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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #5

@Ercosore: I was already aware of all that but thank you for going through the trouble of linking all those sources for others. :)

@Cin: As Cal pointed out that would make things unnessacarily complicated.

Kizaru has dur negation and haki has anti dur-negation. Seems more straight forward that haki raises their stats and lazers/magma/etc are all just energy like an other AP feat.
 
@Fix + Cal - No, Haki by definition and numerous statements (Robin, Rayleigh, Mihawk, etc...) has been noted to negate the effects of Devil Fruits as one of its abilities for Armament. This does not mean someone who clads themself in Haki would negate something like, say, Beerus' existance erasure. They just resist/nullify the power of DF users (Logia/Paramecia attacks being circumvented, their true physical forms being struck, etc). Theoretically, a Haki user can negate Perona's negative hollow if they are strong enough.

Vergo was weaker in Haki than Law, therefore unable to nullify the effects. Doflamingo on the other hand had Haki strong enough to catch and hold Law's blade and only suffering a shallow cut to his palm. This is evidence enough since Law negates dura in his Room (Spatial cuts, and what-not).

@Ercosore - Akainu would have likely died in 1 more hit anyways if he didn't slide off and Whitebeard was able to get another punch off. And again, Whitebeard had a hole in his chest, and before the 2nd strike, part of his head missing.
 
@Damage - Also, if Law is still High 7-A, I believe it's necessary for Doflamingo Black Knight to be so, considering they fought, and also because Luffy was forced to use Gear 2nd to defeat the Black Knight (implied to be a tough fight too, especially since the finishing blow was a Jet Gatling--though perhaps the Durability doesn't scale. Maybe make a separate Key for the Black Knight...)
 
> We still have the claims from Doflamingo that Vergo's Busoshoku Haki was able to once protect himfrom even Law's spatial cutting powers, which can cut through anything since it ignore durability.

This has been proven to be false. When Vergo fought Law, Law couldn't even use his abilities.

@Cin; Luffy's Gear 2 in Dressrosa scales pretty far below High 7-A.

Law and the Black Knight have never actually fought as far as I can tell in the manga.
 
Doffy durability > Leo Bazooka >>> headbutt in G4 >>> hundreds of strings durability >>>>>>>>> tens of strings durability of Birdcage = Fujitora's meteor = powerscalling for all Yonko commanders and above.
 
Ronnijuro; you don't seriously think that Doffy is more durable than all other Yonkou Commanders, right?

Besides, the headbutt in G4 didn't destroy the strings, it shoved them away and left Doffy open to attack.

The only attack that broke the strings was the King Kong Gun.
 
The strings don't look destroyed to me; they looked they've been pushed out of the way by the force of the headbutt. Luffy even tells it to get out of his way.

We see Luffy use a Double Culverin on the Awakened strings and fail to break them. Even if this headbutt was able to break them it would be impossible for you to say that the Leo Bazooka is stronger than it.

The only attack that explicitely broke through and destroyed that the strings was the King Kong Gun.
 
Should dont we scale jozu ro Mihwak Mihawk said that he wants to see the difference between him and Whitebeard until Jozu and thanked the attack with no damage We could assume that was his best attack in MF too
 
The problem with Doffy's strings that they behave differently vs striking techniques and cutting techniques Zoro couldn't cut the BC kairos cut Black knight head I would assume the best string are his 16 bullets attack but that attack was clearly pushed by Luffy's KKG not destroyed
 
@Ttenrr, we can see the strings be visibly destroyed by the King Kong Gu .

As I suggested earlier, we should go with:

Doflamingo: At least High 7-A, likely higher with Awakening

Gear 4 Luffy: At least High 7-A, High 7-A+ with King Kong Gun

Trafalgar Law: High 7-A

This would in turn make the ratings for Cracker and Smoothie:

Cracker: At least High 7-A

Smoothie: At least High 7-A

And Katakuri can be rated as:

Katakuri: At least High 7-A, higher with Awakening

This would take care of the Big Mom Pirates.

Any objections?
 
@Damage Thanks for clarification >didn't notice that If it's scaled to Fujitora's attack then Nope I think it's ok
 
Kyros' cutting the strings is an outlier.

Furthermore, that's a typical scene of Oda to show something, in this case was to show something unexpected, a string clon.

More examples, a scene like this , why there are a row of strings inside town when the BC is clearly at the edge of the island in that mountains? Obvious, is for show the that no one normal can escape from that.

How is Doffy able to dodge a Luffy attack at so close range when previosly Luffy can blitz him from more than 100 meters. Simple, is for showing how it works the Gear 4.

Also remark that the clone didnt even defend himself, nor didnt dodge nor even tried to move. Luffy destroyed it after an unknown number of attacks, he battled the clone some time offpanel, for example. Kyros 1 slash > Luffy in speed and power? No.
 
Kyros cutting the Black Knight isn't an outlier. The obvious explanation is that the Doffy's strings vary in durability and potency depending on the technique he is using, and the Black Knight just isn't a strong technique.

Luffy was restrained when he battled both the Black Knight and Bellamy and he easily beat the Black Knight in Gear 2.
 
> Any objections?

Yes.

Like I said, " Doffy durability > Leo Bazooka >>> headbutt in G4 >>> hundreds of strings durability >>>>>>>>> tens of strings durability of Birdcage = Fujitora's meteor = powerscalling for all Yonko commanders and above. "

And Fujitora need a change in his tier, like I proved to you in the other post (what you obviously ignored cause you only need people that agrees with you) that he did nothing serious about his fights in DR, which was your argument for put him in Yonko commanders' tier. He is Admiral lvl, above Katakuri and Luffy and all commanders (Marco/Jozu debatable).

If you'll keep Fujitora in that tier, do the same thing with Kizaru who do not have a single feat comparable, in power/attack potency, even to Sai, the heck!
 
Ronnijuro; your personal insults are almost as bad as Aerozz's. If you can't be civil why even bother posting? All you're doing is encouraging me to ignore your post and only talk with people that aren't rude to me.

Kizaru has feats of harming old Whitebeard and being completely unharmed after taking an attack from Marco. His new rating as going by Cin's suggestion should be:

At least High 7-A, likely 6-C.

Fujitora should be At least High 7-A too, up to 6-C with meteors.
 
The "obvious" explanation of Doffy' strings durability is "the more = the better". The only thing for sure about the durability of his strings is that CoA strings > strings in the same quantity. The attack potency may vary cause it depends of the technique and if Doffy use his physical power too (like Athlete Thread).

The only "proof" is Kyros scene, which is inconsistent and a clear outlier, then, that's not a proof.
 
> Ronnijuro; your personal insults are almost as bad as Aerozz's. If you can't be civil why even bother posting? All you're doing is encouraging me to ignore your post and only talk with people that aren't rude to me.

There are no insults in this post, even in the other (or I dont remember). But you should stop crying whenever anyone think opposite of you.


> Kizaru has feats of harming old Whitebeard and being completely unharmed after taking an attack from Marco. His new rating as going by Cin's suggestion should be:

That's not a good feat. Like we know, Haki depends on stamina, state of mind, etc. WB was in a sorry state and Kizaru pierced him when he was distracted or when he distracted him. We don't know if WB has CoA protecting himself against Kizaru's attacks cause it was invisible preTS. We only know for sure that WB used Haki in his attacks against Akainu.

So yes, Kizaru does not have any proof of a super attack power. Downgrade him!
 
> (what you obviously ignored cause you only need people that agrees with you)

This is what I'm referring to Ronnijuro.

I'm not ignoring you because you have a different opinion to me, I'm ignoring you because you're rude and insulting.

I don't want to waste my time with you, so I'll gladly continue this discussion with the likes of Cin, Calaca, Rin, Dr. Fix and others who actually want to discuss the verse and don't insult each other or me.
 
I may be rude but I'm right about what I'm saying. That's not a reason to "ignore" the truth which I proved with evidence.

Your main, and only, argument in the other post about Fujitora was:

>2) Sabo, 2nd-in-Command of the Revolutionaries - and not stomped him

>3) Monkey D. Luffy without Gear 4 and not stomped him

Which I proved to you that is completely wrong, and you ignored. So without that argument, you have no proof to say that Fujitora is not Admiral lvl. But you still changed his tier and put him at the Yonko commanders lvl.

So yeah, "discuss" with your followers.
 
They're not my followers. We argue all the time but at least I know they can have a reasonable discussion on it.

Ronnijuro; instead me finding reasons why Fujitora is not Admiral level, what reasons do you have that Fujitora is on the same level as the original Admirals?

Not being afraid of Akainu during a phonecall doesn't count, and being referred to as a monster by Doflamingo doesn't work either.
 
-He is an Admiral. End. There is no need for more evidence in this context.

-There is no proof that he is weaker.

If there were some evidences to prove that he is not Admiral lvl, then yes. But there aren't. And he has better feats, in power, than Kizaru!!

Is Kizaru below Sai, in terms of power, cause he does not have a better feat? --> Context: we dont need any feat from Kizaru to know that he is way above Sai cause he is a ******* Admiral and there is no proof to suggest that he is weaker in terms of attack potency.
 
- Rank =/= Power Levels. Garp and Tsuru are Vice-Admirals but they are clearly stronger than the rest of the Vice Admirals. If you had a statement along the lines of 'He is an Admiral that is every bit as dangerous as the previous three Admirals' then that would be evidence.

- Burden of proof is on you prove he is as strong as them. Being powerful enough to qualify as an Admiral does not mean they have to be as strong as all previous Admirals.

Why would you suggest that Kizaru is below Sai? Kizaru's feats are better than Sai's.
 
Oda does not need to give you all chewed lol. And you dont need to remind me the exception to the rule. That example is useless here.

And where is that evidence for Kizaru = Aokiji/Akainu? We only know that Admirals, preTS, were the ultimate force of the Marine. Until the Aokiji/Akainu fight, we dont know the gap between them.

Well, then Fujitora is stronger than Kizaru cause he has better feats. Fierce tiger/meteorites >>>> destroy a giant tree.

Because open the ice land >>> destruction of that tree in Shabondy.
 
Why are you acting like Kizaru's current rating is only based on him destroying a tree?
 
"Attack Potency: Island level (Strong enough to defeat Whitebeard's Commanders without much of a problem. Contributed to some of the damage dealt to Whitebeard during the war and should be on par with other Admirals) "

-Didnt defeat anyone noticeable (Marco, Jozu, Vista, Ace). Piercing Marco who was distracted and use Kairoseki with the help of Onigumo =/= defeat Marco.

-Piercing WB with lasers is not a proof if we dont know if WB used CoA protecting himself. Viceadmirals and Rear admirals can do that too against a WB without CoA. The point of piercing/cutting attacks in OP is if those attacks deal some significant damage. If not, is not something relevant. For Oda a normal bullet, round shape, is something which can pierce in the same way than a Mr.1 attacks for example.

-"Should be on par with other Admirals". The same you can say about Fujitora lol!!!
 
It sounds like I have to care about your opinion about me xd. Don't waste your time my friend.

Obviously, about the discussion here you can contribute your bit (you may express your opinion about me too) and if you think that I was wrong in something, prove it.
 
Also to clarify the Black Knight did fight Law Doffy summons it on his throne and they exchange blows for a bit
 
Ah right, from what I can tell the Black Knight just repeatedly attacks Law and Law blocks it all with his sword. He doesn't seem to hit back once. Not enough to say that Black Knight has comparable stats with Law.

Let's focus on what the Whitebeard Comamnders should be rated as.

Assuming we put the Admirals as: At least High 7-A, likely 6-C.
 
Well i was thinking since the main commanders can give admirals a fight but are obviously weaker we could give them at least High 7-A possibly 6-C (or maybe likely higher)

Jozus durablity should be 6-C ay any rate
 
Alright, so:

Marco: At least High 7-A, likely 6-C

Ace: At least High 7-A, likely 6-C

Jozu: At least High 7-A, likely 6-C (with 6-C durability)

Vista: At least High 7-A, likely 6-C

And that should be it for Whitebeard Commanders?

Also, we should delete Doma's profile I believe. His profile and Roger's are very unnecessary.
 
Agreed.

Doma, Roger, Squard and Dragon are all unnecessary profiles (for right now at least). Profiles don't need to exist for every character in the series.
 
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