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Overwatch Downgrades: Part II

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I scrolled up to see Weekly's comment about fighting games, and that's false. No fighting game with the exception of certain ones such as Primal Rage which has little to no story and thus everyone is equal in that game is fine; uses the game play feature for scaling. Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter literally has all these different classes for each tier and only those who are legit comparable scale. And we also actively lookout for outliers and PIS scenes.
 
The problem is the fact that they can't possible be on a team with Reaper, and that they haven't even interacted with Reyes since he "died". The discussion they have as a result isn't possible and can't be considered canon in the loosest form possible.

Honestly the lead writer's telling you the interactions aren't canon. This shouldn't even be a question.

That's foresight, not hindsight, actually.

Can't seem to find it. Can to take a screencap of the page in question and post it?

Can't seem to find it. Can to take a screencap of the page in question and post it?

That "offensive sonic weapon" doesn't exist in the story. Lucio is one of the biggest pacifists in the lore, talking about him like he wants to slaughter the Vishkar by using their tech as lethal weaponry is so off his character it isn't even funny.

"Seriously him being inspirational doesnt discredit him using a weapon."

It discredits him using it as a weapon when that's legit your only evidence for him using it as a weapon.
 
Are you supporting Weekly's comment or my response to it? I can't honestly tell.
 
I was noting something Weekly said earlier in the thread about his "Let's invalidate all fighting game verses." I've generally agreed with Mr King on the previous thread.
 
Well pardon me for finding the prospect of removing the video game aspect of a video game a tad bit extremely ridiculous
 
I would have to say he's merely pointing out the issue with what Weekly said, how that is completely and utterly false, and how the only example where this isn't a scaling like that is a fighting game that has nigh nonexistent story.
 
But it's not ridiculous weekly.

That's the point. We are given very understandable reasons, by the Lead Writer no less, why there's a divide between the game that aims mainly to be a game, and the actual story of the universe where this game take places, when the first contradicts the second horribly.

Not everything is gonna be the same, and the way the company tackled the gameplay/story interaction in this game was just... unusual. That's it. It's not that crazy really.
 
Death of the author invalidates that entire argument quite nicely. Why add a video game verse if youre just going to say 'nah its not a video game its a book verse so only what happens in the books is canon'. The fact that people are actually agreeing that we should completely nuke everything from the games that isnt constantly used in the lore makes me lose a lot of faith int his wiki.
 
Some games tell their story through the game itself, as I've mentioned before.

Soulsborne games are the ideal example of this.

Other games, mainly multiplayer games such as shooters and fighting games, typically has some degree of seperation between gameplay and story. Especially, like in the case of Overwatch, if there is no distinguished "story mode".

In OW's case, they're telling the story with animated shorts and comics, not the game itself. We're not "taking the game out of the game"; the creative team of OW took the story out of the game.
 
Death of the author invalidates nothing when said author is answering something in a very serious way, showcasing full knowledge of the issue and even bringing up specific examples that prove his point.

Unless I forget something, we don't just throw WoG out all day every day. This is one very plain case where I don't understand what weird logic would make you think this isn't trustworthy. Especially when he makes a lot of sense, and other stuff makes a lot of sense taking his words into account. Like a lot of King's issues with scaling.

So I am gonna be honest for a second, and say that it is ******* bullshit that you can actually dishonestly say the game tells its story through its game after countless examples disproving this.
 
I can give you dozens upon dozens of examples of lore that comes exclusively from the game. Why you insist that its not when everything about Overwatch as a whole contradicts your argument is beyond me.
 
GIVE THEM.

Stop with the damn claims that you don't back up. Back them up. Post the information. Bring up the lore. Do something besides empty claims, jesus christ. How long have you had time to do this?
 
You're conflating "lore comes from the game" to "the game making references to the lore".
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
GIVE THEM.

Stop with the damn claims that you don't back up. Back them up. Post the information. Bring up the lore. Do something besides empty claims, jesus christ. How long have you had time to do this?
Click to expand...
When i try to give claims and all i get met with is 'youre wrong stop talking' it really makes me believe that i will not be listened to so i dont se the point in it when you guys have a pre-determined idea about what this verse should be no matter who incorrect that idea is.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
When i try to give claims and all i get met with is 'youre wrong stop talking'
Click to expand...
Actually the first thing you said to me when I entered the thread was that I was lying, before saying myself and the lead writer of Overwatch were "just wrong" without any explaination for weeks.

Practice what you preech.
 
OKAY NO, we have a perception of the universe that you have failed to correct, don't play the victim card when you've had over five hundred post to provide the evidence we're asking. What lore is told from the game? Not references but legitimate lore that solely comes from the gameplay?
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Actually the first thing you said to me when I entered the thread was that I was lying, before saying myself and the lead writer of Overwatch were "just wrong" without any explaination for weeks.

Practice what you preech.
Click to expand...
I exclusively practice what i preach
 
Weekly, have you ever thought for a single second of this entire debacle that you may be wrong, that people disagree because nobody else is reaching your conclusions no matter your claims?

I have no problem with you defending your position, goddamn Dargoo has been waiting forever for the backing you keep talking about and when he gets something he replies as best as he can.

But like, for real, if you bring it up and people aren't convinced... maybe they have a point? This has reached a level where I think you don't want to accept this, and you don't want to budge. But everyone else here already has to deal with their proof and conclusions being shot down if they are found or thought of as insufficient. That is not a personal attack directed at you, but it certainly does mean you oughto start debating and letting it go. Because sometimes the other side is thought to be more correct, and this has felt more like a debate about this than about the actual scaling of the game.

Call me crazy, I don't care, but don't stone wall a revision if you are gonna make statements you aren't willing to back up. Take the damn leap and just accept that people won't be convinced even if you think you are right. Everyone is already doing that here.
 
The pen or the sword said:
OKAY NO, we have a perception of the universe that you have failed to correct, don't play the victim card when you've had over five hundred post to provide the evidence we're asking. What lore is told from the game? Not references but legitimate lore that solely comes from the gameplay?
Click to expand...
Tracer having a girlfriend, something that was revealed in-game months before the comics showed it

Sombra taking over the russian military through the president which happened long before the cinematic that showed this

Doomfist gaining a successor, something that happened in-game YEARS before doomfist was a lore character rather than just a name drop

Hammond existing

The rise of the second omnic crisis

Tracer and genji regularly sparring while in overwatch

All of this happened in-game long before it happened in-lore. Shall i go on? Are you guys finally ready to listen to what i have to say for once?
 
The pen or the sword said:
OKAY NO, we have a perception of the universe that you have failed to correct, don't play the victim card when you've had over five hundred post to provide the evidence we're asking. What lore is told from the game? Not references but legitimate lore that solely comes from the gameplay?
Click to expand...
Tracer having a girlfriend, something that was revealed in-game months before the comics showed it

Sombra taking over the russian military through the president which happened long before the cinematic that showed this

Doomfist gaining a successor, something that happened in-game YEARS before doomfist was a lore character rather than just a name drop

Hammond existing

The rise of the second omnic crisis

Tracer and genji regularly sparring while in overwatch

All of this happened in-game long before it happened in-lore. Shall i go on? Are you guys finally ready to listen to what i have to say for once?
 
Also... get off that freaking high horse.

Jesus Christ are you being actually serious? "so i dont se the point in it when you guys have a pre-determined idea about what this verse should be no matter who incorrect that idea is." How much more condescendently do you wanna make it clear you think we are wrong no matter what you say?

The moment you start to assume my position to criticize me for it is the moment you are doing a scumbag move. Don't do that. We are debating here, that shit ain't debating.
 
Youre stating your opinion, im stating mine. I am dead serious in everything i say. Up until now all you have done is stick your finger in your ears and refuse to listen while claiming that im not making an effort to say anything.
 
Weekly, you and I have already discussed this on the previous thread with King. The consensus, barring you, was to ignore gameplay feats and abilities, you can see it in the opening post here.

As I've said previously, backtracking this thread is a waste of everyone's time. There's no real need to discuss this further.
 
@Dargoo We have discussed nothing. You statet what you think is correct and never let me get a word in edgewise about what i had to say.

So no, there is no time wasting making an argument that was never allowed to be made in the first place.
 
"all you have done is stick your finger in your ears and refuse to listen while claiming that im not making an effort to say anything."

Ugh... stop looking at damn mirrors while accusing me of your own faults, I am not here for that.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Dargoo We have discussed nothing. You statet what you think is correct and never let me get a word in edgewise about what i had to say.
Click to expand...
King and I have already posted links back to the previous discussion, where I gave links to the evidence of the gameplay not being canon. This is the third time you're claiming we don't have evidence despite the fact that we already provided it to you.

I hope it's clear to all else present that this argument is just circular, and not going anywhere. I reccomend just proceeding with more relevent topics instead of eternally lingering on this.
 
Okay so do you want more evidence of it being canon? Because i have a LOT more to give if youre willing to actually listen.

Try to push me aside and apply this and i will revert everything and report you to Ant. I am not kidding.
 
So you are going to report an admin for stone walling a revision and taking an incredible amount of time to provide the evidence that you claim is in the dozens and easy to acquire.

For not being able to defend your point, but to you we are just clasping our ears.

Weekly, for christ's sake, what are you doing anymore? What the actual **** is this?
 
You're trying to pass off times when the game doesn't outright contradict the lore as "evidence of it being canon". What you should be more concerned with is the numerous, numerous times when the gameplay outright contradicts the lore as were mentioned upthread. That, not when it doesn't contradict the lore, is what makes taking gameplay feats in good faith impossible. And that's without even dipping into the writers spelling it out to you.

You're inserting drama where there is none, Weekly. If you want to try intimidating me by threatening to report me, do it without broadcasting it on a revision thread, please.
 
Show me where gameplay contradicts the lore canon. If you can somehow manage to find something i will stop immediately.
 
DerpCity said:
The quote from the lead writer already provided an example. If one example is all that's needed, you already have one.

"To make it extra confusing: it gets a little more complicated in-game because we chose to have some 'non-canon interactions because I think it's more interesting to have Reinhardt take out Reaper and say, "Traitor!" than to accurately reflect that he doesn't know Reaper's true identity. But as I've said before, events in game shouldn't be considered strictly canon."
Click to expand...
Apparently this stopped existing.

Or Lucio using weapons and killing people...

Or the mere fact literal teams of people that would attack each other on sight is so common an occurrence it wouldn't be worth mentioning...

Other stuff I am sure in the whole 2 threads this has spanned.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Show me where gameplay contradicts the lore canon. If you can somehow manage to find something i will stop immediately.
Click to expand...
Sombra hacking a man's legs.

Lucio killing people.

Tracer and Widowmaker working together.

Reaper and Soldier: 76 working together.

Most team comps of Talon and Overwatch members, honestly.

Zenyatta killing people.

Snowball being a area-of-effect freezing device what kills people.

Sombra hacking a man's ability to throw a hook.

Honestly anything with Sombra hacking, lol.

Basically any conceivable context of the characters fighting each other in small payload squabbles.

Please stop, immediately, as you said.
 
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