One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #2

[The_Calaca]

I think the scan you're talking about is this.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

That's the one, thank you.

 

[Phoenix821]

Maybe someone should make a blog containing all the evidence for OP Earth being bigger then the Earth?

 

[The_Calaca]

I'll try to do it.

 

[Gianglebatruong]

Yeah, Planet size needs to be evaluated. It is not likely Oda will reveal some thing like that.

 

[1997KD]

Maybe someone should make a blog containing all the evidence for OP Earth being bigger than the Earth?

We need to mention how big op earth is, otherwise it's just a waste of timr

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

One Piece seems to be nearing it's final stretch. We can keep using Earth size until then. And to those who are wondering, yes I agree that it is obvious that OP has a much bigger planet than the actual earth ( I personally believe it to be around Toriko sized, maybe a little larger or smaller). But, if you keep trying to calc planet size, it can and will be refuted and then another verse revision will occur. Let's play it safe for now and go with the absolute lowest possibility.

 

[Stefano4444]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Stefano4444/Luffy_Disperse_Raigo

 

[Damage3245]

Just a note on scaling regarding that, from the looks it that's from a Gatling type attack making the dispersal the result of numerous rapid-fire attacks amplified by the Golden Ball on his arm.

Which is kind of support by Luffy's finisher on Enel being at least Small Town level which is just a single straight-forward punch with the Golden Ball.

 

[Stefano4444]

Just a note on scaling regarding that, from the looks it that's from a Gatling type attack making the dispersal the result of numerous rapid-fire attacks amplified by the Golden Ball on his arm.

The Golden Ball was only used in eliminating the electricity inside the Raigo and destabilize it, it has nothing to do with its physical dispersion along with all the other clouds created by the Ark Maxim.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I imagine his fist having a much larger surface area thanks to the Golden Ball would aid in the dispersion a bit.

 

[Stefano4444]

Well, I imagine his fist having a much larger surface area thanks to the Golden Ball would aid in the dispersion a bit.

I doubt it would be such big difference, just eliminating the electricity wouldn't automatically make the clouds disappear or make them more easily to destroy than normal.

 

[Damage3245]

Unless the only reason the clouds were held together the way they were was because of Enel's electricity inside it; once the electricity was conducted away, there was nothing to hold it in that spherical shape.

Maybe I'm just speculating a bit here, but it's weird in the first place that Enel's DF lets him control clouds. Luffy's disperson of the clouds could be a combination of his own attack, and the fact that Enel can't control that Raigo anymore. *shrug*

 

[Stefano4444]

Unless the only reason the clouds were held together the way they were was because of Enel's electricity inside it; once the electricity was conducted away, there was nothing to hold it in that spherical shape.

Then they wouldn't have violently disperded like we see happening in the scene, they would have slowly disappear which would have take minutes if not more than a hour.

Maybe I'm just speculating a bit here, but it's weird in the first place that Enel's DF lets him control clouds. Luffy's disperson of the clouds could be a combination of his own attack, and the fact that Enel can't control that Raigo anymore. *shrug*

Those clouds weren't natural, they were made by the combination of Enel's DF and Ark Maxim's chemical vats, meaning Enel was likely able to control them like with his lightning.

Which is proven by how both Raigo were made by his own will and he could control them as he wish, he didn't use any remote control from the Ark Maxim to do so.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Would this scale to Luffy or?

 

[Stefano4444]

Would this scale to Luffy or?

Who do you think it should scale, to God Usopp?

Obviously it scale to Luffy along with Zoro, Sanji, Enel, Ohm, Wyper since are overall comparable and that they have all fought each other.

And to a degree Gan Fall and Nico Robin should scale as well.

 

[Damage3245]

Isn't the reason why this doesn't scale the same reason why the Gum-Gum Storm doesn't scale? It was done in a barrage of attacks, not just one punch.

And there rest of the Skypeia calcs are consistently lower than that result.

 

[Stefano4444]

Isn't the reason why this doesn't scale the same reason why the Gum-Gum Storm doesn't scale? It was done in a barrage of attacks, not just one punch.

The Gum-Gum Storm had be used to scale Luffy's AP before and other similar attacks had been used before for scale characters's AP, i do not remember this be a standard procedure when calculating AP.

Also, what make you think that Luffy can only be Large Town level via barrage of attacks and not by using one single powerful strike?

And there rest of the Skypeia calcs are consistently lower than that result.

Enel had two feas that are close to High 7-C, one where he vaporize a tree which have been calc to be Town level+ while the other is this which range between Small Town level to fully Large Town level.

Also there is still Crocodile's Sandstorm (which is going to be either Town level+ or Large Town level, if my Alubarna's calc is accepted) and Luffy's Amazon Lily massive rock destruction (that has to be calculated) to be taken intro account.

Verses had be upgraded for much less, i don't see why with One Piece we should had such high standard.

 

[Damage3245]

> Verses had be upgraded for much less feats, i don't see why with One Piece we should had such high standard.

I don't see why you need to keep bringing other verses into this.

All verses should have reasonable standards.

> Also, what make you think that Luffy can only be Large Town level via barrage of attacks and not by using one single powerful strike.

Well, the fact that it took a barrage of attacks to seemingly disperse the cloud while he has the Golden Ball attached would lead me to think that.

We'll take it into consideration, but we need to look at it in the context of the whole thing before just applying it to everyone in the arc.

EDIT: On a side note, we have 121 profiles to decide the ratings of. I've just finished making the list of every canon character that would be affected by the changes. I'm now going go through estimate ratings to that list as best I can.

 

[Cmue0312]

So are we deciding the scaling for the entire series or just post-timeskip?

 

[Damage3245]

So are we deciding the scaling for the entire series or just post-timeskip?

The entire series from the Alabasta Saga onwards.

 

[The_Calaca]

Isn't the reason why this doesn't scale the same reason why the Gum-Gum Storm doesn't scale? It was done in a barrage of attacks, not just one punch.
And there rest of the Skypeia calcs are consistently lower than that result.

Toriko has a separate rating for Combination Attacks. Luffy had the same before and I don't know why isn't like that.

There's an El Thor with nearly 100KT. This being higher than 2x that result is consistent since that is Enel's spammable attack.

Also Luffy did this with one hand and Enel himself tanked the Octopus Gattling before which is a two-handed barrage.

We need to measure all verses under the same rule. Damage, if you think that we need to be more strict with all verses then go say that to the other verses Knowledgeable Members because we're lowballing One Piece while the other verses play with high and midballs.

Right now Large Town Level is consistent enough to say this is correct. If Stefano's Crocodile calc is correct then there wouldn't be enough arguments to debunk it since we have plenty of feats at that level:

• Luffy dispersing Raigo.

• Enel's El Thor.

• Possibly Kuma's Ursus Shock.

• Crocodile's Sand Storm.

All of them coming from powerful characters. It's not like some verses who scale all the characters from what a fodder did in one single calc. In comparison we have two feats below that level (Golden Rifle and Reject Dial) which at most could prove that there's a difference between some attacks and some characters's AP and Dura.

 

[Damage3245]

> We need to measure all verses under the same rule. Damage, if you think that we need to be more strict with all verses then go say that to the other verses Knowledgeable Members because we're lowballing One Piece while the other verses play with high and midballs.

If I had an infinite amount of time and interest in other series, I absolutely would.

Lowballing is usually the safest bet. Highballing led to ratings in the past like Country level+ Luffy or Continent level Whitebeard.

I'm not saying Large Town level is completely incorrect or that it can't be applied, I'm saying that context is important.

Funnily enough if you divide the end result of 169.981 Kilotons by 18 (the number of Golden Balls visible when Luffy does his attack), you get 9.44 Kilotons [Town level]. That's surprisingly consistent with the many Town level calcs in Skypeia.

So I consider Luffy during the Skypeia Saga to be Town level.

In the Alabasta Saga he was Multi-City block level.

And by the Thriller Bark Saga or later he'll likely be Large Town level.

 

[The_Calaca]

You don't need to. Just go to general discussion, open a staff discussion and drop the subject.

The keys are Arabasta to Water Seven and Enies Lobby to Marineford so we scale the highest calced feat to all of them for the sake of simplicity. I don't want to get Luffy with 15 keys to the end of the series.

Lowballing for the sake of consistency isn't correct if we have 4 feats at possibly Large Town Level against two feats at Town Level.

 

[Damage3245]

I wasn't thinking about it in terms of the current keys, I was just analyzing it saga by saga.

If we look at the progression of sagas as:

East Blue Saga: At least Large Building level

Alabasta Saga: Multi-City Block level

Skypeia Saga: Town level

Thriller Bark Saga: Large Town level

Etc.

It seems like a more consistent chain of progression / powerscaling.

But you're obviously right that if we go with Arabasta to Water Seven key, then we don't need to list his Alabasta Saga rating.

If necessary you could even divide Luffy's profile between Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip. Other characters have divided profiles like that.

I'm just considering it in terms of scaling other characters. I wouldn't, for example be alright with rating Daz Bones as Large Town level based on Luffy's feat in the Skypeia Saga.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm not sure if making two/three keys for Luffy and the Monster Trio is correct. Aside from the other characters they've shown a direct power boost between arcs so mixing them into Pre and Post Timeskip would be a mess.

You're right about that tho. We need to get the correct ratings for other characters.

In my opinion who directly scales to Luffy (Arabasta to Water Seven) are Enel and Crocodile. Remember that Enel was conscious that same night when he was going to the moon and he wasn't that injured. And by some extension but below him, Zoro and therefore Sanji.

Going by consistency Large Town Level is more correct for Arabasta to Water Seven keys but only the top tiers'd scale to them (Enel, Crocodile, Luffy, Zoro and Sanji and arguably Mr. 1 and 2).

I don't know why is the Reject Dial a thing tho. Those blasts bypass durability and thinking that Enel got nearly killed by it it's not a proof that he's that weak. His internal organs aren't that strong in any case.

And without the RD there's only the Golden Rifle screaming inconsistency against feats far above that because Enel's El Thor have two results, one being consistent with the GR and the other being consistent with the rest of the feats.

 

[Damage3245]

Just because the key is 'Alabasta to Water Seven' doesn't mean that the Luffy in Water 7 Arc is as strong as the Luffy in the Alabasta Arc. There isn't a reason to directly scale Crocodile to Luffy's feat from the end of the Skypeia Arc.

Instead, Luffy from the Alabasta Saga should scale from Crocodile's Multi-City Block feat which Luffy overpowered.

The Reject Dial does do some damage besides bypassing the durability. IIRC it was calced to be Town level, and so was one of the Enel's attacks. And Wiper's Burn Bazooka was Town level, or Small Town level too.

 

[The_Calaca]

We need Crocodile's Sand Storm first. Right now, yeah, he's 8-A but we need to know more about other feats.

The Burn Bazooka did nothing. It was something irrelevant. And again, the Reject Dial bypass durability even if it does some external damage. Enel wasn't half-dead just because the blast made a hole in his chest but cause his heart was stopped. Arguing Town Level just because RD bypass durability it's like scaling all the characters to Law's 5GT using hax.

 

[Damage3245]

If we look at it from the perspective of the dispersal being the result of multiple punches (as it appears to be) then Luffy's AP from an ordinary attack would be Town level.

I should have a list of all the Alabasta Saga & Skypeia Saga profiles estimated by tomorrow. If those are deemed acceptable, we can move on to the next batch and go through it chunk by chunk.

 

[The_Calaca]

Toriko has a separated rating to Combination Attacks. I don't know why is Luffy any different. That's how we make things here. FT also relies on a feat that Natsu did with a barrage of attacks.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Calaca

There is no such feat that is reliable for scaling in FT as far as I know.


Having said that, neutral on this for now.

 

[The_Calaca]

IIRC it was Natsu destroying a building but I don't know beyond that.

 

[Ugarik]

Kind of of topic but I think OP planet should presumably be Neptune sized. Since it has 7 moons and it's atmosphere is incredebly thick

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Natsu had a feat that was a barrage attack, but it was decided that we shouldn't use it because it was a flurry of blows, not just one big one

 

[The_Calaca]

Alright. I don't know if it's the same feat.

Either way Toriko is still listed above his regular AP with CA. It's the same case here. We could say Luffy is 7-C with regular attacks and High 7-C with Rapid-Fire techniques.

 

[Ugarik]

Can anyone explain why fujitora AP calced only for a single meteor since he summoned all 6 of them in one move

 

[Damage3245]

Can anyone explain why fujitora AP calced only for a single meteor since he summoned all 6 of them in one move

It's a calc for the largest meteor.

Each of the other ones would be less powerful than it.

> Either way Toriko is still listed above his regular AP with CA. It's the same case here. We could say Luffy is 7-C with regular attacks and High 7-C with Rapid-Fire techniques.

Sure, that's totally fine.

I'll modify the description I've got for him on my sandbox to take that into account.

 

[Ugarik]

That's the point. Why does this calc only includes the largest meteor. It should be combined energy of all 6 meteors since Fujitora summoned all of them in one move

 

[Damage3245]

That's the point. Why does this calc only includes the largest meteor. It should be combined energy of all 6 meteors since Fujitora summoned all of them in one move

The calc isn't for the amount of energy required to pull down the meteors, it's for how much damage the kinetic energy of the meteors will have.

In this case, we don't know if he pulled them all down at once, or if he pulled down six in a row. I don't think we saw him pulling them down, so it's impossible to say he did it in a single move.

 

[Dr.Fix]

>The calc isn't for the amount of energy required to pull down the meteors, it's for how much damage the kinetic energy of the meteors will have.

Still it would be nice to have the former as opposed to the latter. then we would have Fugi's actul energy value as opposed to ED.