely referring to the fact His realm resides outside of reality) is quite literally irrelevant, and does not contradict the first quote.

It changes the entire context of what the statement is talking about.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It’s what the source material said. Arceus buried the plates.

Not necessarily for the purpose of giving Pokemon the types, no.

Yet, pokemon with types existed before them.

There is no evidence of this.

They are fragments of the universe, and the giants imbued their power into them, so they are not solely from Arceus

They are fragments from Arceus Himself.
The Giants (which are AMBIGUOUS mind you) imbued their power into a singular plate. Plus, the Creation Trio are likely the giants, it's just Arceus' own creations.

There is no evidence for this.

And?
It's a dull point, we objectively do not know if they had any types of if they got them from the plates.
Can you prove they had the types they have today?

All I did was complete the quote. Relax.

The quote is literally a paradox. The second statement contradicts the first one. Arceus’s realm is still a place and isn’t nowheere.

"Place" specifies a position in space. It isn't. It's quite literally an extradimensional realm. It's nowhere in the context of reality.
Still, both are true. Omnipresence is paradoxical.

It changes the entire context of what the statement is talking about.

It does not. These are two affirmations, both are true.

 

[Moritzva]

Those who accept this topic should not comment on pokemon again. search the verse

I will immediately report the next person to say anything like this. This is like, the tenth time I've had to say this exclusively on Pokemon threads.

 

[Everything12]

The quote is literally a paradox. The second statement contradicts the first one. Arceus’s realm is still a place and isn’t nowheere.

It changes the entire context of what the statement is talking about.

It refers to the fact that Arceus' Realm is beyond space and time, outside the rest of everything, beyond even the likes of the Distortion World.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not reading this entire list but this is the same dude who just creates Pokémon to fight you in PLA, including manmade ones. The idea that Arceus can’t do the thing that Mew and freaking Smeargle can do is absurd.

Edit: a friend recommended that I specify that I’m referring to the Eternal Battle Reverie when I say that Arceus creates mons to fight you, as opposed to the spatial distortions.

 

[Moritzva]

Not reading this entire list but this is the same dude who just creates Pokémon to fight you in PLA, including manmade ones. The idea that Arceus can’t do the thing that Mew and freaking Smeargle can do is absurd.

I talked to Cal and forced him at gunpoint to clarify that he's referring to the Eternal Battle Reverie, which is actually a pretty good argument that doesn't rely on interpreting the plates.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

"Place" specifies a position in space. It isn't. It's quite literally an extradimensional realm. It's nowhere in the context of reality.
Still, both are true. Omnipresence is paradoxical.

I am speaking plainly. If its where Arceus resides in, we can call it a place. I am not going to speak in vs tongues to try to preserve the integrity of your tier. You know what I am talking about.

I al not coming after Arceus’s omnipresence or his precious low 1-C

Not reading this entire list but this is the same dude who just creates Pokémon to fight you in PLA, including manmade ones. The idea that Arceus can’t do the thing that Mew and freaking Smeargle can do is absurd.

Edit: a friend recommended that I specify that I’m referring to the Eternal Battle Reverie when I say that Arceus creates mons to fight you, as opposed to the spatial distortions.

Because Arceus can summon or create Pokemon, that means he actively has all the pokemon abilities despite only being shown to have his own (not counting the three in conquest)?

This thread was created because on the profile the plates are giving Arceus passives, and powers that he is not shown to have.

it isn’t enough proof.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I am speaking plainly. If its where Arceus resides in, we can call it a place. I am not going to speak in vs tongues to try to preserve the integrity of your tier. You know what I am talking about.

I al not coming after Arceus’s omnipresence or his precious low 1-C

This is goofy.
"Vs tongue"? Brother, it's physics.
A realm that does not exist in space is not a "place". And again, that doesn't matter.

Do not push your luck with this red herring. "The Original One is in all things" is enough evidence for His True Form scaling to everyone.

 

[Sniper670]

Because Arceus can summon or create Pokemon, that means he actively has all the pokemon abilities despite only being shown to have his own (not counting the three in conquest)?

It's supporting evidence among the many we've presented herr

You've done nothing so far by presenting headcanon and interpreting things however you like

This thread was created because on the profile the plates are giving Arceus passives, and powers that he is not shown to have.

On account of the Plates which is the powers that is shared to Pokémon

it isn’t enough proof.

Because you say so. I showed you the Japanese version explicitly mentioning the plates determines the abilities of Pokémon, amongst supporting evidence like eternal battle reverie but it isn't enough??

Yeah no. I'm not sure why this is still going on after the Japanese version fully confirmed what they meant

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This is goofy.
"Vs tongue"? Brother, it's physics.
A realm that does not exist in space is not a "place". And again, that doesn't matter.

If you want me to bring in Physics, by all means we can have that conversation Because you can still measure the distance between the player and Arceus, and attacks during the battle still have to travel from point A to point B, and the sequence of events are still going in the order of cause and effect, meaning you can measure the rate of change aka, time.

or you can simply not berate for calling Arceus’s location a place.

Do not push your luck with this red herring. "The Original One is in all things" is enough evidence for His True Form scaling to everyone.

Arceus is in all things and Arceus possess every pokemon ability concurrently are two different statements that cannot be interchanged so its silly to act like one informs the other.

 

[Sniper670]

Electric Plate

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of electricity. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of the Electric type.

1. Japanese (Katana)
生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられる
Pokémon born with the power of the plate.

2. Japanese Hiragana
うまれてくる　ポケモン プレートの　ちから　わけあたえられる
そのもの

The ability of an unborn Pokémon plate to determine
what it is

How do you interpret this

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because Arceus can summon or create Pokemon, that means he actively has all the pokemon abilities despite only being shown to have his own (not counting the three in conquest)?

Yes.

This thread was created because on the profile the plates are giving Arceus passives, and powers that he is not shown to have.

This has nothing to do with plates. If anything I agree with you that the plate stuff is mid when it comes to proof.

it isn’t enough proof.

Ngl dude really sounds like you have to be spoonfed information verbatim for you to accept it. God of monsters has been shown to create monsters for the sole purpose of them using monster powers as a mere test. Much weaker less complex monsters can use all monster powers, two of them not even being special (Ditto and Smeargle). Reasonably, god of monsters should be able to use all monster powers if he’s using the same energy to make monsters to use monster powers. It’s cutting out the middle man.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If you want me to bring in Physics, by all means we can have that conversation Because you can still measure the distance between the player and Arceus, and attacks during the battle still have to travel from point A to point B, and the sequence of events are still going in the order of cause and effect, meaning you can measure the rate of change aka, time.

or you can simply not berate for calling Arceus’s location a place.

It's not somewhere in space, nor does it contain time, this was stated directly by Arceus, what you say is irrelevant. If the human can interpret this, it's likely because Arceus allowed them to.

Arceus is in all things and Arceus possess every pokemon ability concurrently are two different statements that cannot be interchanged so its silly to act like one informs the other.

It is, yes.
If all things are just extensions of Arceus Himself, then all capabilities do scale to Him. Plain and simple. Not only was His power responsible for all of these abilities and reality to even be feasible for Pokemon in the first place, but it's also heavily implied that everything in the universe is just a piece of Arceus' mind/heart.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Ngl dude really sounds like you have to be spoonfed information verbatim for you to accept it. God of monsters has been shown to create monsters for the sole purpose of them using monster powers as a mere test. Much weaker less complex monsters can use all monster powers, two of them not even being special (Ditto and Smeargle). Reasonably, god of monsters should be able to use all monster powers if he’s using the same energy to make monsters to use monster powers. It’s cutting out the middle man.

Ditto and Smeargle do not posses multiple abilities. There is no pokemon who is rocking Speed boost, shield dust, wonder guard, flame body, etc. all at the same time.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ditto and Smeargle do not posses multiple abilities. There is no pokemon who is rocking Speed boost, shield dust, wonder guard, flame body, etc. all at the same time.

I…don’t think I said anything about abilities? I was exclusively talking about moves.
Even still, Ditto and Mew can use any ability individually. And again, the main point of my argument remains. There’s zero reason Arceus can’t just do by himself what he does by creating mons.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I…don’t think I said anything about abilities? I was exclusively talking about moves.
Even still, Ditto and Mew can use any ability individually. And again, the main point of my argument remains. There’s zero reason Arceus can’t just do by himself what he does by creating mons.

did you read my OP?

this is about users claiming on the profile that because of the plates Arceus has all the pokemon abilities (speedboost, clear body etc.) at the same time and has the powers of all non-pokemon.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

did you read my OP?

this is about users claiming on the profile that because of the plates Arceus has all the pokemon abilities (speedboost, clear body etc.) at the same time and has the powers of all non-pokemon.

Cal's point is this justification isn't needed, the simple fact Arceus' sheer power can create lesser beings whose power are capable of doing things is enough for scaling.
Literally all Pokémon powers descend directly from the power of Arceus. Using Game Mechanics such as "Limited to 4 moves", or "one ability per mon" when those are blatantly done for balancing competitive play is very disingenuous. Adding a 5th move to the mix would be enough to ruin everything.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Non-Pokémon such as?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Non-Pokémon such as?

Dark matter and humans

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Humans are one thing given he created those monkeys that are probably Pokémon adjacent to begin with, but there’s absolutely no reason he should have things from Dark Matter.

 

[Sniper670]

Alright it's been a bit, so i'll add up agrees and disagrees (bolded means a member of staff)

Agrees: 7 Regular + 2 Staff (@Iamunanimousinthat, @Hasty12345, @Moritzva, @Rikimarox2, @InfiniteDay, @Paul_Frank, @Comicgyal, @DontTalkDT, @JoshSSJGod)

Disagrees: 12 Regular + 1 staff (@Yemma670, @Arceus0x, @Chariot190, @Thelastmlg, @The_Pink_God, @JustANormalPerson01, @hajime, @Robot972, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Pikaman, @GodlyCharmander, @Luckyfan, @The_real_cal_howard

Inconclusive/No Opinion: 1 Staff (@Everything12, Agrees with True Form Arceus having everything), @Purgy(fine with Possibly), @ Zencha9(Agree with True Form Having it), @Vietthai96,

I'm still waiting for DT reply, so his stance is not solid.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Cal's point is this justification isn't needed, the simple fact Arceus' sheer power can create lesser beings whose power are capable of doing things is enough for scaling.
Literally all Pokémon powers descend directly from the power of Arceus. Using Game Mechanics such as "Limited to 4 moves", or "one ability per mon" when those are blatantly done for balancing competitive play is very disingenuous. Adding a 5th move to the mix would be enough to ruin everything.

Good thing my argument is simply, Arceus doesn’t get abilities he’s never shown to have or stated to have. And that fan conjecture of what he should have, doesn’t cut it.

 

[Sniper670]

Humans are one thing given he created those monkeys that are probably Pokémon adjacent to begin with, but there’s absolutely no reason he should have things from Dark Matter.

The Plate has the essence of all creation. Dark Matter is not exempt, as he's born from the negative emotions of Pokémon

 

[Sniper670]

Good thing my argument is simply, Arceus doesn’t get abilities he’s never shown to have or stated to have. And that fan conjecture of what he should have, doesn’t cut it.

You haven't address the points I made earlier

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You haven't address the points I made earlier

Which ones?

 

[Sniper670]

Electric Plate



How do you interpret this

^^^

 

[Sniper670]

レジェンドプレート
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

Translation :

Legend Plate
A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

^^^

That its talking about arceus.

the Zap plate has a completely different engraving from what you quoted. Where is that phrase from exactly?

 

[Sniper670]

Zap Plate - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Also in PLA

 

[hajime]

Members of this wiki, whether they are supporters or non supporters of a verse have every right to comment on a Content Revision Thread. If they think the OP makes more sense then that's their opinion. You have no right to say who can't comment so please refraim from doing so and simply state that you disagree with the OP and post reasons if you want and be done with it. Also, chill out with all the caps, it's not that serious.


Your opinion matters so long as you aren't disagree/agreeing for bias or nonsensical reasons

you're being silly, no one should comment on something they don't know

Nobody should comment on something they don't know. If you're seriously advocating this, you're either anti-pokemon or you think god can't even make cars.

 

[hajime]

I also found out that dt has no pokemon knowledge.

 

[Vietthai96]

Stop your behavior @hajime , this kind of attitude do not help your case or Pokemon and the verse supporters as a whole

 

[GodlyCharmander]

While I disagree with the notion that people who don't have knowledge on a verse should be prohibited from commenting, I do agree that their stance shouldn't be nearly as valuable as someone who is an expert. We do have a whole page dedicated to verse experts after all.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

While I disagree with the notion that people who don't have knowledge on a verse should be prohibited from commenting, I do agree that their stance shouldn't be nearly as valuable as someone who is an expert. We do have a whole page dedicated to verse experts after all.

This is a CRT thread, by nature it's going to be against what is already established on the profiles.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

This is a CRT thread, by nature it's going to be against what is already established on the profiles.

This has quite literally nothing to do with what I said.

Expert on the verse /=/ Agree with the current profiles

It works for us both, experts that agree with you should be prioritized, and the ones who disagree should be as well. It was just a little comment.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

you're being silly, no one should comment on something they don't know

Nobody should comment on something they don't know. If you're seriously advocating this, you're either anti-pokemon or you think god can't even make cars.

I also found out that dt has no pokemon knowledge.

I'm not being silly, your being unreasonable. Everyone has a right to comment period and i never said "if they have no knowledge", I said regardless of if their a supporter or non supporter, which are different, since I don't need to support a verse to have knowledge on it. Also, your argument is ignorant, someone not agreeing with Arceus not having everything does not make them anti-pokemon, that's stupid.

Also DT not knowing the full scope of Pokemon doesn't mean he can't ask questions or bring up an issue. I'm going to give you a warning, if you keep being unreasonable and derailing, I'm goimg to report you.

While I disagree with the notion that people who don't have knowledge on a verse should be prohibited from commenting, I do agree that their stance shouldn't be nearly as valuable as someone who is an expert. We do have a whole page dedicated to verse experts after all.

There stance is not as valuable when the exparts can provide solid counters. It's about what one cam prove they have the more logical reasoning regardless of if they are an expart or not. Heck, I can safely say that I am the most knowledgeable on Danny Phantom on this site but that hasn't stopped others who have little to no knowledge being able to provide valid arguments against several of the things I suggested. Don't get me wrong though, being an expart is a + so I don't fully disagree with your point and understand what youe saying.

Regardless. This whole "they have no knowledge" or "their anti-pokemon" stuff needs to stop. All y'all need to do is post your arguments and wait for more people to comment. This extra stuff is unnecessary so drop it (this is referring to those who are doing what I mentioned) the rest of you guys are fine.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not reading this entire list but this is the same dude who just creates Pokémon to fight you in PLA, including manmade ones. The idea that Arceus can’t do the thing that Mew and freaking Smeargle can do is absurd.

Edit: a friend recommended that I specify that I’m referring to the Eternal Battle Reverie when I say that Arceus creates mons to fight you, as opposed to the spatial distortions.

By that reasoning every creator entity should have the powers of all their creations. We definitely don't do that.
Given, what is fair to argue is that he could always create a Pokémon and have that Pokémon use the ability (provided Arceus knows about the fact that the Pokémon has the ability). But that's an important difference.

 

[Sniper670]

Translation :

I'm bumping this

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

By that reasoning every creator entity should have the powers of all their creations. We definitely don't do that.

That is entirely on us and probably a dumb decision on us. Even still there are case by case context. Another verse could’ve gotten their powers through external means like evolution so their god’s not responsible for it, or they make it incredibly apparent that the god can’t do what their creations can a la SMT. This is not either case. If god can create a rat that can shoot electricity, there’s no logical reason god can’t just create that electricity itself. Like no seriously, give me a good reason why that would make sense, that Arceus wouldn’t be able to do that. I’m genuinely asking without rhetoric or sarcasm (you know me well enough to know that I wouldn’t be snarky to ya). Especially when, again, Pokemon so far down on the chain of scale like Mew or even worse, Smeargle and Ditto, can do so no problem.

 

[hajime]

I'm not being silly, your being unreasonable. Everyone has a right to comment period and i never said "if they have no knowledge", I said regardless of if their a supporter or non supporter, which are different, since I don't need to support a verse to have knowledge on it. Also, your argument is ignorant, someone not agreeing with Arceus not having everything does not make them anti-pokemon, that's stupid.

Also DT not knowing the full scope of Pokemon doesn't mean he can't ask questions or bring up an issue. I'm going to give you a warning, if you keep being unreasonable and derailing, I'm goimg to report you.


There stance is not as valuable when the exparts can provide solid counters. It's about what one cam prove they have the more logical reasoning regardless of if they are an expart or not. Heck, I can safely say that I am the most knowledgeable on Danny Phantom on this site but that hasn't stopped others who have little to no knowledge being able to provide valid arguments against several of the things I suggested. Don't get me wrong though, being an expart is a + so I don't fully disagree with your point and understand what youe saying.

Regardless. This whole "they have no knowledge" or "their anti-pokemon" stuff needs to stop. All y'all need to do is post your arguments and wait for more people to comment. This extra stuff is unnecessary so drop it (this is referring to those who are doing what I mentioned) the rest of you guys are fine.

I'm telling you to research Pokemon verses, I'm not talking about the layering system, I'm talking about pokemon. I didn't derail. Those who don't know Pokemon shouldn't do pokemon tiering