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One Piece God Tiers and Top Tiers Revision

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Marco's best feat is literally just mid, and i think the 3 Admirals also have feats of being decapitated, but it's better to not start to talk about it here.
 
I definitely don't think Doffy in any way scales to the OG Admirals. While they're not on the level of Yonko quite, they are still immensely powerful and more than a threat for one of them when working together, or Hell, even on their lonesome sometime. Doffy meanwhile is utterly terrified at the prospect of facing Kaido. And let's not forget here that Boundman wrecked him, whereas Kaido knocked out a stronger version of that while drunk off his ass and not even trying, so it's definitely not just a character conviction either.

And furthermore, are we really going to act like he had any chance against Kuzan? He had the perfect killshot on Smoker and still got frozen without even trying. While I do think Kuzan would've had to put in a lot more effort than that to kill him, the sheer fact that the titanium balled arrogant bird bastard retreated right then and there should be plenty evidence as to why he definitely isn't gonna match up with an Admiral any time soon.
 
Ped2018 said:
in what you disagree?
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Well @Damage3245 proposal is three tiered.

1) He thinks 6-B is an outlier because it is too big.

2) He thinks the Great Pirates aren't that much stronger

3) Jumping a tier only because a huge difference is shown is okay by forum standards.

Now to pick at these 1 by 1.

1) He would have a point provided as @Antvasima said on the other forum they weren't the Gods of the verse. Meaning outliers are acceptable provided it is understood these characters are supposed to be tiers above the rest and no one else scales. This ties into point #2

2) Damage argues that there isn't a difference but I'm waiting for him to support his claim. At the moment there is nothing in the OP with regards to that. I could point out why the opposite is the case, but since Damage is proposing the adjustments I believe a sound argument should be made by him first.

3) @Antvasima & @Damage3245 should know more about this than I do. It is just in my own experience that no matter how much stronger a character is (In this case Big Mom) we never apply a rating higher than what is calculated for someone else.

Example: I remember when Yamamoto and Soifon (Bleach characters) shared the mountain 7-A rating, despite Yamamoto being faaaarrrr above his subordinate.

Again it is possible this has changed or maybe the situation before was mishandled. I'm speaking of my own experience with jumping tiers and whether it is practice to do so.
 
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6-B Environmental Destruction makes no sense given the nature of Whitebeard's fruit, Environmental Destruction can't be used in combat and Whitebeard's feat is indeed combat oriented.





If we're gonna do anything I'd say we get rid of the feat all together. Using it and scaling it to only Whitebeard makes no sense.
 
LordGinSama said:
Environmental Destruction can't be used in combat and Whitebeard's feat is indeed combat oriented.
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Well, the tsunami feat relied on everyone simply waiting around to see the result of his quake, and then the two tsunami waves arrived after several extended conversations occurred.

Not terribly combat-applicable if you ask me, considering the length of time it requires in a verse full of above-hypersonic persons.
 
Yeah but Whitebeard can condense his quakes into his fist and attack directly with it. My main issue with the ability being labeled as "Environmental Destruction." Is that Whitebeard has shown the ability to directly manipulate and use his quakes into his physical attacks or attack directly with them.





There are arguments to be made on both sides but if we plan on axeing the 6-B it should be for being an outlier or being inconsistent.
 
Edit: Rhetorical Rant
One Piece:
  • A verse with not that many DC feats even though being part of the HST.
  • A verse where story is more important than strength
  • A verse where scaling debates is difficult as hell since it's so weird
  • A verse where you'd rather debate about it to HxH fans about if the story is better over debating about strength
Gets one crazy DC feat from the strongest man in the history of the show at peak performance fresh off life support with the most DC based ability at a point in where he's showing off his ability and he gets a statement about being able to destroy the planet and causes 2 measly Tsunami's just so it doesn't fall too behind in the HST where the other 2 have multi continental calcs on a lowball.
  • No
    • Dumbass argument
  • Outlier
    • From someone created to cause earthquakes while every other instant was AP over DC
      • People don't even use outlier correctly these days
  • Scales to nobody, not even himself
    • Slams someone in his stomach while bloodlusted with the same move and that same person can fight against someone for 10 days, the former getting blocked by someone who kicked a light dude who tanked the attack.
  • It doesn't make sense
    • I care too little
  • Inconsistent, when he had 300 bullet wounds and his face blown off he didn't do that
    • Hit a giant in his stomach and needed 3 power rangers with an ability we find out about 400 chapters later to defend with.
    • He has half his face blown off and split an island in half.
    • Tilts the entire damn ocean
      • Someone steals his power and tilts the ocean right after.
    • A statement about planet destruction that is the poster boy of the hyperbole page and he's about to be put to island level.
It's not you guys, but I'm genuinely getting tired of seeing my favorite verse's God Tiers be comparable to mid tiers of the other HST.

But hey? That's just me.
 
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It's too late for me to write up a rebuttal to that but I'll just say these arguments are extremely shallow and very reactionary. And also taking some pretty large leaps of logic with what the case is being compared to.
 
I think that we already have a calculation for that, and that the one that was finally accepted did not get much of a result.
 
Damage3245 said:
@KingTempest; well, one of my original points a long time ago when this topic came up before was that Whitebeard's effects with his Devil Fruit are very inconsistent. He's able to casually create Country level destruction with his Devil Fruit, but he requires multiple attacks before he can destroy Marineford (the fortress) and likewise Blackbeard when showing off his new Devil Fruit fails to completely destroy Marineford.

Not to mention Whitebeard failing to shatter a metal wall when he had no reason to be holding back.

I don't want to lean on this too strongly because I'm sure this will invite the AOE Fallacy, but when Whitebeard only has one showing that is 6-B, and multiple more that are nowhere even close, let alone the rest of the verse being nowhere close to him, then it's easy to think that the one initial 6-B feat may just be an outlier.



The lack of effort from Kaido makes it seem more like it doesn't scale to his actual statistics. It could just be hax-based flight instead of assuming he's applying some kind of propulsive force with his clouds.
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I dont like this reasoning.

Following this logic we should downgrade Freeza saga Freeza for almost the same reason.

Not being able to destroy Marineford is more so tied to the narrative than their actual showings.
 
Those who agree with Environmental Destruction:

In the case of Whitebeard's powers being Environmental Destruction which was agreed on in other threads, I strongly disagree.
Here are the standards of Environmental Destruction.
Environmental Destruction describes a character's capability to damage and destroy an area around themselves, but not necessarily their capacity to realistically harm their opponent. In practice, this is essentially a non-combat applicable Attack Potency; if a character is able to cause weather phenomena or natural disasters without any reasoning that can support their other statistics being at this level of destructive potency, then they should have trouble or lack the capacity to use these powers to damage characters in comparable tiers.
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Examples of Environmental Destruction​

Here are some examples of feats of environmental destruction that cannot be applied to a character's other statistics.
  • Most storms in Real Life are examples of this. Despite the massive energy associated with the formation of Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, etc., they often do minimal damage to buildings unless they are sufficiently large, and don't usually kill even humans directly, usually killing people through building collapses, flooding, and throwing them into the air.
  • Magnus Chase bringing summer to an island. Here, it's one of Magnus' powers that is causing this phenomena, to which it has little to no reasons for applying to his other forms of attack in regards to Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength.
  • Eredin drawing in a storm. While this may scale to the magical attack potency of some mages/God Tiers, this shouldn't scale to the physical stats of those in the Witcher. Environmental destruction is applied here due to the lack of reasoning to support this being applied to physical stats.,
  • Funny Valentine's D4C Love Train, and Enrico Pucci's C-Moon and Made in Heaven. Another example of there being no justification to scale the feat to AP, especially seeing as it is not the stand's physical strength that causes these feats, but rather a special ability that just covers a massive area or causes incidental things to happen such as storms.

Tell me how that feat correlates with any of these

Examples of Applicable Feats​

Here are some examples of feats that can be seen as environmental destruction, but have reasonable justification as to why it applies to their capacity to harm opponents.
  • All Might's storm creation punch. This is pretty straightforward; it is not a power or ability unrelated to AP and Dura that is causing the storm here, but rather the sheer strength of the character's punch that causes air to swirl and form into a storm.
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Tell me how that's different than Whitebeard slapping the air and his force travels to create a Tsunami.

Whitebeard made his Tsunamis using the technique Kaishin (Named in One Piece Burning Blood). Kaishin is the cracks in the air.
Saying it's not combat applicable is just blatantly ignoring every showing of Whitebeard's fruit.

I'm really just confused on why in the world we're downgrading a DC based character because he didn't destroy everything he saw during a rescue mission.
You don't need to cause a DC feat for it to be applied to AP. You just need to do the same thing on a person or thing.
Xulrev said:
Well, the tsunami feat relied on everyone simply waiting around to see the result of his quake, and then the two tsunami waves arrived after several extended conversations occurred.

Not terribly combat-applicable if you ask me, considering the length of time it requires in a verse full of above-hypersonic persons.
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That's like saying Fujitora's Dressrosa lifting doesn't count because it took a while for it all to come up, even though it all came up from one point, Him, and he can exert more effort with the same material (GRAVITY) in different attacks.
Let me not even bring up other verses.

Combat Applicable means I can use it in combat. If Whitebeard can aim that attack at you and harm you with it, which he can, it works. It's that simple.
 
I'm still mostly in favor of 6-C, possibly 6-B for Whitebeard/Blackbeard, and 6-C for the other God Tier characters.
 
Admirals will be discussed in the next CRT.

I could honestly put Marco's commanders at 6-C with proper scaling.

Edit: This thread is for God Tiers. Next thread is for High Tiers
 
Dr.Fix said:
I'm still waiting on justification.
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One inconsistent feat from Whitebeard should not be the sole justification of every God Tier character in One Piece, especially if more characters like the Admirals and the Yonkou Commanders are going to scale as well to some degree.

It would be better for Kaido and Big Mom to scale off of the feats they actually have instead of their hype as Yonkous.
 
Damage3245 said:
One inconsistent feat from Whitebeard should not be the sole justification of every God Tier character in One Piece, especially if more characters like the Admirals and the Yonkou Commanders are going to scale as well to some degree.

It would be better for Kaido and Big Mom to scale off of the feats they actually have instead of their hype as Yonkous.
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You see why we need that discussion rule now @Antvasima ???

None of the commanders, be they marines or other, scale to a healthy God tier so your point @Damage3245 is moot.
 
Also, quite frankly, I find it absolutely laughable that all of the Admirals' feats (of which there are MANY) get so easily dismissed for various contrived (imo) reasons, but Shanks casually clashing once with a casual WB is enough to fully scale him no questions asked.
I'm not even saying that Shanks isn't that strong, but considering that's quite literally his ONLY feat, while Akainu for example has had close to a full fight, yet doesn't scale, is just extremely weird to me.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I guess I'll save it for the other thread.
 
I do not mind scaling the admirals as around half as strong as the Yonkou or somesuch.
 
Whitebeard clashed with Oden. He scales.

Angered Whitebeard hurt Akainu who can fight Aokiji and they both can bruise each other, they scale.

Shanks blocked an angry Akainu punch, he scales.

Shanks fought Kaido, he scales.

Kaido clashed with Big Mom, she scales.

Garp and Roger fought Primebeard with the other Yonko and Rocks, those 2 scale.

Sengoku's current profile reasoning, he scales

Literally everyone of them scale.
 
Can I ask why it would be like that? That would propose some scaling issues, especially to those who aren't familiar with the verse. I.E, Kaido scales to Whitebeard, Kaido is 6-C but the user clicks on Whitebeard's page to see a "possibly 6-B".
 
Antvasima said:
I do not mind scaling the admirals as around half as strong as the Yonkou or somesuch.
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Really? You think Chaton, Fujitora, Z, Gion etc should all be Low 6-B with heir feats? Care to explain? IS this why you don't want to go through with the discussion rule?
 
If I may add another point, I think the Admirals being incomparable to the Yonko in terms of strength also makes no sense narratively.
By necessity, they must be at least close to the Yonko in terms of strength because they are the World Government's "official" last line of defense against the Yonko and their crews. If they were so much weaker than even a single Yonko individually, then literally any Yonko crew could've just stormed Marineford and defeated the Marines LONG ago. And let's be honest, the 100k or so fodder marines won't make a difference at all.
It just makes no sense at all imo.
 
LordGinSama said:
Can I ask why it would be like that? That would propose some scaling issues, especially to those who aren't familiar with the verse. I.E, Kaido scales to Whitebeard, Kaido is 6-C but the user clicks on Whitebeard's page to see a "possibly 6-B".
Click to expand...
As part of the proposal, Kaido wouldn't be scaling directly to Whitebeard anymore but to his own feats.

Whitebeard clashed with Oden. He scales.
Click to expand...

Whitebeard didn't use his Devil Fruit there either, just saying.
 
LordGinSama said:
Also just to clarify, light based lasers shouldn't ignore durability unless stated otherwise. Natural light doesn't ignore durability, so apparently anyone with light manipulation can also ignore durability?
Click to expand...
I second this.

If it was dura negation, they would've went through Marco and he wouldn't have blocked it.
 
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