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One Piece - Questionable Statistics

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Calaca Vs said:
@Stefano
If Base Doffy truly scales to this feat then G2/3 Luffy should aswell. The Gamma Knife didn't weakened Doffy to put him in 6-C and let alone High 7-A.
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At most you could argue that G2/3 is Island level only, since Doffy is still stronger than him without Gear 4th.
 
Stefano4444 said:
261 Gigatons of TNT? We had a feat on that scale?
Click to expand...
I assume they're using Gear 4 multipler on Aokiji's calc result to say that Gear 4 is 261 GT.
 
@Stefano

Not now since WB and Fuji's calcs aren't useful anymore.

As Damage said the 261 comes from the 3x multiplier.

And in the previous CRT I made a summary of every single time Luffy harmed Doffy and he did it with Red Hawk which is far below Gear 3rd variants so it should be 87 gigatons at least because it did damaged Doffy unlike Kuzan's ice.
 
I still think scaling Doffy to Kuzan is a stupid idea.

Doffy decided to not attack smoker, despite it screwing him over, because Aokiji was here.

Doffy attacks even people stronger than him(as seen vs fujitora), and yet he was afraid of challenging aokiji.

Secondly, the island level+ calculation assumes that Aokiji froze the sea as deep as in MF, even though that would imply that the ice WOULDNT melt in a week, as Aokiji himself stated.

Not to mention that Aokiji freezing the sea was a named attack, so we can't really say it's "casual". I'm against scaling anybody but the admirals to that feat.


Then there's an issue that was overlooked with Oven's feat. He combined the distance from Sunny to the ship far away with the distance Oven was from Sunny - even though we can clearly see that Oven is in front of Sunny, meaning that the distance is quite lower. The calc will still be 7-A most likely, but it is an important detail that should be noticed.

Finally, I'm still against using Pica's feat for reasons I, along with other users, stated quite a while ago. It cannot be translated to DC in any plausible way, and it's pretty obvious enviromental destruction.
 
Doffy wasn't afraid of Kuzan in the slightest as explained above. We know what he looks like while scared, he walked away from Kuzan because fighting him would take away his goal of getting to Ceasar. The name of the attack doesn't mean it's not casual. The context is what matters, similarly to how Natsu vaporizing the lake was casual despite him screaming out the name of the attack.
 
Natsu vaporizing the lake was casual because it was his normal body heat, and not the attack that he performed. If it was the result of his attack, then it wouldn't be casual.

Also once again, Doffy decided to rather let Smoker live and ruin his career than fight Aokiji. That says something.

Not to mention that the island level+ feat is based on false assumptions, as I mentioned above.

The fact remains that Doffy is far below an admiral like Aokiji. Aokiji is near equal to Akainu, who heavily damaged Old WB, who should be around Kaido's level of strength. And Kaido one shot G4 Luffy, the same Luffy who was low diffing Doflamingo throughout the fight. It is really silly to imply that Doflamingo is comparable to an admiral, when doflamingo is getting low diffed by G4 Luffy, who should be around Marco's level, who was once again, getting stomped by Akainu, an equal to Aokiji.

Scaling Doffy to anything Aokiji has to offer is going against what the manga is portraying.
 
Torch, don't worry about Aokiji's feat right now. I'm writing something up to explain a potential flaw regarding that calc.

I don't know if it will be accepted yet, but I'll post it tonight or tomorrow as a blog.
 
I could literally say the same for Kuzan here. The feat is casual as explained above, simply saying the name of the attack doesn't mean it isn't casual.


And once again, Doffy decided to let Smoker live because he had other matters to attend to. He wasn't afraid of fighting Kuzan and there's nothing to even suggest that. He was grinning the entire time and walked away. He broke out of the ice Kuzan placed him in and stopped Jozu who was able to make Kuzan bleed and fought him off panel. Also Marco wasn't getting stomped by Akainu either, Marco was able to hold him off in the war, Jozu fought Kuzan and made him bleed. Unless you wanna suggest that Jozu is stronger than Doffy despite him getting controlled by Doffy. Nobody is saying that he's Admiral level but he can certainly fight one without getting stomped instantly. He's fought Fujitora by himself but was scared shitless of Kaido. He even said that he'd rather fight an Admiral than Kaido. Also Whitebeard was sick, old and dying nor was his Haki was good as it used to be. So using that example isn't a good comparison. The point is that while the Admirals are stronger than First Mates and such they can still fight each other without getting stomped instantly. And even people like Zoro was take Fujitora's gravity attack and power through it.
 
Captain Torch said:
Doffy attacks even people stronger than him(as seen vs fujitora), and yet he was afraid of challenging aokiji.
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Pretty sure Doffy didn't want to fight especially because Law and Luffy had captured Caesar Clown and he couldn't affort to waste any time, in particular in fighting someone on the caliber of an admiral.

Captain Torch said:
Secondly, the island level+ calculation assumes that Aokiji froze the sea as deep as in MF, even though that would imply that the ice WOULDNT melt in a week, as Aokiji himself stated.
Click to expand...
That could be not necessarely because the ice was thin but due of the Grand Line unbalanced weather.
 
Then there's an issue that was overlooked with Oven's feat. He combined the distance from Sunny to the ship far away with the distance Oven was from Sunny - even though we can clearly see that Oven is in front of Sunny, meaning that the distance is quite lower. The calc will still be 7-A most likely, but it is an important detail that should be noticed.

Finally, I'm still against using Pica's feat for reasons I, along with other users, stated quite a while ago. It cannot be translated to DC in any plausible way, and it's pretty obvious enviromental destruction.

I quicly recalced this feat, 100.96 Megatons as low-End (Mountain level)

3.92 Gigatons as High-End (Large Mountain level+)

Low End is accepted value, but High-End is more accurate
 
Ugarik said:
I quicly recalced this feat, 100.96 Megatons as low-End (Mountain level)

3.92 Gigatons as High-End (Large Mountain level+)

Low End is accepted value, but High-End is more accurate
Click to expand...
So either every Mid Tier get drop to Mountain level or they get upgraded to Large Mountain level+.

With the case of the High End not only it is more accurate but it could make sense as Calaca Vs had show that Gear 2nd Luffy had be capable to consistently harm Doflamingo, and both Zoro and Sanji should be comparable to Gear 2nd Luffy or at least not far weaker.
 
> Calaca Vs had show that Gear 2nd Luffy had be able to consistently harm Doflamingo

Before Doflamingo was weakened with Gamma Knife I thought the only time Gear 2nd Luffy hurt Doffy was with Red Hawk?
 
Damage3245 said:
> Calaca Vs had show that Gear 2nd Luffy had be able to consistently harm Doflamingo
Before Doflamingo was weakened with Gamma Knife I thought the only time Gear 2nd Luffy hurt Doffy was with Red Hawk?
Click to expand...
Luffy had harm Doffy in other occassions than just with his Red Hawk.

And its unlikely that the Gamma Knife would cause so much damage to Doffy to the point of make him more than a hundred of times weaker.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Luffy had harm Doffy in other occassions than just with his Red Hawk.

And its unlikely that the Gamma Knife was causa so much harm to the point that Doffy had became more than a hundred of times weaker than before.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

I understand I might be asking a lot, but I'd like for any edits to the profiles to be postponsed until tomorrow at least so I can get a blog post up about Aokiji's feat.

I do know that the Aokiji calc is already accepted, but seeing as all of this scaling crucially hinges upon a single calc, I have a couple points about it that I'd like to discuss about it that I cannot do tonight due to time limitations
 
Sword: I do not see how that is the same thing. You took issue with my tier list and simply stated Kaido is not God tier, without saying why. I welcome a difference of opinion, particularly if it leads to new information about this series. Just outright saying no doesn't help much though. That's why I wanted you to read what lead up Kaido's tiering and respond to that (Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter as long as you stipulate why and show you read it).

What you said in turn was that I had not read the source material itself. That is insulting. Regardless If what I wrote set you off and I apologize if you were somehow offended.

I'm not sure whether to continue responding as your last paragraphy slanders me. I'm not making stuff up and I don't want to write out a long response detailing the whys and hows of the verse lore if that response "making things up" is going to be the only reply.

Bringing things back on topic, this thread started out with Cin citing their views regarding some calcs:

The whitebeard calc has been discredited at this point.

The meteors and birdcage have been downgraded, rendering Cin's views and any opposition moot.

I think there are still some who disagree with planet size but overall that seems to have reached an agreement for the time being.

That settles everything Cin brought up in the OP so I'm not sure why this thread is still open unless it has to do with Pica. I rather Damage and other more knowledgeable members take up that can of worms so I'll stay out of it for now.

All that is left is Cin's end notes regarding their tiers and the characters they put in each one. I disagree with so many characters being put in the "God Tier" but I think that can be taken up in a new thread unless Cin wants to respond back to the discusion we were having. It does not seem to have been the focus of thier OP but I could be wrong about that.
 
@Dr.Fix I actually did state why. You just didn't bother to read it. But it's fine if you don't listen to my arguments as I'm sure a great majority of the people here would agree that Roger and Prime Whitebeard are stronger than Kaido. And as I stated before, I'm not taking my statements back. Your arguments use a lot of assumptions that completely contradicts everything we know about the series. The reason why I question whether you read One Piece is because you do this twice. First, you argued that Kaido could be one shotted if hit by a meteor, but now you want to argue that he is the god tier of the verse?

I don't want to be rude or sarcastic to you, but this is ridiculous. There's a reason why god tier profiles haven't been made for One Piece yet. It's because all of the characters thus far can be compared to someone else. I recommend reading my earlier post before you try to dispute this one. I'm not going to keep stating over and over why Kaido isn't stronger than the Pirate King, because that is obvious to anyone who's read at least the first chapter or seen the first episode, no offense.

By the way, the Narrator said, "People say..." he didn't say, "No one individual can beat Kaido. The Narrator only described the lore around him. That's all for now. You can ask the others what they think and they can argue with you. I would seriously laugh so hard if this site lists Kaido as the god tier of One Piece.
 
What I don't understand is why is a problem having one calc supporting the tiering (unless is flawed) of the top and god tiers of the series. We have the same thing for a lot of verses that scales to just one calc and unless it's proven otherwise they're still acceptable. I.e. we have One Punch Man that got downgraded because Genos's feat is far higher than what the series often portrays and it was made by a pseudo-kind-of-fodder while Aokiji's calc comes from one of the strongest characters of the whole series with a casual attack (named attack or not he just touched the water).

If someone thinks that the current method can't be used then go ahead and calc it using horyzon values as some people already said. It'll lead to an even higher end and I wouldn't be surprised if people start calling this outlier just for the sake of discrediting even more the verse. Right now this is what I think it's going on.
 
I agree about that Kaido is likely not the most powerful character in the series. He has been repeatedly defeated in the past.
 
I actually believe we should scale his durability way above his AP.

Also Kaido has never lost in a one on one fight since his time as a pirate. His lists should include when he wasn't a pirate
 
Has the story ever said he's never lost a one-on-one fight since he become a pirate?
 
AstralKing7 said:
I actually believe we should scale his durability way above his AP.

Also Kaido has never lost in a one on one fight since his time as a pirate. His lists should include when he wasn't a pirate
Click to expand...
My point is that it never states that. It's just a misinterpretation of what the Narrator is ACTUALLY saying. He says that one on one, people say to bet on Kaido. That doesn't mean he always wins, in fact, it was stated he lost multiple times and was captured even more times than that. The multiple captures are probably his defeats by groups of people (I.e. surrounded by BM pirates including BM herself).
 
In the anime it said he will always win a one on one fight. I watched it yesterday literally one on one he will win. It means two things, Kaido has never lost a one on one fight and he will always win a one on one fight. You can interpret it as place your bets on him which doesn't make sense when no one should be stupid enough to actually wanna go up against Kaido in a one on one fight when the guy can't be harmed anymore
 
@AstralKing7 The anime is considered sencondary canon to the manga as scenes sometimes are changed (dragged out, censored, etc.). An example of why the anime isn't considered canon is found in One Piece opening 19 We Can! In the opening G4 Luffy clashes with Kaido, but the manga just revealed that it wasn't happening. The anime changes things a lot. But basically, the manga doesn't say what was said in the anime and it is the actual canon material.
 
Calaca Vs said:
No it isn't.
It's very inconsistent with the manga so we shouldn't use it as such.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Secondary canon does not matter. The manga is where we get feats from and is what we use for any and all calcs. Secondary canon means that the anime's portrayal of feats aren't taken into account due to inconsistencies and differences from the manga. In other words, this entire time I was agreeing with you. Secondary canon isn't considered canon.
 
I think this thread has served its purpose, and discussion should be held on the other thread now.
 
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