Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Thelastmlg]

Continuing to say "The OP has been debunked!" when the argument seems to fundamentally come down to "Do we believe that 'share power' means 'give Pokemon all of their movies and abilities and whatnot'", to which plenty of people think "no".

The evidence "debunking" the OP seems quite weak and relies on overly favorable, stretching interpretation imo.

Plenty of people saying "i think the evidence is weak" with no reasoning, AKA a glorified FRA, is basically 0

Reasoning being? We have also debunked most of it due to using gameplay mechanics (our page literally calls it fallacious) and a vague, untouched statement, so yeah it is mostly debunked anyway

 

[Moritzva]

Stretching??

The only one stretching here is op. And you out here pretending "Evidence is weak" while we have tbe scans to prove otherwise

I smell bias fr

Yemma, once more, you have been told to stay on-topic and to stop rampantly accusing anyone who disagrees with you of either being biased or not reading. Do it again and I will take it to RVT. You can disagree with me and be civil about it.

Plenty of people saying "i think the evidence is weak" with no reasoning, AKA a glorified FRA, is basically 0

Reasoning being? We have also debunked most of it due to using gameplay mechanics (our page literally calls it fallacious) and a vague, untouched statement, so yeah it is mostly debunked anyway

The OP's arguments sufficiently stand with reasonable arguments and the 'evidence' provided has been debated thoroughly. It hasn't been debunked, you just disagree. There's a difference.

Please, continue actually debating.

 

[Sniper670]

I keep asking you for the context of this quote but you haven't given it to me. Where is it from and who says it?

We already know that Pokemon can use the power of the plates to boost their powers. This has been shown in the games, anime, and manga.

That's not what the lore says. And that's game mechanics.

The Rightful bearer of a Plate draws from it.

In fact, the plates mentions it allows you to use the powers of the plates, referencing Arceus ability to assimilate and use the powers inside, not boost attacks. Do note that it is this plate that the multiverse derives its powers from

The idea that "all pokemon get their powers and abilities from the plates" is not synonymous with the power of the plate are shared among pokemon when we know that pokemon can use the power of the plates to boost their attacks.

That's not what the Plate say.. Japanese versions says the Plates determines the abilities of the Pokémon to be born. So again, you're wrong

You're also wrong by the fact the the rightful bearers refers to just one Pokémon, Arceus, not all Pokémon

And your interpretation of that quote is wrong because

A. The creation trio and lake Trio, and the Giants existed before the plates and all have their own powers. The trios themselves already have their typings so they did not get them from the plates.

Again. Arceus put all his powers into plates. So the statement about the plates holding the essence of all creation is solid

That's not true. Pokemon can draw power from the plates to boost their attack.

Again. Stop using Game mechanics here.

Anime and Manga makes it clear ONLY Arceus can use its powers.

The last time Heatran used it, he got corrupted and the Plates took control over him

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This is useless. I keep asking you to share with me the context of that quote and where is it from and you keep dodging the question.
Not to mention you're not engaging in any of my arguments you just refer to them as headcannon or game mechanics as if that's enough to debunk anything I said.

And again I shall repeat:

If all pokemon, human, and beings in the pokemon franchise get their powers from the plates, why is it that the Giants, Creation Trio, and Lake Trio have their powers before the plates were created?

 

[Chariot190]

Aren't the Creation Trio and Lake Trio just aspects of Arceus as well?

 

[Comicgyal]

The context of that quote, since it’s being used for evidence, needs to be shown. Or that entire point can be discarded.

 

[Sniper670]

This is useless. I keep asking you to share with me the context of that quote and where is it from and you keep dodging the question.
Not to mention you're not engaging in any of my arguments you just refer to them as headcannon or game mechanics as if that's enough to debunk anything I said.

It's From Pokémon Legends Arceus

Here you go. Text dump of all the games. You can look through all of it

And again I shall repeat:

If all pokemon, human, and beings in the pokemon franchise get their powers from the plates, why is it that the Giants, Creation Trio, and Lake Trio have their powers before the plates were created?

Because Quote

"The Being poured the remains of his power into stone and buried it deep"

So in conclusion , the Plates captures the very essence of all things, including CT. As the Plates say

Plus, I'll keep repeating this, refrain from using the Giants as we do not know what they are

 

[Sniper670]

The context of that quote, since it’s being used for evidence, needs to be shown. Or that entire point can be discarded.

Plate - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

The evidence is written on the Plates themselves

 

[Comicgyal]

It's From Pokémon Legends Arceus

Here you go. Text dump of all the games. You can look through all of it

Thats not how things work. You can’t link a bunch of Japanese files, and tell someone to find it. You have to give us the excerpt.

 

[Comicgyal]

Plate - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

The evidence is written on the Plates themselves

Linking a wiki doesn’t do you any justice, because the first paragraph says:

“They boost the power of the holder's moves of the corresponding type, and change Arceus and its signature move Judgment to that type.”

Which actually goes against your entire point.

 

[Sniper670]

Thats not how things work. You can’t link a bunch of Japanese files, and tell someone to find it. You have to give us the excerpt.

Fine.

プレートに与えた力 倒した巨人たちの力
プレート握りしもの さまざまに変化し力ふるう
荒ぶる分身 怒りの雷を放つ
生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられる
そのもの　時間　空間の２匹 分身として世に放つ
世界の裏側　乱れるとき 時空の裂け目　生じる
世界の裏側　時間 空間の理　異なる
宇宙　生まれしとき その欠片　プレートとする
そのものの　力の欠片 珠にこめて　大地に埋める
宇宙　生まれる前 そのもの　独り　呼吸する
宇宙　生まれた場所 そのもの　始まりの場所
そのもの　プレートの力 集めし　笛の音色を聴く
そのものの　あらぶる　ぶんしん 世界の裏側を与えられる
そのもの　時間　空間を　つなぐ ３匹の　ポケモンをも生みだす
２匹に物　３匹に心 祈り　生ませ　世界　形づくる
世界の裏側に　満ちるもの 息吹くものの　姿を変える
そのもの　あらゆるところに　いる そのもの　あらゆるところに　いない
３匹のポケモンの力 時間　空間を　しばし止める
そのもの　あらゆる　宇宙で ポケモンと　人を　みる

 

[Sniper670]

Linking a wiki doesn’t do you any justice, because the first paragraph says:

“They boost the power of the holder's moves of the corresponding type, and change Arceus and its signature move Judgment to that type.”

Which actually goes against your entire point.

It doesn't tho. That quote is referring to Arceus himself

Plus the second part about giving 20% to Pokémon is Game mechanics, as shown by anime and manga

In anime, Heatran simply getting hit by the energy of the plates corrupted him so NO, only the rightful bearer of the Plates, in this case Arceus, can draw from the power it holds

 

[Comicgyal]

It doesn't tho. That quote is referring to Arceus himself

Plus the second part about giving 20% to Pokémon is Game mechanics, as shown by anime and manga

In anime, Heatran simply getting hit by the energy of the plates corrupted him so NO, only the rightful bearer of the Plates, in this case Arceus, can draw from the power it holds

That doesn’t matter, the description says that it changes his type to whatever type the plate is. That doesn’t support the argument that he can use every ability, from every Pokémon.

It’s fine if he draws power from the plates, that much is obvious. But the plates don’t give him every single ability.

 

[Sniper670]

That doesn’t matter, the description says that it changes his type to whatever type the plate is. That doesn’t support the argument that he can use every ability, from every Pokémon.

And allows him to use the powers of that type yes.

The Plates is the Essence and it's the Plates powers that is shared across the multiverse so in the end, the Plates is going to get his own powers, which will still be given to Arceus as its wielder

It’s fine if he draws power from the plates, that much is obvious. But the plates don’t give him every single ability.

Explained above.

Plus the Japanese Translation makes that explicitly clear that their abilities are determined by plates

 

[Thelastmlg]

The lake and creation trio are direct aspects of arceus just like the plates are and they have typings, the japanese version even calls them alteregos of areus as the god blog pointed out, they are not an argument against the plates, they are basically living plates.

Stop using the giants, ffs, they prove nor disprove nothing, they are nothing and even if they were, they are now part of arceus alongside the whole verse as we know it

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It's From Pokémon Legends Arceus

Here you go. Text dump of all the games. You can look through all of it

Fine.

プレートに与えた力 倒した巨人たちの力
プレート握りしもの さまざまに変化し力ふるう
荒ぶる分身 怒りの雷を放つ
生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられる
そのもの　時間　空間の２匹 分身として世に放つ
世界の裏側　乱れるとき 時空の裂け目　生じる
世界の裏側　時間 空間の理　異なる
宇宙　生まれしとき その欠片　プレートとする
そのものの　力の欠片 珠にこめて　大地に埋める
宇宙　生まれる前 そのもの　独り　呼吸する
宇宙　生まれた場所 そのもの　始まりの場所
そのもの　プレートの力 集めし　笛の音色を聴く
そのものの　あらぶる　ぶんしん 世界の裏側を与えられる
そのもの　時間　空間を　つなぐ ３匹の　ポケモンをも生みだす
２匹に物　３匹に心 祈り　生ませ　世界　形づくる
世界の裏側に　満ちるもの 息吹くものの　姿を変える
そのもの　あらゆるところに　いる そのもの　あらゆるところに　いない
３匹のポケモンの力 時間　空間を　しばし止める
そのもの　あらゆる　宇宙で ポケモンと　人を　みる

This is ridiculous. If you cannot tell me where exactly in the game the quote is from, who says it and when, then I'm disregarding it.

So in conclusion , the Plates captures the very essence of all things, including CT. As the Plates say

Funny that quote doesn't say, "Arceus gave the giants, creation trio, and lake trio thier powers, abilities, and movesets, and then put that power in the plates so that all beings in the franchise can be bestowed thier powers, ablities, and movesets from the plate".

Stop using the giants, ffs, they prove nor disprove nothing, they are nothing and even if they were, they are no part of arceus ongside the whole verse as we know it

Plus, I'll keep repeating this, refrain from using the Giants as we do not know what they are

NO. I'm using them in my argument. Come up with a counter argument or concede.

The lake and creation trio are direct aspects of arceus just like the plates

The plates are not direct aspects of Arceus as they were made from the universe and were imbued with the power of the giants who are NOT arceus. Arceus had to place his power inside them.

 

[Comicgyal]

And allows him to use the powers of that type yes.

The Plates is the Essence and it's the Plates powers that is shared across the multiverse so in the end, the Plates is going to get his own powers, which will still be given to Arceus as its wielder

I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Just because the plates are shared across the multiverse, doesn’t mean they contain the abilities for every single Pokémon?

The plates powerboost regular Pokémon, and change Arceus’ type when he uses Judgment. That’s what they’re confirmed to be capable of — anything more is conjecture and hypothesis.

Explained above.

Plus the Japanese Translation makes that explicitly clear that their abilities are determined by plates

That’s not clear by the statement. You’re trying to link two entirely different things, which is barely connected.

The plates give Pokémon their power, that can be interpreted as their typing (since the plates change Arceus’ type. Or it’s a power boost, which is explicitly said.)

 

[Sniper670]

This is ridiculous. If you cannot tell me where exactly in the game the quote is from, who says it and when, then I'm disregarding it.

They're written on the Plates. So it's validity is solid

Funny that quote doesn't say, "Arceus gave the giants, creation trio, and lake trio thier powers, abilities, and movesets, and then put that power in the plates so that all beings in the franchise can be bestowed thier powers, ablities, and movesets from the plate".

Again. The CT are aspects of Arceus, so what's your point.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

They're written on the Plates. So it's validity is solid

Which plates?

Again. The CT are aspects of Arceus, so what's your point.

That there is no evidence that non-aspects of Arceus get their powers form the plates. The only evidence that pokemon can be boosted by the plates.

 

[Sniper670]

I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Just because the plates are shared across the multiverse, doesn’t mean they contain the abilities for every single Pokémon?

The plates powerboost regular Pokémon, and change Arceus’ type when he uses Judgment. That’s what they’re confirmed to be capable of — anything more is conjecture and hypothesis.

That's false, game mechanics and I've proven it.
1. In anime, the Plates corrupted Heatran
2. In manga, it's basically useless until Arceus himself makes an appearance
3. Lore from games makes it clear "The rightful bearer of a Plate.... " that's Arceus

That’s not clear by the statement. You’re trying to link two entirely different things, which is barely connected.

It's from the engraving on the plates. They're connected and not seperate

The plates give Pokémon their power, that can be interpreted as their typing (since the plates change Arceus’ type. Or it’s a power boost, which is explicitly said.)

Game mechanics, as proven earlier.

It cannot be interpreted in any other way once you bring the Japanese translation into this, the context, and in addition to showings in anime and manga

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Game Mechanics isn't an argument.

 

[Sniper670]

Which plates?

The engravings are written on the Plates. The Japanese text i brought here has all the engravings

That there is no evidence that non-aspects of Arceus get their powers form the plates. The only evidence that pokemon can be boosted by the plates.

What? The Plates has the Essence of all things, so your argument there is null. The last sentence is game mechanics and I've explained it already. Supported by anime and manga

 

[Sniper670]

Game Mechanics isn't an argument.

It is, when you take into Account the lore

In fact the plate booting 20% isn't even a thing noted by anyone in the game, outside of game mechanics . No one says "Oh these plates will give you 20% boost in the type...." no. Because from lore there's only ONE rightful bearer, and that's Arceus

 

[Comicgyal]

That's false, game mechanics and I've proven it.
1. In anime, the Plates corrupted Heatran
2. In manga, it's basically useless until Arceus himself makes an appearance
3. Lore from games makes it clear "The rightful bearer of a Plate.... " that's Arceus

1. Corrupting Heatran is a non-factor, as that has nothing to do with giving Pokémon all the abilities they use.
2. What were useless, the plates?
3. Sure, he may be the rightful bearer. Doesn’t mean they have every ability. Just means he created them, or they’re supposed to be used by him. Which would make sense, since it changes his typing.

Game mechanics, as proven earlier.

It cannot be interpreted in any other way once you bring the Japanese translation into this, the context, and in addition to showings in anime and manga

What are you saying is game mechanics? I’m just using the entry from the wiki article you linked me.

 

[Sniper670]

1. Corrupting Heatran is a non-factor, as that has nothing to do with giving Pokémon all the abilities they use.

That's what happened. He hit the Plates with fire and it reflected onto him and corrupted him

So yes, no one but Arceus can absorb and use the plates

2. What were useless, the plates?
3. Sure, he may be the rightful bearer. Doesn’t mean they have every ability. Just means he created them, or they’re supposed to be used by him. Which would make sense, since it changes his typing.

It does, when the Japanese version says the Plates determines the abilities of Pokémon, Giant powers being in the plates, and Arceus himself putting his powers inside it.

In the end the Plates are fragments of Arceus and he deserves to keep all powers of the verse.

What are you saying is game mechanics? I’m just using the entry from the wiki article you linked me.

Wiki vs Lore+Anime+Manga. That's besides the fact no one in game made mention, it's, irrelevant outside of game mechanics because the rightful bearer is Arceus

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The engravings are written on the Plates. The Japanese text i brought here has all the engravings

Which plate is the engraving on?

What? The Plates has the Essence of all things, so your argument there is null. The last sentence is game mechanics and I've explained it already. Supported by anime and manga

The plates having the essence of all creation is a reference to the plates being made from the shards of the universe.

And even if the Plates has the essence of all things in the way you describe, that in no way states that everyone in the franchise gets their powers from the plates.

And game mechanics is not an argument. Come up with a real argument.

 

[Sniper670]

Which plate is the engraving on?

All the Plates

The plates having the essence of all creation is a reference to the plates being made from the shards of the universe.

Nope. That was in reference to the Legend Plate, which has all Typings in one.

And even if the Plates has the essence of all things in the way you describe, that in no way states that everyone in the franchise gets their powers from the plates.

That means nothing without supporting evidence. One being it being mentioned the Plates determines the abilities of Pokémon

And game mechanics is not an argument. Come up with a real argument.

I did.

 

[DontTalkDT]

A question: I have seen some quotes in this thread that one could maybe interpret to say that all Pokémon draw upon power given by the plates.
Let's assume that's true for a moment. (which it isn't necessarily)
Why does that mean that Arceus can do everything the Pokémon can?
A magician with enough mana (and the right affinities) for a spell still doesn't necessarily have the spell, to put it in terms applicable to many other verses.
Is there some quote that indicates that Arceus doesn't just have the elemental power, but also the techniques Pokémon developed using those powers?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

All the Plates

I am referring to your statement that said:

The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon who come to this world

Which plate is this statement engraved on?

Nope. That was in reference to the Legend Plate, which has all Typings in one.

All the other plates contain an essence. The Legend plate contains all essences.

That means nothing without supporting evidence. One being it being mentioned the Plates determines the abilities of Pokémon

You have yet to actually provided where this is said. I've been asking for several posts.

 

[Sniper670]

A question: I have seen some quotes in this thread that one could maybe interpret to say that all Pokémon draw upon power given by the plates.
Let's assume that's true for a moment. (which it isn't necessarily)
Why does that mean that Arceus can do everything the Pokémon can?

Well, let's use Psychic Plates for example. There's no reason to believe he can't use psychic powers, because psychic powers are mind based

There are some moves his physiology would not permit. But that doesn't discredit the fact that he has access to all those powers.

A magician with enough mana (and the right affinities) for a spell still doesn't necessarily have the spell, to put it in terms applicable to many other verses.
Is there some quote that indicates that Arceus doesn't just have the elemental power, but also the techniques Pokémon developed using those powers?

The Plates are not all elemental. We have the Mind, Spooky, and Dragon, Plate amongst

Again, this does not discredit the fact the Plates allows him access to use them because it is the source of their powers. Think of Swirl Of Root

 

[Sniper670]

I am referring to your statement that said:

The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon who come to this world

Which plate is this statement engraved on?

Meadow Plate

All the other plates contain an essence. The Legend plate contains all essences.

Yes? All the Types

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of every type there is.

You have yet to actually provided where this is said. I've been asking for several posts.

Meadow Plate

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Well, let's use Psychic Plates for example. There's no reason to believe he can't use psychic powers, because psychic powers are mind based

There are some moves his physiology would not permit. But that doesn't discredit the fact that he has access to all those powers.

But that doesn't mean he gets the abilities of Pokemon like Trace, Speed Boost, etc. (which are not based on typings) Or abilities of non-pokemon characters.

I've been said that Arceus gets the moves he's shown to be able to do and learn, and the powers that come with being a certain type, and the powers he's shown to have.

 

[Sniper670]

But that doesn't mean he gets the abilities of Pokemon like Trace, Speed Boost, etc. (which are not based on typings) Or abilities of non-pokemon characters

They're all based on Typings. Magmortar moving around while being on fire is an ability born of the type that it represents. And that goes for many Pokémon, especially ghost types.

Plus it's made mention that the Plates determines the abilities of Pokémon

I've been said that Arceus gets the moves he's shown to be able to do and learn, and the powers that come with being a certain type, and the powers he's shown to have.

That's not what is accepted on the wiki.

The plates didn't limit what it referred to. In fact one of the Plates contain the very essence of all things. I don't see why you'd split moves from abilities here

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, let's use Psychic Plates for example. There's no reason to believe he can't use psychic powers, because psychic powers are mind based

There are some moves his physiology would not permit. But that doesn't discredit the fact that he has access to all those powers.

Let me say that the burden of prove is on you, so discrediting isn't the issue. You have to actually prove the opposite.

Now, Arceus can of course use psychic powers with the mind plate. I actually agree with that. It can channel the psychic-type energy for basic applications for sure. A blast of psychic energy? No doubt Arceus can do that.

However, I'm talking about more advanced applications. How do we know that Arceus can use the psychic energy to use the more complex psychic-type "spells"? How do we know it can "cast" the Skill Swap and Wonder Room "spells" for example?

The Plates are not all elemental. We have the Mind, Spooky, and Dragon, Plate amongst

Again, this does not discredit the fact the Plates allows him access to use them because it is the source of their powers. Think of Swirl Of Root

When I say elemental I just meant types.

Neither know, nor care, about swirl of root tbh. I can give you examples of the opposite as well. ToAru's Magic Gods for instance have more power than all other magicians combined and are supposedly able to do essentially everything (to the point that they have to deal with Omnipotence paradoxes). Yet we don't grant them the abilities of every other magician in the verse.
Or Noah has control over all concepts in the multiverse, but only gets their basic uses as powers. Advanced uses, like weapons that combine multiple concepts or magic techniques developed from them, aren't given to her.
Basically, either multiple ones are wrong or the context and evidence between those cases is just different.

 

[Sniper670]

Let me say that the burden of prove is on you, so discrediting isn't the issue. You have to actually prove the opposite.

The sentence you showed up:

うまれてくる ポケモン プレートの ちから わけあたえられる
Umaretekuru Pokemon Purēto no chikara wakeataerareru

…can be translated as Jwscorch already did. Maybe also:

The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon who come to this world

Word by word:

生まれてくる (umaretekuru) = to be born, to come into the world
ポケモン (Pokemon) = Pokémon
プレート (Purēto) = plate
力 (chikara) = power
分け与えられる (wakeataerareru) = distribute, share

Now, Arceus can of course use psychic powers with the mind plate. I actually agree with that. It can channel the psychic-type energy for basic applications for sure. A blast of psychic energy? No doubt Arceus can do that.

However, I'm talking about more advanced applications. How do we know that Arceus can use the psychic energy to use the more complex psychic-type "spells"? How do we know it can "cast" the Skill Swap and Wonder Room "spells" for example?

The Plates have the power of every type there is. Legend Plate :

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of every type there is.

When I say elemental I just meant types.

Neither know, nor care, about swirl of root tbh. I can give you examples of the opposite as well. ToAru's Magic Gods for instance have more power than all other magicians combined and are supposedly able to do essentially everything (to the point that they have to deal with Omnipotence paradoxes). Yet we don't grant them the abilities of every other magician in the verse.
Or Noah has control over all concepts in the multiverse, but only gets their basic uses as powers. Advanced uses, like weapons that combine multiple concepts or magic techniques developed from them, aren't given to her.
Basically, either multiple ones are wrong or the context and evidence between those cases is just different.

Evidence has been proven where Arceus literally placed the remaining power of his into the Plate. So saying he can use "basic attacks" and not advanced won't work here. Especially so when the plates allows him power over all types

The being poured the remains of its power into stone and buried it deep

Plus the Plates are Fragments of himself

https://i.gyazo.com/c8dd632f210eeb95f8804bd07e36f2d5.jpg

 

[DontTalkDT]

The sentence you showed up:


…can be translated as Jwscorch already did. Maybe also:


Word by word:

生まれてくる (umaretekuru) = to be born, to come into the world
ポケモン (Pokemon) = Pokémon
プレート (Purēto) = plate
力 (chikara) = power
分け与えられる (wakeataerareru) = distribute, share


The Plates have the power of every type there is. Legend Plate :

I have already seen those quotes, don't worry.

Even interpreted like you suggest that just means that the plates powers, i.e. the energies of their types, is shared between Pokémon. That wasn't what I was talking about.

My question was why that means that they can also all use the same techniques. Not every magician with fire-mana can cast the same fire spells and all that.

Evidence has been proven where Arceus literally placed the remaining power of his into the Plate. So saying he can use "basic attacks" and not advanced won't work here. Especially so when the plates allows him power over all types

Plus the Plates are Fragments of himself

https://i.gyazo.com/c8dd632f210eeb95f8804bd07e36f2d5.jpg

That, again, just means that he uses the same power as Pokémon use for their techniques.

It's like saying everyone in Naruto with fire chakra can use all the fire jutsus. Just having fire chakra alone doesn't allow you to do that at all.

 

[Sniper670]

I have already seen those quotes, don't worry.

Even interpreted like you suggest that just means that the plates powers, i.e. the energies of their types, is shared between Pokémon. That wasn't what I was talking about.

There's no energy here, since its not a universal energy system.

My question was why that means that they can also all use the same techniques. Not every magician with fire-mana can cast the same fire spells and all that.

The Plates is the spellbook itself

That, again, just means that he uses the same power as Pokémon use for their techniques.

Yes?

It's like saying everyone in Naruto with fire chakra can use all the fire jutsus. Just having fire chakra alone doesn't allow you to do that at all.

The Plates allows him access to power over an aspect of Reality.

Think of the plates as the Infinity Gauntlet, because it's almost the same thing. Power over an aspect of reality

 

[DontTalkDT]

There's no energy here, since its not a universal energy system.

There is a power that is shared. Called it whatever you want, but that is what the quotes say. (and 力 can be translated as energy by what you linked...)

The Plates is the spellbook itself

I see nothing to indicate that. All that's said is that the plates share their powers. Heck, even if true, having the spellbook alone still doesn't let you cast all spells within.

The Plates allows him access to power over an aspect of Reality.

Think of the plates as the Infinity Gauntlet, because it's almost the same thing. Power over an aspect of reality

Don't see anything that indicates that the flame plate grants its user power over of flames in existence.

Even if, that would still not justify it. The ability to manipulate every instance of something doesn't indicate the ability to achieve every possible manipulation.

 

[Purgy]

From what I've seen so far I feel like a lot of the evidence supporting Arceus having all the abilities is reliant on interpreting "power" as moves/techniques/abilities etc even though that's clearly not the case as the word used is "力" which almost always means force/strength/power/energy.

Is there any actual explicit example of a Pokemon gaining every ability from having a Plate? Because there are a few examples where it only amps them or changes their type.

 

[Sniper670]

There is a power that is shared. Called it whatever you want, but that is what the quotes say. (and 力 can be translated as energy by what you linked...)

No?

I see nothing to indicate that. All that's said is that the plates share their powers. Heck, even if true, having the spellbook alone still doesn't let you cast all spells within.

You decide not to see it.
2. Japanese Hiragana
うまれてくる　ポケモン プレートの　ちから　わけあたえられる
そのもの

The ability of an unborn Pokémon plate to determine
what it is

This, with the added evidence from the English version makes it clear the Pokémon are using the powers of the Plates

Don't see anything that indicates that the flame plate grants its user power over of flames in existence.

That's what it does

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of fire. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of the Fire type.

Even if, that would still not justify it. The ability to manipulate every instance of something doesn't indicate the ability to achieve every possible manipulation.

Please give an explanation rather generalizing everything, and being this vague. You're not helping anyone here

Arceus having mind plate doesn't mean he can't achieve what anyone has used psychic powers to do because???