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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #5

Damage3245

Damage3245

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Quite a few calcs have been remade in the light of certain errors being discovered in previous calcs, this means that a lot of the current scaling chains for Post-Timeskip characters are obsolete and require a thorough examination. Here is a rough list of all the calcs to take into consideration.

Here is the previous thread.

Here is a list of all the profiles to cover - some of which have new, estimated ratings already.

Current Topic
Deciding on the ratings for top-tiers, especially the Yonkou Commanders and Admirals.

Finalizing these ratings are what is most important.
 
So I thought about it overnight and the Admirals really scale closer to FMs/YCs more then Yonko:

Silvers matched Admiral

Marco stalled Admiral via DF

Jozu somewhat hurt Admiral

Ace offset Admiral attk

Jack fought Admiral + former Fleet admiral + senior vice-admiral

Queen to above

King to above

Sabo fought/stalled Admiral

Execs are fighting two Admirals

Duffy tanked Admiral attk (NO Downplay!)

Luffy to above

Cracker to above

Smoothie to above

Katakuri to above + higher bounty then Jack, +1st mate status

Benn hyped to be superior to Marco+ 1st mate status

Only time they came close to Yonko was damaging WB, who Oda made a point of showing was not very durable in his old age+sickness.

Just food for thought.

Also Damage forgot Fugitora and I have no idea why Duffy would scale to Oven over his own High 7-A+ feat as a minimum.
 
One thing before getting into what's more important. What rating should the Baroque Works have? Daz and Bentham scales to 8-A but the rest don't have much to provide them a rating so an At least High 8-C for them should be fine. The same would go for the Strawhats.
 
Dr. Fix; I am not scaling Doflamingo to Oven, I am scaling him to harming Trafalgar Law.

Using the logic that Doflamingo's durability must be High 7-A for taking Gear 4 attacks, therefore Law's AP/Durability is High 7-A and Doflamingo's AP must be High 7-A for harming him.

The High 7-A+ calc is for the durability of Doflamingo's Birdcage, not the AP of his strings.

And you're right, I forgot to add Fujitora to the list it seems.
 
You can't scale duffy to law and law to Duffy. That's a circle without end.

Seems like Law could scale to Duffy who scale to at least birdcage. I'm not 100% on that though as I haven't thought about Law in a while. I know his abilities bypass durability to an extent.
 
Dr. Fix; if Doffy got his durability rating from Law's AP, then it would be circular, but it's not currently.

It goes:

Gear 4 AP --> Doffy's Durability --> Law's AP/Durability --> Doffy's AP.

That's not a circle.

Doffy's AP does not scale directly to the Birdcage's Durability.
 
>>Doffy's AP does not scale directly to the Birdcage's Durability.

I know you think that. Just as I know this has come up before and others disagree with you.
 
I mean, I understand that it is a site-wide guideline that Durability should scale to Attack Potency in cases of striking in particular as a person or weapon needs to be as durable as their attack because otherwise they would hurt themselves, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Attack Potency doesn't automatically scale to Durability.
 
@Fix - Calm down.

@Damage - Law should not scale to Doflamingo. And Doflamingo scales way above Law. Any actual hit that connected to Law either left him stunned (casual kick to the jaw), pierced him completely (Bullet thread), or dismembered him (Itonoko). Law only ever dealt damage to Doflamingo with Room attacks, and as we all know, all of them except Counter-shock outright ignore durability, otherwise, all he managed was a slight cut to the hand (still in Room).

Doflamingo stomped Gear 2nd Luffy (twice) and even Gear 3rd was unable to overpower his threads (even w/ Haki). Even Post-Gamma Knife, Luffy was unable to match Doflamingo and his best attacks resulted in little-to-no damage (Red-hawk doing next to nothing despite catching Doflamingo completely off-guard), hence why I'm saying Doflamingo should be given an "At least" in AP and Durability. Also, taking hits from Gear 4th Luffy should also support the boost in Durability.

Law was also pressured by the Black Knight, and it's not like they were fighting on-panel for very long before Luffy was left to fight it. The way I see it, Law should scale even lower than current. Clearly was no match for casual-Doflamingo, and was unable to even overpower his Black Knight. He required his hax to inflict any damage to Doffy.

As for Doflamingo's AP scaling: (Casually one-shot Smoker, who could take hits from Vergo. Stomped Sanji, and would have one-shot him. Far stronger than Gear 2nd Luffy and Trafalgar Law, defeating both of them with little difficulty on two occasions. Was implied to be capable of crushing Law's skull with a stomp, even while in a weakened state. Stopped Jozu mid-attack with his threads and held him in place. Toyed with Atmos. Although this does not apply to his AP, he was willing to challenge the likes of Fujitora, despite knowing his position and power as an Admiral. Even after being struck by Gamma Knife, Doflamingo easily overpowered Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy throughout their fight, forcing Luffy to resort to Gear 4th.) - Should account for him being "At least"

Doffy's Durability scaling: (Tanked attacks from Sanji without receiving any damage. Trafalgar Law has only been able to harm Doflamingo with his ROOM attacks [which ignore durability], but Doflamingo's Haki has been seen overpowering them on several occasions. Attacks from Gear 2nd Luffy enhanced with Haki were noted as "tickling" him, and only Red-hawk inflicted any visible damage to Doflamingo. Doflamingo, while in a weakened state, could take hits from Gear 4th Luffy, which can destroy Doflamingo's threads and is noted by Doflamingo himself to be "several times stronger than before". Doflamingo withstood being frozen by Aokiji with minimal debilitating effects, although it's possible the latter was holding back to some degree.)

That's all I have to say regarding Doflamingo. I ignored his Awakening for the scaling, as that's clearly higher than his standard AP.

(I still think he should be scaled to his Bird-Cage since it is illogical for him to resort to weaker threads in combat when he has made thousands to millions of those threads on a whim. But the only things that would scale are Luffy's Red-Hawk to Doffy's overall AP since that's the only attack to actually deal real damage to Doffy w/out hax and such)
 
I just want to clear on what Luffy's Gear 2nd is rated, as there is people who say that he should outright scale to Zoro and Sanji in that form, which they are At least City level.
 
As for Law, he should scale above Vergo, and above Base Luffy. Maybe some scaling to Doflamingo for actually withstanding his attacks for several minutes.
 
IIRC who argued for Law scaling to Doffy said that he clashed with him many times despite not making any visible damage w/o Room.
 
@Kobster, the issue is that there is no direction connection between Gear 2 Luffy and Post-Timeskip Zoro & Sanji to make that scaling accurate. Aside from just guesswork, if we wanted to go that direction.
 
@Js - IMO, Law's sword should scale his durability higher since, without it, we've seen what happened. He did block an attack with Haki on his arms, though, but we don't scale Haki to their flat stats.
 
That's fair to say

I think I agree about Birdcage to in that he just summons it on a whim both times and Rosinante even says it's one of his string techniques
 
The only character we have Haki applied to stats is Gear 4th Luffy since he's basically using Armament Haki the entire time he is maintaining the form. Otherwise, Armament Haki should be further emphasized in character abilities.
 
Okay, so what I'm seeing is:

Downgrade Law to above Vergo/Smoker's level.

Put Doflamingo at At least High 7-A.
 
I mean, Armament isn't a massive anp. If Law is around High 7-A with it then he shouldn't be far weaker w/o Armament.
 
Then it should probably apply to Law being "At least 7-A+, Likely High 7-A" (Assuming Vergo and Smoker are 7-A+ since Law has low-diff'd both of them)

@Damage - Yes, Law should be downgraded. Nothing implies he's equal or even comparable to Doflamingo outside of managing to withstand a few of his attacks (mostly with his sword and haki), and everything suggests Doflamingo is more powerful than him in every area. And while Doflamingo is evidently not as strong as Gear 4th Luffy, he's way stronger than Gear 2nd/3rd as shown in their earlier fight, and he's only ever fought Gear 4th in a weakened state thanks to Law.
 
I dont agree with downgrading Law, yes Mingo was stronger than him, but Law was more than able to damage and blocking his attacks, even if he ended up loosing.
 
Withstanding with Haki would still mean he would scale somewhat. Luffy had to block fake-Cracker's attacks with Haki after all.

Doflamingo blocked Gear 3 pretty easily with Spider Web but he never overpowered it.

I think the best ratings we could give them are:

Doflamingo: At least High 7-A, likely higher with Awakening

Gear 4 Luffy: At least High 7-A, High 7-A+ with King Kong Gun

Trafalgar Law: High 7-A

Even if Law is baseline High 7-A, he could be weaker than Doflamingo.

If that doesn't work out we'd just have to throw out every attack that Law landed on Doflamingo or every attack that he blocked...
 
@Ercosore - Law only hurt Doflamingo with attacks that ignore durability, and I do not think there is an instance (except w/ Counter-shock, but Doflamingo was in a near-death state) where Law hurt him without his DF power. But yes, blocking Doflamingo's attacks is the only reason why i wouldn't just flat out throw him under the High 7-A tier, since he did so for several minutes.

@Damage - Yeah, that works (idk where the + comes from for KKG though)

Also, I believe we need to re-evaluate the tiering for each of Luffy's gears for Whole Cake arc:

Base and Gear 2nd are definitely the same, but I don't think Gear 3rd should scale to Katakuri just for supposedly matching one of his punches, as Katakuri previously overpowered Gear 3rd with ease, and it was still abundantly clear that Katakuri was stronger than Gear 3rd Luffy towards the climax of their fight. So, At least 7-A in base, High 7-A with Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd (As it's been established Gear 3rd > Gear 2nd time and time again), At least High 7-A with Gear 4th forms.

The description for Snake-Man should be changed to "Likely less powerful than Bound-Man", but the speed of Snake-Man is confirmed higher.
 
When Snakeman clashed fists with Katakuri he suffered like before for the Armament difference. But Boundman was attacked in the arm with Armament as well and unlike while in Base, Luffy didn't feel pain from it.

And Luffy stated that even against his Armament Boundman won't lose. So the Likely is kinda unnecessary.
 
It's basically established: Snake-Man is focused on the use of speed with elasticity, Tank-Man is focused on the use of defense and deflection with elasticity, and Bound-Man is a balance of the two and focuses the most on direct attack power, as it's seen using lesser variations of attack/defense that both SM and TM specialize in.
 
@Ercosore - Akainu was critically damaged by WB's blows. Him coming back is an attribute to Stamina, rather than Durability. It'd be more about Durability if the attack didn't damage him as much as it did, but he was left stunned for a long period before coming back to chase Jinbe. He managed to get back up from the first punch, but the second one did him in.

@Damage - I still want to talk about the possibility that both Kizaru and Akainu are capable of bypassing durability, both having vaporizing attacks. Kizaru's beams have burned straight through any target hit--not a single one (unless a haki user) has been able to block his light beams, and they always pierce straight through. Akainu vape'd WB's head with Red-Dog (if that was the attack <_<).
 
I think durability negation would be alright for Kizaru and Akainu, Akainu has more support for his durability negation however. From what I recall from the Databook, Akainu is stated to be able to burn through any material.
 
I'm not sure if vaporizing counts as Dura Negation but let's not derail this thread by now. So that'd make his AP 6-C for taking half of Newgate's head with Meigo.

Akainu still tanked the first strike and he was defeated by the second one. He's clearly below WB but he can fight back after getting hit once by a bloodlusted WB.
 
@CinCameron20 Mmm I may have to re read that part, because I dont remember Akainu being stunned for that much time or being that damaged after fighting Whitebeard, specially considering that after coming back he was able to take hits from Vista and Marco.
 
The argument for Kizaru would actually extend to the Pacifista (And Kuma), since the argument can be made for them as well. Gonna have to look at ALL Pacifista feats in the manga first before arguing this since idk if the anime made-up the Pacifista firing a beam straight into Luffy's fist, or if that was actually canon in manga.
 
Got to say vaporization attks don't qualify as dur negation. they're just energy like anything else. Also Akainu's magma had no effect on Shanks nor did Kizaru manage to bypass Silvers stats. There's no dur negation involved; Dying Whitebeard's stats just aren't near the levl of other top tiers but closer to high tiers based off feats.
 
Also we should add the Disasters to at least high 7-A. Even the Wb commanders are there with less feats and reliable scaling:

Jack scales directly to Zuu. I know Damage would say Zuu is a lot more powerful than Jack. However strictly speaking damage wise we don't see Jack being worse for wear.

Jozu and Marco on the other hand took massive/critical damage from the Admirals. If we substitute Zuu for admirals and WB commanders for Jackthere's a big difference in "tanking". Also:

King/Queen>Jack>Zuu

Vista>Marco/Jozu>Akoiji/Kuzan>Akainu>Dying WB>Prime WB>Kaido>Zuu

As you can see the WB commanders jump through a lot more hoops compared to Jack to scale to 6-C, and their standings as far a injuries go are a lot less creditable as well.

Note Greater sign is being used to show relationship, not actually greater then here.
 
Dr. Fix; Jack's ratings were already resolved as At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C, so that's why I didn't include him in the list.
 
Ok I few things from Marineford that may help us with the scalling:

Marco takes on Kizaru: A farely know one, however I would like to point out that they specify that Marco was able to resist the attack thanks to the Regenerationn, and that Marco himself called Kizaru a liar when Kizaru said the kick was effective. Kizaru was unharmed after all that.

Marco kicks Aokiji: We don´t see if that was able to damage Aokiji, however...

Aokiji vs Whitebeard: This is the next time we see Aokiji after Marco kicks him, and he seems unharmed. After that Jozu attacks, the next time we seem them is here.

Akainu firstfight with Whitebeard: Outside of the heart attack it doesnt seemed that Akainu was able to damage Whitebeard, then again it also seems like Whitebeard didnt damaged Akainu either. Also keep in mind that between the start and the end Marco got punched by Garp and Ace had a flashback, so the fight wasnt that short.

Ace blocks and attack from Aokiji: Not much to say about this one, I think this is the most effective a commander was against an admiral.

Jinbe tries to protect Ace, Marco and Vista attack Akainu: Again they dont seem to damage him, after that Marco blocks another of his attacks. Now the big one.

Whitebeard and Akainu´s second fight: A short one, Akainu takes one attack and the second one sends him down the cliff. Akainus next appearance is here, after Whitebeards dead.

Ok that was long, honestly after re reading marineford the commanders seem less impresive that I remember, outside of Jozu barely making Aokiji bleed with a sneak attack they were unable to damage them.

Regarding Whitebeard, he does seem to be above the admirals IMO, however he shouldnt be that much above them, even when he was bloodlust it doesnt seems like his second attack knocked Akainu down, he seemed consious when he fell down and was still able to fight when he reappear.
 
Dr.Fix said:
Got to say vaporization attks don't qualify as dur negation. they're just energy like anything else. Also Akainu's magma had no effect on Shanks nor did Kizaru manage to bypass Silvers stats. There's no dur negation involved; Dying Whitebeard's stats just aren't near the levl of other top tiers but closer to high tiers based off feats.
Click to expand...
>Haki Users. Negates DF powers. I already explained why Kizaru didn't slice through Rayleigh's sword.
 
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