One Piece - Questionable Statistics

[Sword_guy_Z]

You should not start out a response this way. It is disrespectful to declare someone has not read the material, especially when you have not read their points thoroughly.

"Kaido has been defeated 7 times and is known as the "Strongest Creature Alive". Both Roger and Whitebeard are dead."

You left out the fact that he has only ever been defeated by being ganged up on. One on one, he wins. Neither Roger nor WB have eve hurting Kaido, let alone defeating Kaido on their resume

"Not to mention the fact that he is considered comparable to the other Yonko and is still, himself incapable of becoming Pirate King."

Flase. Kaido is not considered comparable to other Yonko in the series. Becoming Pirate King has never once been said to be about being the single strongest character.

"Please only try to dispute my posts if you have evidence, because it gets really tiresome and frustrating when I have to keep stating what should be obvious."

Likewise. Remember your initial post was: "Kaido is not God Tier. He is comparable to other Yonko. He is not stronger than WB or Roger."

I responded to you in the same manner you responded to me. Have you taken into consideration that I also felt disrespected by your initial post? And I stand by what I said. The narrator never said that Kaido lost because he was "ganged up on". You're making that up.

The whole reason Whitebeard was considered a big deal was because he was capable of fighting Gol D Roger when he was in his prime. Throughout the series, it has been stated and implied that being Pirate King meant being the strongest. For that very reason, Luffy wants to be able to defeat opponents like the Yonko.

You make up stuff about the series and treat your assumptions like they're facts when they're really not. And yes, Kaido is considered comparable. That's why all the Yonkos are at a stalemate. Also BM's statement that with the help of Elbaf she could have taken care of "Kaido, Red Hair, and EVEN Whitebeard" implies that Whitebeard was strongest of the Yonko.

Furthermore, she wasn't even intimidated by Kaido's death threat. Again, read One Piece.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

If it's that casual and when it's not even a attack then yes, Kuzan is definitely capable of attacking with much more force behind that. Kuzan again had no reason to hold back on Doffy, Doffy was seconds away from killing Smoker and had to freeze him to stop him. After that Doffy broke out with easy and was about to fight Kuzan, and only stopped because he had other things to attend to. It would also be consistent with him fighting with Fujitora and Jozu who drew blood from Kuzan and Doffy was able to stomp him with ease. Vista fought against Mihawk for a short period as well and Jozu is comparable to Vista. There's multiple reasons why Doffy would scale to Kuzan to some extent.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Dr.Fix Also, I'm going to stop quoting you since the posts are getting too long. I recommend you do the same.

 

[Damage3245]

Kuzan has no reasons to hold back if he see Doflamingo attempting to kill Smoker.

Then Doffy's durability scales to Gear 4th instead of otherwise.

And that rating comes with Luffy being baseline 6-C without the Aokiji's feat into consideration. Even if you disagree with it a CRT was made and the majority agree. Nothing has changed.

He does have a reason to hold back. He doesn't have time for a fight when he needs to get Smoker some help.

And Doflamingo's subordinate says it's a relief he wasn't frozen down to the core, implying Aokiji held back on freezing him fully.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It doesn't matter if Kuzan didn't want to fight. Doffy was willing to fight with Kuzan after he broke out, and only stopped to attend to more important matters.

 

[Damage3245]

It doesn't matter if Kuzan didn't want to fight. Doffy was willing to fight with Kuzan after he broke out, and only stopped to attend to more important matters.

> Doffy was willing to fight.

"I have no desire to fight you"

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Yes, to go rescue Ceasar. Don't ignore context please.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Damage3245 But your argument actually proves the opposite. If it went all out, he would've finished Doflamingo off quick and easy rather than risk him getting out and challenging him to a duel or killing off the already weakened Marines. I do agree that Aokiji held back, but not for the reasons that you used.

 

[AstralKing7]

Why would u hold back on freezing and killing one of the most vile people in OP??? if doggy's subordinates are thinking that Kuzan could have killed him that easily and quickly why didn't he cause he froze Doffy really really fast. He could have killed him while he was frozen also.

 

[Damage3245]

Because of the matters at Punk Hazzard. Don't ignore context please.

That is one interpretation. The other interpretation is that Doffy doesn't want to fight Aokiji because he knows he'd get defeated.

And I'm not ignoring context; there can be more than one reason for why he doesn't want to fight. I'm presenting equally valid reasons.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Sword: Block of text is hard on my eyes. Please change the form of your post to paragraphs.

 

[Damage3245]

Why would u hold back on freezing and killing one of the most vile people in OP??? if doggy's subordinates are thinking that Kuzan could have killed him that easily and quickly why didn't he cause he froze Doffy really really fast. He could have killed him while he was frozen also.

Because Aokiji doesn't want to start a fight - even if there's a good chance he'd ultimately win.

He came there to save Smoker. Not to defeat Doflamingo.

He froze him to both stop his attempt at killing Smoker, and to warn him that Aokiji is fully capable of fighting him.

Doffy chose to back off and take his subordinates with him.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Damage, you're using even more assumptions again. If Doffy was afraid of fighting with Kuzan he would have visibly been in de-stress which he wasn't. This is someone who would prefer to fight against a Admiral than a Yonko like Kaido. This is someone who took control of Jozu who fought with Kuzan, damaged him and fought him off screen.

 

[AstralKing7]

Doffy new he would have had to fight Kuzan tho cause he was literally about to kill his former vice admiral. Doffy is a fickle person. At first he didn't care about Kuzan standing in front of him while about kill Smoker but then other the blue he loses interest. He was already prepared or he wouldn't have even tried to kill smoker and he had the advantage with his subordinates there as well

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Dr.Fix Done.

 

[Ugarik]

So is Pica's feat scaling accepted? Because if it's not Luffy would be downgraded to 7-B.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage, you're using even more assumptions again. If Doffy was afraid of fighting with Kuzan he would have visibly been in de-stress which he wasn't. This is someone who would prefer to fight against a Admiral than a Yonko like Kaido. This is someone who took control of Jozu who fought with Kuzan, damaged him and fought him off screen.

Doffy almost always has a smile on his face. He rarely ever appears stressed.

He showed a willingness to fight Fujitora but that was on his home turf and with his full crew around.

Saying "he'd rather quit the Seven Warlords and fight the Admirals" hardly counts because as we know he never actually quit the Warlords. It was a lie.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Give me one good reason why he would attack with less force than his feat thats not even an attack in the first place? Legit his 6-C feat isn't even an attack, just him helping an old man. I'm sorry, but Occams Razor would assume he would at least use similar force against someone about to kill his friend if his feat isn't even an attack. Especially not when this same person stomped someone who survived his freezing.

 

[The_Calaca]

>Upgrading Gear 2 Luffy to Island level+ is not good scaling.

What do you think is good scaling? Are you going by the fact that Luffy didn't show the same power in the previous arcs in order to say this? If Doffy scales to Aokiji and G2 can hurt him then he scales. And stop bringing just Aokiji vs Doffy because there are far more reasons to prove the scaling that were explained in the CRT. I even said that Doffy and Kuzan's encounter is a supportive feat if Doffy scales to Jozu who scales to Kuzan which gives sense to the scaling.

You can argue that your interpretation says otherwise but stopping a killer from killing your friend requires more effort than helping an old man to meet his family and friends.

>Buffalo's statement

Then Aokiji held back more against Doflamingo than against a Sea King. That's what you're saying.

Your interpretation is valid but it doesn't apply to this case since it ignores the whole context and the rest of the scaling chain.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

1: Yeah expect whenever he thought about making Kaido angry. Doffy might be grinning for most of the time but he isn't stupid either. If he was afraid of fighting Kuzan he would have shown it.


2: His crew wasn't around when he fought Fujitora. He fought a 3 person fight with Law and Fujitora. His crew didn't have a part in his fight with them.


3: Never even mentioned him quitting the Warlords, but we know for a fact he'd rather fight an Admiral instead of Kaido.

 

[Damage3245]

Give me one good reason why he would attack with less force than his feat thats not even an attack in the first place? Legit his 6-C feat isn't even an attack, just him helping an old man. I'm sorry, but Occams Razor would assume he would at least use similar force against someone about to kill his friend if his feat isn't even an attack.

Doffy's subordinate states that Doflamingo wasn't frozen through fully (indicating he was frozen on the surface, evidenced by him breaking out of a thin layer of ice).

He only needed to stop Doflamingo from killing Smoker. Freezing him / temporarily immobilizing him would accomplish that.

His 6-C feat was done on such a scale that needed to happen; he needed to freeze that amount of ice. Nothing he says his attacks has to be exactly as powerful as that if they don't need to be.

 

[Damage3245]

2: His crew wasn't around when he fought Fujitora. He fought a 3 person fight with Law and Fujitora. His crew didn't have a part in his fight with them.

He fought a 2 vs. 1 with Fujitora against Law.

He talked to his crew later (after the Birdcage went up) and said fighting Fujitora would be tough but likely inevitable.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

His 6-C feat done with ease and it's low balled. If you honestly believe that Kuzan put more effort into freezing a sea for an old man to get back home than freezing a power house that was gonna kill a friend of his within the next second then there are obvious issues with that statement.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

1 : And your point is? Doesn't change the fact that his crew had nothing to do with it like you imply.


2: Which is false going by how he handled Fujitora and Law.

 

[Damage3245]

Actually I think the 6-C feat isn't really as low-end as it seemst; if you think about it, it's actually more of a mid-end / high-end calc since it's using the maximum depth of water under sea level that we've seen Aokiji freeze.

Technically it doesn't need to be that deep since he only has to support a man and his horse for their journey and depending on climate, the ice wouldn't need to be 47 meters thick to last a week.

Do we know how deep ice would need to be to melt in a week? I'm betting it won't be close to 47 meters.

 

[Damage3245]

1 : And your point is? Doesn't change the fact that his crew had nothing to do with it like you imply.

2: Which is false going by how he handled Fujitora and Law.

What do you mean handle them? He never once fought Fujitora aside from attempting to kick him in the royal palace.

I mentioned his crew because when he said that Fujitora would have to be dealt with individually, he never implied he was going to fight him one-on-one.

 

[Stefano4444]

It should be still logical to assume that Doflamingo is comparable to a casual Aokiji, since the latter seen to have put the same effort in freezing the sea and that Doffy was little affected by it, that make him definitively Island level+.

Which is also support by Doffy's strings be strong enough to hold Jozu and match a casual Fujitora, who shouldn't be far weaker compare with other admirals.

Due of this factors, the powerscaling would be like in this way:

Island level+ = Doflamingo (without awakening threads).

At least Island level+ = Gear 4th Luffy (without Kong Gun), Cracker, Jack, Smoothie, Sabo, Jozu, Ace, Vista, Fujitora (assuming he is as strong as other admirals).

At least Island level+, likely higher = Aokiji, Kizaru, Katakuri, Marco, Benn, Akainu (Pre Timeskip), Rayleigh (Old).

Likely Large Island level = Big Mom, Akainu (Post Timeskip), Shanks, ;ihawk, Kaido, Blackbeard (Current), Garp (Old), Whitebeard (Old), Sengoku (Old)

Large Island level = Whitebeard (Prime), Gol D. Roger, Garp (Prime)

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I'm not gonna sit here and argue semantics. If I used horizon scaling and scaled the trees to the depth he froze the feat would be higher than what it currently is. Now let's not derail.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not gonna sit here and argue semantics. If I used horizon scaling and scaled the trees to the depth he froze the feat would be higher than what it currently is. Now let's not derail.

I don't quite understand how you can get depth from the height of the trees. (Distance, sure, but I don't get depth.)

Anyway, I'll give the calc an examination myself and see if anything comes of it.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Anyway this seems to be going the same way the previous CRT did. The majority of people here are disagreeing with you Damage. I'll go ahead and tally up the score.


In agreement to the upgrade: 17 (CinCameron, Kuulichigo, Phoenix, Js, Captain Torch, Stefano4444, Astralking, Sword Guy Z, Rei Ruburto, Rotofbots, Calaca, Nedge, Light buster, Zackmoon, Cmuel and me.)


Against : 1 (Damage )

 

[Js250476]

You can add me to the agreement list as well

 

[Damage3245]

I assume the upgrades you are referencing are the list that Stefano just typed out?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

No, the ones Cin is referring to, mainly Doffy scaling to Kuzan to an extent.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

You can also add me to the agreements

 

[Antvasima]

The scaling will likely be a bit lower than previously after Damage3245 recalculated Dressrosa's size.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Stefano

If Base Doffy truly scales to this feat then G2/3 Luffy should aswell. The Gamma Knife didn't weakened Doffy to put him in 6-C and let alone High 7-A.

Doffy would be something like At least Island level+ by himself with Large Island level+ durability coming from Gear 4th which should be somewhat higher than 261GT.

The reasons for denying High 6-C Dressrosa G4 is that we had feats from the God Tiers barely above this but now that's not the case and this is the only thing that'd give OP the High 6-C. WCA Luffy would be barely above this anyway so the upgrade isn't so big.

Without the God Tiers feats we have no restrictions that'd put inconsistencies.

The Admirals (except Fujitora without showings) should be At least Island level+, possibly Large Island level because some of them clashed and fought with Whitebeard.

Kaido and BM should be At least Large Island level for the reasons I explained before.

@Ant

While the new values are truly a downgrade for some characters it would affect the likes of Zoro because we still have Aokiji's feat to support the tiering for the God and Top Tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

@Calaca

Alright.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Actually I don't think Zoro is gonna be downgraded since the Databook states that he's only second to Luffy and Sanji scales to a 7-A+ feat and there's nothing to really suggest he got stronger on Whole Cake. I'll make a separate thread for this.

 

[The_Calaca]

Zoro scales to Pica who's 7-A so Zoro's not geting downgraded anyway. WC Sanji and Dressrosa Zoro are different characters and we can't scale Zoro to Sanji yet. He's far stronger than that tho.

 

[Stefano4444]

@Stefano
Doffy would be something like At least Island level+ by himself with Large Island level+ durability coming from Gear 4th which should be somewhat higher than 261GT.

261 Gigatons of TNT? We had a feat on that scale?