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One Piece God Tiers and Top Tiers Revision

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Am I just misrembering something? Because I can't remember them stating they could destroy Marineford island with a single earthquake.
 
Crabwhale said:
On the matter of Blackbeard not destroying the island in one fell swoop being an anti-feat, just want to point out that the longer a user has a fruit the more powerful it becomes, because they learn how to use it to it's fullest potential. Blackbeard no matter how strong he is isn't gonna compare right away to a dude who's been holding for like, what, 40 years at the very least by now?
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I thought that it wasn't that the strength of the Devil Fruit would get more powerful over time, but that the user will be able to learn new things to do with it and be creative with the power.
 
Damage3245 said:
I thought that it wasn't that the strength of the Devil Fruit would get more powerful over time, but that the user will be able to learn new things to do with it and be creative with the power.
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Yes, that's what "learning to use the fruit to it's fullest potential" was meant to be. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Eminiteable said:
Am I just misrembering something? Because I can't remember them stating they could destroy Marineford island with a single earthquake.
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I just remember it being mentioned somewhere along the thread as a reason against 6-B. I'm neutral on it personally, just would like to point that out.
 
I don't think the strength of the DF itself increases, but the user becoming more proficient in using it sometimes leads to them being able to bring out more of the DF's power.
 
Crabwhale said:
On the matter of Blackbeard not destroying the island in one fell swoop being an anti-feat, just want to point out that the longer a user has a fruit the more powerful it becomes, because they learn how to use it to it's fullest potential. Blackbeard no matter how strong he is isn't gonna compare right away to a dude who's been holding for like, what, 40 years at the very least by now?
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I disagree, the Gura Gura no Mi is one of the easiest DFs to use in the series, it is simple in concept and effect. But, just like every other akuma no mi, i think it is better to say that it scales to the user, even if this one scales above. Basically, i am saying i don't agree with the thought of Teach being unable to use 100% of the fruit, but there is no reason to think his 100% is as strong as Newgate's 100%.
 
Damage3245 said:
Technically speaking I don't think this example counts because Whitebeard is directing the force of his attack upwards, towards Aokiji, and there is nothing else in the sky for him to damage.

But anyway - you've done a good breakdown of Whitebeard's showing of AP feats and Area of Effect feats, but I still don't think it makes sense to scale the rest of the God Tiers to Whitebeard's strongest showing of his Devil Fruit power (a showing that wasn't used for AP against any individual, but just to create tsunamis), given that the rest of his showings with are consistently much lower.

For characters like Kaido and Big Mom at least, it makes more sense to scale them off of their actual feats instead of relying on the hype they get as being part of the Yonkou.

Regarding Whitebeard's / Blackbeard's tier, I would be okay with them being rated as "6-C, possibly 6-B" until we get more clarification as to their exact level of strength. I don't doubt that we'll get some more genuine feats from Blackbeard in the future using Whitebeard's Devil Fruit.

These characters like the Yonkou are "God Tiers", but they're not so unreachably high above the rest of the verse that their ratings should be as high as 6-B, compared to everybody else who are multiple tiers below them. I know not everyone has the same standards on what counts as an outlier or not, but this is my view on it.
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You're not wrong.

I can agree with this
 
Damage3245 said:
Technically speaking I don't think this example counts because Whitebeard is directing the force of his attack upwards, towards Aokiji, and there is nothing else in the sky for him to damage.

But anyway - you've done a good breakdown of Whitebeard's showing of AP feats and Area of Effect feats, but I still don't think it makes sense to scale the rest of the God Tiers to Whitebeard's strongest showing of his Devil Fruit power (a showing that wasn't used for AP against any individual, but just to create tsunamis), given that the rest of his showings with are consistently much lower.

For characters like Kaido and Big Mom at least, it makes more sense to scale them off of their actual feats instead of relying on the hype they get as being part of the Yonkou.

Regarding Whitebeard's / Blackbeard's tier, I would be okay with them being rated as "6-C, possibly 6-B" until we get more clarification as to their exact level of strength. I don't doubt that we'll get some more genuine feats from Blackbeard in the future using Whitebeard's Devil Fruit.

These characters like the Yonkou are "God Tiers", but they're not so unreachably high above the rest of the verse that their ratings should be as high as 6-B, compared to everybody else who are multiple tiers below them. I know not everyone has the same standards on what counts as an outlier or not, but this is my view on it.
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Agree with this
 
As an aside did we ever decide if Kaido's lifting feat scales to his AP.
 
Damage3245 said:
To be honest, I was going to suggest holding off on including the Kaido feat in revisions until either the official release came out, or the next chapter came out to see if we'd get any more context for the feat or Kaido's abilities.

I don't want to dismiss the feat entirely, but I think we should probably hold off on it and upgrading Kaido until the current fight is resolved.
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What are the conclusions so far here?

Btw: Damage, I thought that we agreed to keep the Whitebeard feat as "6-B via environmental destruction"?

@The_Calaca @CinCameron20

What do you think?
 
So one thing ill say about the WB and BB is that I think their rating should maybe look something like “6-C physically. At least 6-C, possibly 6-B via Gura Gura no Mi” or something like that.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, it seems like the consensus is we put Whitebeard and Blackbeard as "6-C, possibly 6-B", and for the time being the rest of the God Tier characters will be baseline 6-C.
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@Antvasima; this is the conclusion so far. Though rating them as "6-C, 6-B via environmental destruction" could also work.
 
Yes but its been shown the power of the Gura Gura can be vary varied with the weaker attacks being basically equal to his physical attacks just with better AoE and then the strongest attack is obviously 6-B.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Yes but its been shown the power of the Gura Gura can be vary varied with the weaker attacks being basically equal to his physical attacks just with better AoE and then the strongest attack is obviously 6-B.
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Yeah, ok, i don't have much to say about it
 
We still have to consider the feat of Doflamingo's Bird-Cage destroying the meteorites that struck his cage, which would overall affect his own tiering as it impacts Gear 4th Luffy as well.

At least, Doflamingo's threads should scale at least partially to the 46 Gigatons in terms of Durability. This works since literally no one except for Gear 4th Luffy has EVER broken Doflamingo's threads, and even if we tried to isolate the scaling to Doflamingo's Awakening, it would still have some affect on his Durability and AP considering he was capable of taking hits and posing a threat to Gear 4th Luffy--who could break his threads.

For people scaling >> Gear 3rd Luffy (or the 7-As in general), they should keep the "At least 7-A+" tier, but the "High 7-A" should be changed to a "Possibly 6-C" Scaling from Gear 4th Luffy (Specifically Bound-Man), which scales from Doflamingo.

So Doffy/Kata/OG Admirals would all be "At least 7-A+, Possibly 6-C" Scaling far above the 7-As, and partially scaling from Bound-Man Luffy, who scales from breaking Doflamingo's Awakening and normal threads.

I believe the Scabbards should be "7-A+, Up to 6-C with Ryuo" for being at least comparable to Jack, and being capable of harming Kaido with Ryuo. And Side-note, I think it should be fine to scale the Scabbards to at least 1/4th Kaido's tier.

For Kaido, I think upscaling from Bound-Man Luffy makes sense, so 6-C+ baseline can work.

Kaido and the other Yonko (EXCEPT BLACKBEARD) should be "6-C+". But we also need a calculation for Kaido's most recent feat of lifting Onigashima, if that hasn't been done already.

To Summarize and bringing examples:

Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru will all scale equal or above Doflamingo, putting them at "At least 7-A+, likely 6-C" (Up to, but less than 46 Gigatons). Everyone who has the "High 7-A" tier will be affected to varying degrees based on their current scaling.

Whitebeard would instead be changed to "6-C+, 6-B Environmental Destruction" While the rest of the Yonko will be "6-C+" (51 Gigatons baseline)

The Scabbards will scale to Jack, But have >1/4th AP to Kaido's Durability, so "7-A+, Up to 6-C with Ryuo" (At least 12.75 Gigatons)
 
@CinCameron20; this is not really the thread to discuss the Birdcage problem tbh. I still remember that calc being removed because of issues with the surface area of the strings compared to the meteor, and as far as I'm aware those issues have not been resolved. Let's save that for another thread.
 
“Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru will all scale equal or above Doflamingo” I completely disagree with any notion of Doffy being on par with the OG Admirals, the two new ones I agree with but not the OG Trio.

Imo the OG Admirals should be “At least High 7-A, likely 6-C”
 
Damage3245 said:
@Antvasima; this is the conclusion so far. Though rating them as "6-C, 6-B via environmental destruction" could also work.
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I like the second option better in that case, but shouldn't only Whitebeard and Blackbeard have the 6-B ED rating?
 
Physical Attacks and Supernatural Powers shouldn't be separated in AP at all BTW, even if one's Physicals is far weaker than their Supernatural Powers, Physical Attacks and Supernatural Powers should really only be separated in Striking Class and Durability, as those are the only ratings that specifically require a mention of Physical Attacks
 
PsychoWarper said:
“Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru will all scale equal or above Doflamingo” I completely disagree with any notion of Doffy being on par with the OG Admirals, the two new ones I agree with but not the OG Trio.

Imo the OG Admirals should be “At least High 7-A, likely 6-C”
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The opinion of the Admirals being > Doflamingo has yet to be cemented in canon material, thus any suggestion that they should solidly be above Doflamingo is invalid.

Meanwhile, Doflamingo has admitted multiple times that Kaido would be able to kill him, so that could be used in Kaido's tiering via statement.
 
If I may interject. It seems we've settled on the OP's initial purpose for the most part, so I think it's fine to discuss scaling now.

Even if we decide to consider every single instance of the Admirals hurting Whitebeard as either durability negation or him being off-guard (or anything else in between), then I still think the Admirals should end up scaling imo.
The reason being Akainu's durability. He withstood a bloodlusted attack from WB, who at that point would definitely NOT hold back for obvious reasons. We even see characters warning that "the boss is mad". Akainu came out of that altercation with very minor injuries, and was fully capable of fighting normally later on as if nothing had happened. Keep in mind that Akainu was also off-guard here.

Yes, WB wasn't at his best (obviously), but I don't see a real reason why he'd drop tiers in strength because of his injuries. This has never been the case in OP, and characters always fight at near full capacity even with debilitating injuries. So I think a bloodlusted WB would at least be somewhat close to his normal capabilities to an extent.

Obviously, if Akainu's durability scales then all of his other stats do as well because he was locked in combat with Aokiji for 10 days straight, and they can clearly harm each other given both came out of that battle with serious injuries. So at least Aokiji and Akainu should scale fully, even if we consider Kizaru not on their level for some reason.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Yes, WB wasn't at his best (obviously), but I don't see a real reason why he'd drop tiers in strength because of his injuries. This has never been the case in OP, and characters always fight at near full capacity even with debilitating injuries.
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Shanks lost an arm and became a Yonko.
Kaido got an old wound reopened, bled all around, then bodied a bunch of swordsmen and casually did a 6-C feat.
Luffy got hammered all day then 2 shot Katakuri.
Luffy went gear 2nd and 3rd, tired as hell, then bodied Lucci.

I agree with this point 1,000,000%.
 
KingTempest said:
Shanks lost an arm and became a Yonko.
Kaido got an old wound reopened, bled all around, then bodied a bunch of swordsmen and casually did a 6-C feat.
Luffy got hammered all day then 2 shot Katakuri.
Luffy went gear 2nd and 3rd, tired as hell, then bodied Lucci.

I agree with this point 1,000,000%.
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Exactly, and to add to my earlier points, WB's attack that landed on Akainu's head and torso should also have a degree of durability negation to it due to the nature of the Gura Gura no Mi, making the attacks that he withstood even more devastating.
 
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