One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #2

[Ugarik]

That's the point. Why does this calc only includes the largest meteor. It should be combined energy of all 6 meteors since Fujitora summoned all of them in one move

The calc isn't for the amount of energy required to pull down the meteors, it's for how much damage the kinetic energy of the meteors will have.
In this case, we don't know if he pulled them all down at once, or if he pulled down six in a row. I don't think we saw him pulling them down, so it's impossible to say he did it in a single move.

He most likely pulled all of them at once as they were moving really close to earch other it one direction at the same speed.

 

[Damage3245]

Same effect would happen if he just rapid-fire summoned the meteors.

Hey Ugarik, would you be able to calc Moria splitting part of the land of Thriller Bark? Since you did the Chinjao splitting calc.

 

[Ugarik]

Not really. In that case the meteors would be moving from different directions. Even if he pulled them from a single group of meteors one by one the distance between them would be much higher.

 

[Stefano4444]

If we look at it from the perspective of the dispersal being the result of multiple punches (as it appears to be) then Luffy's AP from an ordinary attack would be Town level.

If we going to be more accurate, most of the barrage has been used in weakening the Raigo rather than destroy it, is not like the power behind the barrage of attacks was accumulating over time, the attack instead has been spend in eliminating the electricity inside the Raigo.

Meaning Luffy didn't necessarely destroy the Raigo via a barrage of attacks, rather he could have done it with one strike at while the rest have been spend in take away power from the Raigo.

 

[Stefano4444]

We need Crocodile's Sand Storm first. Right now, yeah, he's 8-A but we need to know more about other feats.

For doing so my Alubarna calc need to be accepted, unless it happen then we either recalc the entire city or remain with Cin's version instead.

 

[Damage3245]

My current thoughts for Crocodile's first key is this:

Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level normally (His Desert Spada is capable of pulverizing a large area of ground, up to Small City level (Can generate sand-storms of this magnitude from the palm of his hand), can also ignore conventional durability to an extent through dehydration and poison

Durability: At least Multi-City Block level (He can withstand blows from Alabasta Saga Luffy who strong enough to overpower his attacks)

We can effectively ignore the outlier by not scaling it to anyone. This would mean that Lufy, Zoro, Sanji, Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 would all be Multi-City Block level as of that saga.

Regarding keys, I'm currently thinking we divide up Luffy's profile into Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip and only have keys for the sagas where Luffy undergoes a noticeable increase in power.

 

[Stefano4444]

Regarding keys, I'm currently thinking we divide up Luffy's profile into Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip and only have keys for the sagas where Luffy undergoes a noticeable increase in power.

This is already in place, its the reason why Alabasta Saga and Skypiea Saga coexist in the same key in Luffy's profile.

But i agree that we should divide Luffy's profile between Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip so to have not too much stuff.

And the same with Zoro, Sanji, Usopp and Nami.

I'm uncertain with Robin and Chopper since they have appears much later and had much less power boosts.

While Franky and Brook's profiles don't need to be divided as they have arrive at the end of the Pre-Timekip and they didn't get any noticeable increase of power.

 

[Damage3245]

I think it's fine to keep Robin, Chopper, Franky and Brook as single profiles.

Luffy's first profile should go like this:

East Blue Saga | Alabasta Saga | Skypeia Saga | Water 7 Saga | Paramount War Saga

And his post-timeskip profile:

Dressrosa Saga | Whole Cake Island Saga

And possibly a third key for Wano when he gets a power increase there.

This is just provisional of course, I'll try and devise ratings for each key, and that'd be useful for scaling a bunch of characters.

 

[Stefano4444]

Luffy's first profile should go like this:

East Blue Saga | Alabasta Saga | Skypeia Saga | Water 7 Saga | Paramount War Saga

And his post-timeskip profile:

Dressrosa Saga | Whole Cake Island Saga

Thriller Bark Saga should be added as well.

 

[Damage3245]

I think we can count Thriller Bark, Sabaoby Archipelago, Impel Down and Marineford together since I don't think Luffy gets notably stronger since then - but if there's something in his feats suggesting he does then I'll add it.

 

[Ugarik]

Hey Ugarik, would you be able to calc Moria splitting part of the land of Thriller Bark? Since you did the Chinjao splitting calc.

No because there's no way to find velocity to calculate KE

 

[Damage3245]

What about Moria's current calc which puts it at Town level?

 

[Stefano4444]

No because there's no way to find velocity to calculate KE

You could use the rocks that were falling from the air for the timeframe, just like it was done with Piccolo's moon busting feat.

https://s1.********.org/data/c203a5fd3de9e11069209b197fdaf69e/x15.png

https://s1.********.org/data/c203a5fd3de9e11069209b197fdaf69e/x16.png

 

[Ugarik]

What about Moria's current calc which puts it at Town level?

It is wrong. I don't think dest destruction values can be used it this case. Actually I need to see this feat again may be I'll find the way to calc it

 

[Ugarik]

Okay I think I can calc it. Is it okay to use 3092 m as Thrilled Bark diameter?

 

[The_Calaca]

I think it's fine to keep Robin, Chopper, Franky and Brook as single profiles.
Luffy's first profile should go like this:

East Blue Saga | Alabasta Saga | Skypeia Saga | Water 7 Saga | Paramount War Saga

And his post-timeskip profile:

Dressrosa Saga | Whole Cake Island Saga

Robin, Chopper, Brook and Franky should keep two keys since all of them gained new abilities during the Time Skip.

Will Dressrosa Saga key include Fishman Island?

>What about Moria's current calc which puts it at Town level?

If my calc about Thriller Bark gets accepted that'd be recalced aswell.

@Ugarik

IMO it's the safest option. Using some angsizing in some panel suggest an at least 2.7km radius. But if you want to use 3092m as diameter instead of radius then it's fine. IIRC Moriah's HQ was installed in the center of the island.

 

[Stefano4444]

I have recalc my calc of Luffy Raigo's feat, now the High End is Small City level.

 

[Damage3245]

> Robin, Chopper, Brook and Franky should keep two keys since all of them gained new abilities during the Time Skip.

Yeah, they'd have multiple keys but not multiple profiles.

 

[The_Calaca]

But they already have one profile each. I don't understand what are you talking about.

 

[Damage3245]

Stefano and I have been discussing splitting up Luffy's profile (and possibly a couple others) into multiple profiles, to avoid having two many keys and stopping the profiles from becoming too long.

For example, Luffy's first profile would be for Pre-Timeskip, and Luffy's second profile would be for Post-Timeskip. (With a 3rd already-existing profile for Nightmare Luffy as it turns out).

 

[The_Calaca]

Hm... it's a good idea but I think we should finish the discussion about the tiering because if we conclude that we don't need too many keys then we wouldn't need to split profiles.

 

[Damage3245]

Fair enough. What are your thoughts on this for Crocodile's first key?

Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level normally (His Desert Spada is capable of pulverizing a large area of ground), up to Small City level (Can generate sand-storms of this magnitude from the palm of his hand), can also ignore conventional durability to an extent through dehydration and poison

Durability: At least Multi-City Block level (He can withstand blows from Alabasta Saga Luffy who strong enough to overpower his attacks)


Settling this would help settle a bunch of characters from that saga onwards.

 

[The_Calaca]

It's safe. His Desert Spada might be recalced tho if Stefano's calc is accepted but I don't think it will be Small Town even then.

BTW we do have some feats for Mr. 1 that could help.

 

[Damage3245]

Oh, we do? It's been so long that I don't even remember Mr. 1 doing anything impressive.

 

[The_Calaca]

This is what I found:

• Cutting buildings just for the clash with Zoro's swords.

• Cutting the stone pillar.

• Atomic Dicer.

All of this is casual and the first two happened after clashing with Zoro so it's collateral damage.

 

[Stefano4444]

I'm going to be frank, i do not see reasons why his sandstorm do not scale Crocodile's standard AP.

This is not like Doffy's Birdcage where it should be treated as a special technique that cannot be compare the others (with likely the exception of Awakening's techniques), Crocodile's case is not even a technique at all, it just a random sandstorm that he just created during the moment to make harder for everyone to stop the fight, it doesn't even had a name.

And because Crocodile's attacks are based on the same Devil Fruit ability used to make the sandstorm, other that he has show to put much more effort in techniques like Desert Spada or the Pesado compare with the sandstorm, there is no logical reason to assume the sandstorm cannot scale Crocodile standard AP.

 

[Stefano4444]

It's safe. His Desert Spada might be recalced tho if Stefano's calc is accepted but I don't think it will be Small Town even then.

Actually if my calc is accepted then the deep cut made by the Desert Sparda would be increased to nearly 10 times over.

 

[Damage3245]

Crocodile's sandstorm is probably the classic definition of an outlier. It's way above everything else in the series at that time, and thus would badly affect the scaling. Even his own typical attacks are below it.

The only reason why it's so impressive is simply because it is a large sandstorm... it has no destructive value. Applying the kinetic energy of the sandstorm to his regular attacks, without any supporting evidence that his regular attacks are that strong, is pointless.

It'd be one thing if Crocodile gathered the entire sandstorm together and used it to attack someone, but that isn't what's happening. It's not his regular Attack Potency.

 

[Ugarik]

Probably the worst calc I have ever made but here it is https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ugarik/Moriah's_'Island_Splitter'

 

[Damage3245]

Actually if my calc is accepted then the deep cut made by the Desert Sparda would be increased to nearly 10 times over.

I think that the original calc wouldn't be affected by your calc for the city square.

The original calc uses the distances from the panel itself where the feat happens.

If you're going to suggest that the distance the Desert Sparda cut was actually something like 1.5 kilometers, that'd be laughable. It's clearly nowhere near that big on the actual panels.

 

[The_Calaca]

Do you used the Low End?

What would be if you use Mid End?

 

[Stefano4444]

If you're going to suggest that the distance the Desert Sparda cut was actually something like 1.5 kilometers, that'd be laughable. It's clearly nowhere near that big on the actual panels.

Acutally i did made a quick scale to see what i go and the result was 844.05797 m.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, the original calc used a length of 195.4 m using the way that the building is actually drawn. Seems to be more accurate to me personally.

 

[Stefano4444]

Crocodile's sandstorm is probably the classic definition of an outlier. It's way above everything else in the series at that time, and thus would badly affect the scaling. Even his own typical attacks are below it.

With Enel's El Thor, Moria splitting Thriller Bark, Kuma's Ursus Shock and Luffy disperding the Raigo, Crocodile's Sandstorm seen to be consistent with the power progression in the Pre Timeskip.

And it isn't necessarely an outlier Crocodile at that time was the strongest villan Luffy ever faced and the first Shichibukai in the series, he was even capable to affecting the climate of Alabasta making impossible to rain, showing a level of power greater than any other villain had demostrate before.

And for his attacks are less impressive it simply ignoring standards we had assumed before like AoE fallacy, Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Storm had be calc to be 8-A, but it was able to overpower 4 Desert Sparda, where a single one had be calc to be Low 7-C, so by your logic the Desert Sparda's calc should be an outlier.

 

[Damage3245]

> but it was able to overpower 4 Desert Sparda, where a single one had be calc to be Low 7-C

Desert Sparda was calced to be 8-A though?

 

[The_Calaca]

Something I was gonna said before but I forgot is that if we can't multiply the Desert Spada by 4 to get Desert La Spada's AP then we shouldn't make the inverse for Luffy when he dispersed the Raigo dividing the AP.

 

[Stefano4444]

> but it was able to overpower 4 Desert Sparda, where a single one had be calc to be Low 7-C
Desert Sparda was calced to be 8-A though?

Right, the Low 7-C was for the 4 Desert Sparda together, but my point stand.

If we assuming Luffy's Gomu Gomu Storm's AP by considering only the DC show and nothing else, then logically the 4 Desert Sparda cannot be Low 7-C or Luffy's Gomu Gomu Storm cannot be 8-A, despire both calcs are correct.

 

[Damage3245]

Calaca, we see Luffy punching one of the four Desert Spada and overpowering it. That would make it Luffy overpowering a Multi-City block attack four times at best with his Gum-Gum Storm (which is a huge barrage of punches).

So, at best from that, what we can say is:


Luffy's punch > Desert Spada

Barrage of Luffy's punches > 4 Desert Spada.

Stefano, did you say that his Gum-Gum Storm was calced to be 8-A as well?

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm actually talking about what you said about Luffy's regular punches being Town level after dividing the Raigo's feat by 18 which would be the same as stacking the four DS to make the DLS.

18 Town Level attacks doesn't make a Large Town Level attack.

 

[Stefano4444]

Stefano, did you say that his Gum-Gum Storm was calced to be 8-A as well?

If i'm remember correctly yes, Gum-Gum Storm was calced to be 8-A since he did destroy a portion of the city while defeating Crocodile.