- 21,207
- 30,214
Apologies for derailing, but it's inevitable that a Whitebeard convo would come up w/out the Admirals.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece God Tiers and Top Tiers Revision
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece
- Status
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #162
@KingTempest; So you're saying Whitebeard physically is equal to the 6-B power of his Devil Fruit?
His Devil Fruit makes him no stronger?
Or should we say that Akainu's durability is actually double the result of the Tsunami calc? Since he did after all survive Whitebeard physically hitting him as well as Whitebeard's quake.
EDIT: I'll focus on a different part that doesn't have to do with the Admirals. This line:
We don't know that they fought. All we know is that Shanks stopped Kaido from interfering. That doesn't mean that Kaido scales to 6-B through Shanks.
His Devil Fruit makes him no stronger?
Or should we say that Akainu's durability is actually double the result of the Tsunami calc? Since he did after all survive Whitebeard physically hitting him as well as Whitebeard's quake.
EDIT: I'll focus on a different part that doesn't have to do with the Admirals. This line:
We don't know that they fought. All we know is that Shanks stopped Kaido from interfering. That doesn't mean that Kaido scales to 6-B through Shanks.
- 21,207
- 30,214
I doubt he's physically equal, he should be at least half as strong as it since he can fight those who scale to him with his pure strength.
Whitebeard slapped Blackbeard who took his Gura attacks.
Whitebeard swiped Akainu's Red Dog without using his devil fruit.
Whitebeard stabbed Aokiji where he needed to dodge to not get harmed.
Whitebeard matched Oden who cut Kaido.
Or actually, Roger, by this thread, scales to Whitebeard's Devil fruit. Roger has no other abilities shown, and Whitebeard clashed with the same Roger with pure Physical strength and Haki. Would that not cause relativity?
- 2,426
- 476
To be fair you started it by scaling Shanks that way for doing something. Not very reliable. Kaido should scale to the highest calc since he is the strongest in verse atm.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #165
I don't remember being the one who decided Shanks' rating. Maybe that was a mistake I did a long while ago.
As for Kaido, being strongest in the verse at the moment doesn't mean he's the strongest of all time.
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Wouldn't Roger get his scaling from clashing with Whitebeard, rather than Whitebeard scaling from clashing with Roger?
- 2,426
- 476
This is what I mean. No one mentioned comes before Kaito's time as World's strongest.
- 165,333
- 72,561
Yes.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #168
Ah, I see what you mean. Well, scratch that bit. I shouldn't have listed it because it shouldn't count as any kind of proper powerscaling.
- 165,333
- 72,561
I think that this seems to make sense, and Mihawk is a sparring partner to Shanks.
- 165,333
- 72,561
There's this as well. Good point.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #171
If we're just going by "character X fought character Y", then a few dozen more characters would end up scaling to 6-B too.
Sanji clashed with Big Mom too, should we scale him to Big Mom and make him 6-B?
Sanji clashed with Big Mom too, should we scale him to Big Mom and make him 6-B?
- 2,426
- 476
@CinCameron20 @The_Calaca have we not discussed Mihawk to death already and why he doesn't scale to Shanks yet?
@Antvasima at this point even you are derailing from @Damage3245 thread and you clearly aren't up to date.
@Antvasima at this point even you are derailing from @Damage3245 thread and you clearly aren't up to date.
- 21,207
- 30,214
Roger has a bunch of statements of being comparable to Whitebeard.
Fought him to a standstill by someone who travelled around with Roger and knows his full power.
Roger and Garp fought Whitebeard, Rocks (his captain), Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki, and more with only the two of them.
Roger defeated Shiki who fought Garp.
I doubt Roger's physical wouldn't scale to the full power of Whitebeard, which means Whitebeard's physical should be similar in potency to his fruit
- 10,219
- 8,498
The clashed was hit with Luffy at his side, if I'm not mistaken
- 21,207
- 30,214
These are the God tiers of the verse. Every time it's stated that they fight, literally the entire world goes on hold.
Sanji didn't even clash with her, he just kicked her and ran away. There's like 4 scaling chains I can think of off the top of my head that could prove that Big Mom slaps.
- 7,804
- 2,418
Yes, it is an outlier no matter what, since Luffy was in G3 iirc.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #178
It's just my biggest issue with this is that this calc, which is by far the strongest attack from the strongest character in the verse at the time, isn't being treated like it is the pinnacle of the verse. Rather, it is the minimum standard that every character remotely comparable to Whitebeard is being scaled to.
It being multiple tiers above everything else in the verse, including being multiple tiers above every other feat from these other God Tiers only exacerbates the issue. Anyone see where I'm coming from with this?
It being multiple tiers above everything else in the verse, including being multiple tiers above every other feat from these other God Tiers only exacerbates the issue. Anyone see where I'm coming from with this?
- 10,219
- 8,498
If there are a lot of characters that are presented in confrontation with character X and these characters are immeasurably stronger than the rest of the characters the verse, but, still below character X, I believe a "Likely 6-B" would be good.
- 21,207
- 30,214
We all understand where you're coming from, but it comes with the flaws of scaling One Piece.
Fujitora is a High-Tier who casually does 6-C meteors (even though it doesn't scale to his regular AP, but it's fine).
Kaido just pulled off a casual 6-C feat while heavily injured (I know the calc has some ehhs, but my point makes sense).
Doflamingo is a Mid-High tier who's Birdcage chopped up 6-C meteors.
Every other feat we see that's calcable is a casual feat that's strictly meant for AP instead of DC. That's why some feats can be calced as 7-B when in all reality they're 6-C off of scaling.
The high tiers we see are Garp (who has yet to show a DC feat), Sengoku (same as Garp), Roger (same as before), and so on.
In the Words of Oda, he says he's a Paramecia that's as powerful as the Logia types.
As powerful means relativity, and the strongest Logias are the admirals.
I know we're not supposed to talk about the Admirals in this thread, but let's be honest. Even the creator of the manga says his fruit is on par with theirs, and the old OG admirals should be at least on par with them (since Garp was about to body Akainu).
The fandom says
Both translations say "he", which means Whitebeard, not the fruit. So they're referring to the people, not the power. They're flat out confirming that they all scale.
I understand your viewpoint, but there's so much confirmation that others should scale that it's unwise to say otherwise.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #182
This might be me thinking the wrong way about this, but the wording of Oda's SBS statement there is interesting.
"In other words he can cause tremors or shaking that start these earthquakes."
What if the reason why the tsunami-causing earthquaking is so powerful compared to Whitebeard's other feats (aside from AOE argument), is that because his usual feats are done through the tremors he himself creates and nothing more, whereas the tsunami was caused by an earthquake that Whitebeard only helped start in the seafloor?
In other words Whitebeard was the catalyst for the tsunami-causing earthquake, but his usual AP is not equal to that entire earthquake. Which is why most of the other times when he uses his Devil Fruit during the war, there isn't a massive new tsunami created each time?
"In other words he can cause tremors or shaking that start these earthquakes."
What if the reason why the tsunami-causing earthquaking is so powerful compared to Whitebeard's other feats (aside from AOE argument), is that because his usual feats are done through the tremors he himself creates and nothing more, whereas the tsunami was caused by an earthquake that Whitebeard only helped start in the seafloor?
In other words Whitebeard was the catalyst for the tsunami-causing earthquake, but his usual AP is not equal to that entire earthquake. Which is why most of the other times when he uses his Devil Fruit during the war, there isn't a massive new tsunami created each time?
- 21,207
- 30,214
I doubt it.
Whitebeard's attacks have been shown to travel in the direction that Whitebeard attacks.
For him to hit sideways to cause a vibration downwards, it wouldn't make sense.
The wave is shown to be formed in the direction of the technique. Plus, it happened almost instantly.
Not including the fact that Doflamingo refers to it as his power. So regardless, it would work for him.
Also, Mihawk saw two things, the Tsunamis and his quake to Aokiji. The latter really isn't impressive at all, as literally almost every high tier did something to Aokiji. Mihawk sees a huge ass Tsunami and says that Whitebeard doesn't seem that much stronger than him.
Whitebeard's attacks have been shown to travel in the direction that Whitebeard attacks.
For him to hit sideways to cause a vibration downwards, it wouldn't make sense.
The wave is shown to be formed in the direction of the technique. Plus, it happened almost instantly.
Not including the fact that Doflamingo refers to it as his power. So regardless, it would work for him.
Also, Mihawk saw two things, the Tsunamis and his quake to Aokiji. The latter really isn't impressive at all, as literally almost every high tier did something to Aokiji. Mihawk sees a huge ass Tsunami and says that Whitebeard doesn't seem that much stronger than him.
Another translation says
Yeah nah, they scale.
- 30,057
- 25,303
- Thread starter
- #184
But isn't the basis for the calc in the first place? That he caused an earthquake in the seafloor which is how a tsunami was formed?
Elsewise how would a quake that happens at the top of sea-level cause all of that water to rise up into the air?
That's not what the official translation says.
- 21,207
- 30,214
That's a good point.
Just checked that Sengoku talked about a seaquake, so it's valid.
I'm not an expert on the science behind earthquakes, but don't you need a similar force to cause an earthquake? You can't just throw any vibration downwards to cause an earthquake, or else anybody who plays music and aims a speaker downwards could just cause a magnitude 2 earthquake.
I'm not gonna pull the "Viz is weird" card since that's what everybody uses, but I used the other translations to show that strength was a factor in the statement.
- 2,426
- 476
I already said as much yesterday and many times in the past. The only ones who scale are the Great Pirates and Prime Garp. It is only the denial of Whiteboard's weakening that keeps coming up and exaggerating the issue. So for the upteenth time and as @The_Calaca has said before me, we need a discussion rule.
- 15,345
- 15,039
Personally I'm fine with "At least 6-C, possibly 6-B"
But I'd be lying if it wasn't because I don't want to completely get rid of the 6-B calc
But I'd be lying if it wasn't because I don't want to completely get rid of the 6-B calc
- 16,938
- 12,002
I still think having the Admirals being 1/3rd of Yonko works, while they're weaker they shouldn't be enitre orders of magnitudes weaker.
- 15,345
- 15,039
I also do kinda agree with Gin, but I forget the justification behind the 1/3, wasn't the idea that it took the 3 Admirals to stop Whitebeard's Quake, but there where issues, like we didn't count it since it was a Haki Barrier or something?
- 10,901
- 14,212
And also withstood two bloodlusted attacks from WB while off-guard as I outlined earlier.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,604
Bit late, and in not sure exactly what was going on before but Whirebeard was also called the "strongest pirate" similar to how Kaido is now, don't know if that's relevant but I believe it was being mentioned.
Regarding Mihawk and what he says about the tsunami, the official English translation somewhere prior to punk hazzard although official is poorly translated which is why the change in translators was made. What Mihawk says in that scene I believe the translation KingTempest provided was accurate.
But regarding him referring too the actual Tsunami feat may be incorrect sinve according to his Vivre Card he's able to tell how strong a person is just from looking at them.
Regarding Mihawk and what he says about the tsunami, the official English translation somewhere prior to punk hazzard although official is poorly translated which is why the change in translators was made. What Mihawk says in that scene I believe the translation KingTempest provided was accurate.
But regarding him referring too the actual Tsunami feat may be incorrect sinve according to his Vivre Card he's able to tell how strong a person is just from looking at them.
Last edited:
- 5,107
- 1,786
Mihawk has the issue of last dueling against Shanks LONG before the latter became a Yonko. People need to get it through their heads the following points: a) Mihawk implies he stopped fighting Shanks after the latter lost his arm, b) Shanks lost his arm over half a decade before becoming a Yonko, and c) We have 0 information on Mihawk's background and why he is regarded as the WSS in the first place.
Not to mention Oden shouldn't scale to WB or Roger when he "clashed" with an even younger Whitebeard than what clashed with Roger, and Roger slapped him aside quite casually. Oden even mentions how WB's power (after joining his crew) is beyond anything he had ever expected of the world before.
@UchihaSlayer96 - I hate to say it, but just like how WB survived against Dura-negating attacks, Akainu's endurance can be thanked for that since the 1st took him from 100% to being a bloody mess, and the 2nd dropped him temporarily.
Also, I'm not particularly interested in this scaling argument until the whole Doflamingo->Meteorite discussion comes to light since, you know, Doflamingo's literally the pillar for all high/top tier scaling. I fail to see how @Damage3245 regards this as an unrelated topic despite the topic of this thread literally being "God and Top tiers revision" and there's a feat right there that would put Doflamingo, and literally everyone who scales comparable/above him at 6-C or 6-C+.
But to put it simply, since the threads of the cage are NOT isolated (Due to all of them meeting at one point), they are all taking the reverberations of the meteorite's impact directly, and this means each thread (at least directly hit by the meteorite), is absorbing a tremendous amount of the energy--especially since the meteorite stopped, slid through (via being cut), and didn't have a massive impact with the ground. All of the energy was expended through the cage, which took 0 damage.
Last edited:
- 2,426
- 476
Between kaido's 6-C+, his and Linlin's High 6-C, and Maybe Doflamingo's 6-C, It seems we should probably set aside the God Tiers (Whitebeard, Shanks, Big Mom, Kaito, Prime Garp, Roger, Shiki) until at least the top tiers are upgraded.
At which point we should have have a more accurate reading than just somewhere between 4.3 gigaton and 9 Teratons.
At which point we should have have a more accurate reading than just somewhere between 4.3 gigaton and 9 Teratons.
- 21,207
- 30,214
That's a good idea.
Edit: I say we should scale the High/Top tiers before we can finish this
Edit: I say we should scale the High/Top tiers before we can finish this
- 16,938
- 12,002
Nobody wants to cycle through 5+ pages.
- 21,207
- 30,214
Wait for the OP, I doubt Damage would appreciate his thread getting flipped around to a topic we were trying to avoid while he's not here
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
