One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #2

[Damage3245]

I'm actually talking about what you said about Luffy's regular punches being Town level after dividing the Raigo's feat by 18 which would be the same as stacking the four DS to make the DLS.
18 Town Level attacks doesn't make a Large Town Level attack.

Well, you're probably right but at the same time it is true that a barrage of attacks would be more powerful than just a single punch.

Let's roll with Crocodile and Luffy in the Alabasta Saga being 8-A and see how it works out for the scaling of the series. I think it would be a lot more consistent than making everyone that early on Small City level.

 

[The_Calaca]

If this is what you're talking about I said it isn't valid already.

@Damage

Let them at 8-A by now but if some other feats prove Crocodile's feat as not outlier then we should keep it.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright. I'll update (on my sandbox), Mr 1., Mr. 2, Alabasta Saga Zoro, Luffy and Sanji. As they're the ones that scale to this.

Anyone else?

 

[The_Calaca]

If Mr. 4's explosion radius is correct then everyone would scale to 8-A at least above baseline.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm guessing that calc hasn't been evaluated yet? Can we get someone to check that out?

 

[Ugarik]

Alright. I'll update (on my sandbox), Mr 1., Mr. 2, Alabasta Saga Zoro, Luffy and Sanji. As they're the ones that scale to this.
Anyone else?

Their lifting strength should be class M btw

 

[The_Calaca]

We've plenty of calcs that needs to get evaluated or redone for Pre TS.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Crocodile's sandstorm is probably the classic definition of an outlier. It's way above everything else in the series at that time, and thus would badly affect the scaling. Even his own typical attacks are below it.

The only reason why it's so impressive is simply because it is a large sandstorm... it has no destructive value. Applying the kinetic energy of the sandstorm to his regular attacks, without any supporting evidence that his regular attacks are that strong, is pointless.

It'd be one thing if Crocodile gathered the entire sandstorm together and used it to attack someone, but that isn't what's happening. It's not his regular Attack Potency.

Honestly though, was it? I mean, we have Crocodile later on clashing with Doflamingo and Mihawk, who both should be able to give Crocodile the fodder treatment. Plus, it would explain the seemingly huge gap in power levels between Alabasta and Skypiea with Enel. Also, when you guys are done evaluating Alabasta, can you take a look at Skypiea (and I don't mean labeling every feat as outlier). There are a lot of calcs that need to be done or redone that are ignored.

 

[The_Calaca]

That's exactly what we're doing right now. Claiming that every feat is an outlier doesn't help us at all.

 

[Damage3245]

Honestly though, was it? I mean, we have Crocodile later on clashing with Doflamingo and Mihawk, who both should be able to give Crocodile the fodder treatment. Plus, it would explain the seemingly huge gap in power levels between Alabasta and Skypiea with Enel. Also, when you guys are done evaluating Alabasta, can you take a look at Skypiea (and I don't mean labeling every feat as outlier). There are a lot of calcs that need to be done or redone that are ignored.

Crocodile's strength was soft-retconned essentially to make him more powerful by the Impel Down Arc.

It makes no sense for Alabasta Saga Luffy to beat someone who can clash with the likes of Doflamingo, Jozu and Mihawk.

Simple solutions are either;

1) Scale nobody from the Alabasta Arc to Crocodile and rate Crocodile as Small City level.

2) Have Crocodile have two keys; one for Alabasta Saga, and one for Impel Down Saga onwards.

 

[Ugarik]

I agree that striking strength and durability shouldn't scale from storm feats since storm is not an attack one can use in combat

 

[The_Calaca]

AFAIK we do scale characters from storm feats.

 

[Js250476]

Looks at RWBY and Infamous

 

[Ugarik]

Looks at RWBY and Infamous

InFamous might be justified but rwby High 7-C scaling is complete bs to me

 

[The_Calaca]

Those are just two examples. There're plenty of verses with storm feats perfectly scalable.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

@Damage Did you know you placed the names that start with R under the names that start with S in your sandbox?

And wouldn't Alabasta Saga Robin also be Multi-City Block level? She was arguably stronger than Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 (imo, she was stronger than Clay without a doubt), handled Pre and Post-Alabasta Zoro and Pre-Alabasta Sanji like fodder, ducked a strike from Crocodile who serious about killing her, and survived and recovered in a short span of time from being stabbed with Crocodile's hook.

 

[The_Calaca]

Even if she's stronger than both of them that wouldn't make she worthy of having an Alabasta key. Pre TS and Post TS is all she needs.

But we might use those things you said to get her a proper rating.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Sorry for not being clearer, Calaca, but I did mention all those things to help ensure Robin gets a proper rating. I agree that Pre and Post TS keys are all she needs right now.

 

[Damage3245]

> @Damage Did you know you placed the names that start with R under the names that start with S in your sandbox?

I didn't realize that. Thanks.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Damage I agree with you. I was only disputing it being "the classic definition of an outlier". But I agree with the second key. But also, just another thing that is never talked about in regards to Crocodile, his stopping the rain feat. As soon as he was knocked unconscious, the rain returned leading me to believe that Crocodile may have been using his power to hold back the rain. This would explain why he is stronger at Marineford as he no longer had to use his power to keep it from raining.

 

[Js250476]

IIRC in that instance the rain came back because Smoker used the Dance Powder

 

[Damage3245]

Yah, I may need to re-read it but I don't think Crocodile was only using his own power.

 

[KobsterHope07]

this chapter makes it pretty clear that it was Crocodile's defeat that brought back the rain. The transition from Crocodile surrounded by whirling sand which slowly dissipates and shifting to raindrops falling on the island is a pretty strong visual clue. Admittedly, there's no solid proof either way, but further evidence:

Reasons why I think it's Croc:

• We know for a fact he can manipulate his Devil Fruit on a level we don't really see again until Aokiji (imo Enel doesn't count since he had to rely on an outside source of power to amplify it, similar to Caesar, whereas people like Crocodile and Aokiiji can do it no sweat). He casually makes sandstorms that ravage entire villages without even trying very hard.
• He's not the kind of guy to rely on luck. Knowing he has the ability to create island-effecting sandstorms & absorb moisture, it's not a huge leap to think that he was creating the drought himself (iirc, they even say it's being cause by wind currents around the island, and what do we see causing the wind to behave like that above the island? That's right, a giant sandstorm-like effect.)

Reasons why I don't think it's Dance Powder:

• I personally didn't see Smoker as being sarcastic. Standoffish, sure, but that's pretty much his default state of being. Regardless, the point he made about using it not only going against teh king's wishes, but actively harming the island (it'd just bring further misery down the line) are valid, and I think he's smart enough to realize that.
• If it was Smokey using Dance Powder, that means that it took effect at just the same moment Crocodile was defeated and the war needed to be stopped (from a narrative standpoint; obviously it needed to be stopped well before that in-universe), which is pretty contrived tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

You may be right, but it is definitely ambiguous and seems to suggest Smoker had a role in it.

 

[The_Calaca]

I personally find that as Smoker's work rather than Crocodile's powers.

 

[Damage3245]

I small note, I originally thought nobody scaled to the Burn Bazooka (Low 7-C) either, but it turns out Enel deflected the Burn Bazooka shot at him by Wiper so that's a supporting feat that I've added on my sandbox.

 

[Stefano4444]

Crocodile has already two keys in his profile, one for Alabasta Arc and one for Marineford Arc, so the 2nd option is already in place.

 

[Damage3245]

Crocodile has already two keys in his profile, one for Alabasta Arc and one for Marineford Arc, so the 2nd option is already in place.

Yeah, I think we should keep it like that for his profile.

 

[Stefano4444]

I personally find that as Smoker's work rather than Crocodile's powers.

Didn't Crocodile admit to Vivi that he was the responsable of Alabasta's drougth? Meaning his defeat was necessary for the rain to return.

Still, i don't this feat can be used to scale Crocodile's standard AP, at difference of the Sandstorm the drougth was done overtime.

 

[Damage3245]

> Didn't Crocodile admit to Vivi that he was the responsable of Alabasta's drougth? Meaning his defeat was necessary for the rain to return.

Wasn't that the reason why Crocodile had a ship with Dance Powder on it? If he used the Dance Powder to cause the drought, then he would be responsible for it even if it wasn't through his own power.

 

[Stefano4444]

Wasn't that the reason why Crocodile had a ship with Dance Powder on it? If he used the Dance Powder to cause the drought, then he would be responsible for it even if it wasn't through his own power.

I thougth the Dance Power has been brought on Alabasta on purpose to make everyone think Cobra was the responsable of the drougth and take all the blame.

 

[Js250476]

Having read Alabasta semi recently i can confirm it is true 2 years ago Croc had snuck Dance Power in to make it look like the King was responsible for the drought and Alburna's adnormally abundant rain.

 

[The_Calaca]

If somebody post the scans with the whole context that'd be greatly helpful.

In any case that'd scale to his dehydration abilities rather than AP I guess.

 

[Damage3245]

I was under the impression that Crocodile's dehydration only worked through physical contact. I don't recall Crocodile ever saying he stopped the rain through his own power.

Also, I'm getting the Water 7 / Enies Lobby profiles tonight in determining the scaling.

I think that a lot of the profiles will be At least Town level with higher in some cases.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I mean, assuming hypothetically Croc did have this ability, what would the fall out be? Would the calc make him and other characters too powerful (Outlier) or would it fall within the parameters of him being a warlord?

 

[The_Calaca]

There's a theory saying that Logia's Awakening is what affects the enviroment but it's a theory so it can't be used.

Anyway, I'm still thinking that we need to get all of the calcs evaluated before making the ratings in order to not undo what is done. It saves time and effort.

 

[Damage3245]

Which calcs in particular are left to be evaluated?

And some ratings can be figured out currently. This is what I have for Wiper:

Attack Potency: Low Town level with Burn Bazooka (Burn Bazooka is this powerful), Town level with Reject Dial (Able to blast apart Giant Jack's trunk)

Durability: Town level (Survived multiple lightning attacks from Enel)

 

[The_Calaca]

Alubarna's size and with it the Desert Spada and the Sandstorm. Luffy dispersing Raigo and some others.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think the Desert Spada should be affected by that calc. The current Desert Spada calc uses pixelscaling but with the actual characters and the way that the building is drawn to get the distances.

Trying to calculate the size of the square then applying that to the building wouldn't work when the way the building is drawn during their fight is clearly not 1600+ meters wide & over a kilometer tall.

 

[The_Calaca]

Not sure but I still thinking we need to get all the calcs evaluated before making any rating.