Overwatch Downgrades: Part II

[Drite77]

Sombra has velocity manip confirmed

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And yes, gladly, every map in the game expands on the lore of the game, numbani for example revraled oris before her official reveal and expands on doomfist's lore, route 66 gives insight into the background between reaper and mccree as well as mccree and ashe, kings row has multiple references to the lore both in the ebvironment and from the characters, thse are all just a few examples

 

[Drite77]

But it is confirmed that stuff in game is non cannon, and making references doesn't mean that we should take it as cannon when WoG has stated otherwise

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Her bullets are energy projections, they're not physical in any way and they leave burn holes rather than bullet holes just like 76-s plasma rifle

They're physical, as they are blocked and impact with objects.

If they're just lasers/energy projections, they clearly don't act the part.

And yes, gladly, every map in the game expands on the lore of the game, numbani for example revraled oris before her official reveal and expands on doomfist's lore, route 66 gives insight into the background between reaper and mccree as well as mccree and ashe, kings row has multiple references to the lore both in the ebvironment and from the characters, thse are all just a few examples

How is the gameplay referencing the lore make it part of the lore, when it's stated to not be so?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Isn't there a bunch of mlp comics that were deemed non cannon despite the references to the main series?

I remember a thread about that a while back and I think it was deemed despite these references and directors statements that the comics were cannon, the comics were deemed non cannon?

Point being references don't instantly equal cannoncity....

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But it is confirmed that stuff in game is non cannon, and making references doesn't mean that we should take it as cannon when WoG has stated otherwise

Please do post where it was stated that the gsme is non-canon

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isn't there a bunch of mlp comics that were deemed non cannon despite the references to the main series?

I remember a thread about that a while back and I think it was deemed despite these references and directors statements that the comics were cannon, the comics were deemed non cannon?

Point being references don't instantly equal cannoncity....

from what i was told theyre actually being considered canon now

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Dargoo wrote

How is the gameplay referencing the lore make it part of the lore, when it's stated to not be so?

Because its not referencing the lore, it IS the lore

 

[Drite77]

If thats the case why aren't we scaling them alongside one another anymore then? I thought last thread was all about throwing out there scaling based on the game-play being ruled non cannon.

Go here, then scroll through what was said.

@Weekly

 

[Wokistan]

Please do post where it was stated that the gsme is non-canon

Note that this is the exact same one that was posted last thread. Please do not attempt to incite a circular discussion.

It seems like a similar case to a bunch of random anime verses that have games based on them, where the storyline of the verse and what's presented in the game diverge significantly and as such we don't use the game.

 

[Drite77]

I am having Deja vus while reading this thread, don't know why though

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

The MLP comicbooks are not considered to automatically be a part of the TV show's canon continuity. from the my little pony page

From what I can tell the events in comics are only to be considered cannon if they are referenced in the tv show (main cannon) itself. The comics aknowledging things from cannon isn't enough. Considering the overwatch gameplay isn't refrenced in cannon by the cinematics/comics....

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No i mean post where in the game that says that the game is non-canon. the game itself has an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove that it is canon so id like to see what says that its not.

 

[Wokistan]

Simple, the fact that people can literally kill duplicates of themselves, will work with mortal enemies, and form logistically impossible team comps while also being in locations where explicitly different things happened/

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

the game itself has an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove that it is canon so id like to see what says that its not.

See, here's the problem in this.

The 'evidence' you're talking about is whenever the game is consistent with the lore. That's all well and good, sometimes a location will have an appropriate reference to an in-story event, although we're concerned with what's inconsistent. If the authors are saying not to include gameplay events in canon, if we notice various scenarios in the gameplay that just can't happen in the lore, if we notice abilities contradict what we see of them in canon (Sombra is a big example of this), it puts more and more doubt into what we pretty much just assume is canon because it's associated with the brand.

There's an overwhelming amount of evidence I've provided in regards to these inconsistencies, and direct statements from the brains behind the stories itself. It's kind of hard to argue little map hints and story-nods are "overwhelming evidence" against that.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yeah maybe we should treat it like the my little pony thing where we don't assume cannoncity due to refrences in the gameplay. If the actual cannon refrenced gamplay we'd be set but it doesn't seem to...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Simple, the fact that people can literally kill duplicates of themselves, will work with mortal enemies, and form logistically impossible team comps while also being in locations where explicitly different things happened/

You realized that this invalidates the scaling of every fighting game on this wiki right?

 

[Wokistan]

I think my issue would be mainly on stuff that relies on interaction with others, like scaling and the example of attempted NPI. I'd be less sketched out by say giving McCree a flashbang even if he didn;'t happen to have that specifically elsewhere, though it seems like we'd DQ this sort of thing too.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

hmmm don't most fighting games have a story mode in some form where characters use there abilities against each other.... Saying that fair example. I'll wait and see for now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo Yeah see therein lies the problem, the lore DOES reference the gameplay, regularly at that. Stuff like Storm Rising, Uprising, and the Venice Incident are all things that happened in gameplay first that were then backed up by the lore afterwards

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You realized that this invalidates the scaling of every fighting game on this wiki right?

What fighting game verses use the fact that the characters can fight in multiplayer as actual grounds for scaling?

Nearly all the ones I can think of (Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, etc.) have scaling only from the lore, with characters that can slap others in the lore fighting on even grounds in gameplay.

Overwatch seems to be very much an exception in this, not part of the rule, from how I see it.

 

[Wokistan]

You realized that this invalidates the scaling of every fighting game on this wiki right?

Maybe those fighting games need downgrades too idk I only play smash with my brother and irl friends

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo Yeah see therein lies the problem, the lore DOES reference the gameplay, regularly at that. Stuff like Storm Rising, Uprising, and the Venice Incident are all things that happened in gameplay first that were then backed up by the lore afterwards

You... do realize that the lore and game departments work together, occasionally, right?

My point is that everything that happens in the game need not be canon due to what the writers are telling us and with how inconsistent the game is in the first place. A special event that ties into the story really isn't indicitive of the gameplay as a whole, clearly.

A broken clock is right twice a day, and whatnot.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nah nah nah, either it's canon or its not, do not try to apply double standards just to fit your narrstive

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Stuff in regular gameplay is constantly referenced in the lore, therefore its canon

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Nah nah nah, either it's canon or its not, do not try to apply double standards just to fit your narrstive

Can we get through this discussion without snide, offhand remarks please?

Can you explain where my "double standards" are, by the way? I'm concerned with the pure gameplay elements (character abilities) not the occasional lore/gameplay crossovers (special events, which always have a lore entry released alongside them anyways), so I don't really see where I'm being inconsistent here.

 

[Wokistan]

It's made canon once incorporated into the story, but that's because it was well, represented in the lore. "Stuff in regular gameplay is constantly referenced in the lore, therefore its canon" isn't enough to override that the gameplay has things that are flat out impossible storywise (2 versions of each hero running around, for example) and that the writers don't seem to agree with you here/

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok you do know that 2 versions of the same character existing on the same team isn't a thing right?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can you explain where my "double standards" are, by the way? I'm concerned with the pure gameplay elements (character abilities) not the occasional lore/gameplay crossovers (special events, which always have a lore entry released alongside them anyways), so I don't really see where I'm being inconsistent here.

All in game abilities have been used in the lore so i dont see the issue here

Stuff that happens in every game isn't the occasional lore gameplay crossover

 

[The_Calaca]

Characters who in lore fight each other to death teaming up in gameplay seems totally canon to me.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Really all there abilities have appeared in lore? Why didn't you say so/provide scans? This whole discussion has taken place because we assumed many of the abilities come purly from gameplay.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah but it is on enemy teams and that still is a contradiction because these characters are individuals (excluding the robots)

If all the in game abilities are in the lore why not just... use those? That would get the abilities to stay much better than rguing about the game's canonicity again

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

All in game abilities have been used in the lore so i dont see the issue here

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Characters who in lore fight each other to death teaming up in gameplay seems totally canon to me.

Yes, because they already fought each other in canon. It's the story that validates it, not vice versa.

I'm talking about characters who haven't even met in canon, having a bullet-fest in the game.

Misread the sarcasm here, nevermind.

 

[Wokistan]

I think he was being sarcastic

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh, my bad.

Sarcasm translates poorly on the internet, something something. I'll edit the post.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Really all there abilities have appeared in lore? Why didn't you say so/provide scans? This whole discussion has taken place because we assumed many of the abilities come purly from gameplay.

I did but i was ignored lol

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If all the in game abilities are in the lore why not just... use those? That would get the abilities to stay much better than rguing about the game's canonicity again

We already do use them

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I did but i was ignored lol

Really? When did you give scans for every ability being justified in canon? I'm sure the list itself must have taken a large chunk of the previous thread given how long it would have needed to be.