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The interpretation of the OP is that it can reach the other side of the world
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One Piece: Edward Can Shake Stars
- Thread starter Kachon123
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Shaking the planet can be done without causing earthquakes across it Damage, whether it does damage to people or not is dependant on how Whitebeard happens to be feeling that day
He literally did, Akainu dodged one and the shockwave went right into the floor lol
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Because she says she wouldn't be safe anywhere in the world*
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And why does that matter?
Why does "Mother Flame > WB's quakes" and "shows to have a yield much higher than WB's quakes" get countered by that?
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This constant comparaison to MF being some sort of debunk is annoyingly false.
Tsuru can be as unsafe as possible from Gura Gura and it'd be a thousand times safer than MF being used. Can we drop the MF argument as some sort of invalidation for the Gura Gura when there's not a world where matching yields is even needed for BB/WB to get their range?
You have so many damn statements of shaking the world, BB claiming TWICE he can affect "EVERYTHING", reaching the ends of the sea, shaking the world again, people across all oceans being afraid, some guy on an island that didn't receive the news despite THE ENTIRE WORLD KNOWING ABOUT THIS feeling it and seeing mountains shake, literal AUTHOR NARRATION saying it twice in the novels, Databooks repeating it, and we're still saying "Hyperbole"?
One time is an exaggeration. Fine.
But when there's so many of them, at some point hyperbole just doesn't cut it
Tsuru can be as unsafe as possible from Gura Gura and it'd be a thousand times safer than MF being used. Can we drop the MF argument as some sort of invalidation for the Gura Gura when there's not a world where matching yields is even needed for BB/WB to get their range?
You have so many damn statements of shaking the world, BB claiming TWICE he can affect "EVERYTHING", reaching the ends of the sea, shaking the world again, people across all oceans being afraid, some guy on an island that didn't receive the news despite THE ENTIRE WORLD KNOWING ABOUT THIS feeling it and seeing mountains shake, literal AUTHOR NARRATION saying it twice in the novels, Databooks repeating it, and we're still saying "Hyperbole"?
One time is an exaggeration. Fine.
But when there's so many of them, at some point hyperbole just doesn't cut it
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People across the ocean being afraid of the Paramount war isn't evidence. They're not afraid of whitebeard alone, but of the result that is to come as a result of him trying to save ace. He is a powerful political figure in the world of one piece. And we're shown this exactly because after whitebeards death, not because he lost his devil fruit, the world is drastically changed as his territory is overtaken and unrest spreads. That's why that scan of all those people worried about the war isn't good evidence, they're worried about the impact that Whitebeard has as a person not just his devil fruit.
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'If the world is still here tomorrow" apparently means that "people are gonna track me down"
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the children out playing say ( whitebeard is humming). I dont think thats talking about influence. It takes a lot more mental gymnastics to say they're scared of his influence instead of his power. At that point, its easier to just give up and accept the easier interpretation.
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If that's how you choose to read it, go ahead.
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Yeah cause
#1 Nobody thought Whitebeard was going to die
#2 Nobody was scared of the world after Whitebeard dies.
They were scared of WHITEBEARD HIMSELF
Everybody speaking prior to the war mentioned Whitebeard
The lady explicitly mentioned Whitebeard in her prayer.
You're trying to pull baseball bats out of a haystack.
Your argument doesn't have a single true point
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Nobody cares about Ace. Everybody cares about Ace's execution instigating WB into action. The 2 pages prove that WB is the problem.
"IF THE WORLD IS STILL HERE TOMORROW" really sounds like none of what you're saying.
WHITEBEARD WINNING is what they were afraid of. His loss was unexpected. Everyone was praying he doesn't show up and take action in the first place because him acting at all is a threat to their lives.
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"Heavenly father deliver us. Because when Whitebeard loses everybody's gonna take his territory and raid us"
Duedate, I'm not gonna be one of those people who say
"Did you read OP"
But I'm gonna ask this
"DID YOU READ THE OP?"
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all hail whitebeard and his star level influence
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My point was that whitebeard was a powerful figure in the world of one piece, not just a powerful person. It doesn't matter if they didn't think whitebeard was going to die. And I explicity said, "Fear of what would come as a result of him trying to save ace." because I don't disagree with people being afraid of whitebeard. I disagree with taking peoples fear of him as evidence that his devil fruit can spread its earthquakes all across the world. None of that requires his devil fruit to be able to spread earthquakes across the entire planet. All that requires is that Whitebeard is strong enough to be a problem wherever he goes, which is a very broad range of power to have that doesn't require anything close to planetary range with his devil fruit.
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And his solar system death
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That's the thing.
Whitebeard could not, would not, and have not given a damn about going anywhere and doing anything bad.
In fact if you live in the new world you're more than happy to live under his influence. Whitebeard's empire isn't a bad thing. His POWER is. He's fine when he's doing nothing, but provoking him into a fight is what has everyone worried about that specific day being the last day of their lives.
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I don't know how you can see
"Father deliver us, who are far away from where Whitebeard is about to wreak havoc"
"I'll open my store if the world is still here tomorrow"
"Get cover from his attacks! There is no place to the ends of the ocean where I can hide from this"
Him shaking other islands far as **** away
Oda himself saying "this is the guy that can shake the world"
And your first thought is
"They're scared of Whitebeard whenever he arrives"
They should be scared every damn day in that case.
But they're only scared when Whitebeard lets loose.
Come on now
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Don't patronize me KT, you're acting like its unreasonable to try and be conservative in how we interpret statements when lacking feats to corroborate them. And as long we don't have a single instance of those many quakes we see being shown to effect the entire world, like how we were shown the wide impact of Imu destroying a country, I'm going to scrutinize attempts to implement such a big upgrade in any statistic, even if its as simple as range.
You're also acting like people can't be afraid of world events even if they're far away and not able to directly impact them. In the real world, we worry about stuff all across it even when we're well out of the danger zone. Because there are consequences to conflicts that can spread across the world. He is a man of legend, that has nursery rhymes told about him. That doesn't immediately mean that his earthquakes cover the entire planet. It means that he is infamous which he can be without stellar range. Roger, Kaido, Mihawk, etc are all people which can inspire fear like that.
You're also acting like people can't be afraid of world events even if they're far away and not able to directly impact them. In the real world, we worry about stuff all across it even when we're well out of the danger zone. Because there are consequences to conflicts that can spread across the world. He is a man of legend, that has nursery rhymes told about him. That doesn't immediately mean that his earthquakes cover the entire planet. It means that he is infamous which he can be without stellar range. Roger, Kaido, Mihawk, etc are all people which can inspire fear like that.
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Being conservative is fine when there's a strong case for it, not just for the sake of being conservative. I get different interpretations and all, but you've gotta assume a lot more to arrive at this conclusion
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But consider: Like 7 statements from databooks, canon, a novel, and author all saying the gura gura has worldwide reach.
We're not arguing he has stellar range just because he's hyped up, it's because there's other statements that corroborate the fact that his 'shaking the world' with his reach (via his fruit) is literal.
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STPPOPP
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His subordinate with a lack of control sent a Tsunami to a random island over twice the diameter of earth away as the residual energy of the earthquake.
"Lacking feats".
He affects tectonic plates just by being upset.
"Lacking feats".
As a flex he sent a shockwave that affected the plates so bad that they created a Tsunami that pushed the bottom of an island upwards by lifting the water under it.
"Lacking feats".
His earthquakes affect the tectonic plates to where if we were capable of fully calculating them and not just folding to the fact that they broke the wiki's calculator, they'd produce moon level results.
"Lacking feats"
Duedate.
Say you live in America right.
Would you feel terrified to your soul if somebody in a random village in Russia got punched in the face?
Would you pray to God to protect you because Jackie Chan was about to slapbox Floyd Maywhether?
This is what you're saying they feel like right now.
Roger, Kaido, Mihawk, etc. are all people who have never done anything of that nature.
He's infamous. He's not passively terrifying. People are not scared of him fighting an army, because people more influential than Whitebeard have battled and nobody cared.
Kaido and Luffy just fought and straight nobody in the world cared.
Duedate, this might solidify that you don't know what you're talking about.
Nobody knew he destroyed the country.
Nobody knew the country was destroyed.
Nobody cared about the country was destroyed.
They felt a random earthquake throughout the whole planet that literally was stated to shake the entire planet and showed earthquakes and tsunamis throughout every ocean in existence.
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My issue with those statements is that they're hype statements. That they are hyperbole. Because when we do see Whitebeard in action, never is anything on the level of planet wide range shown.
Databooks, canon, and characters can overhype others. In fact, that's part of how all of them work. We don't just take them at their word unless they're presenting information in a way that is explicitly meant to be tell exactly how something works, like when the mechanics behind an ability is being explained. None of those statements we're being shown are like that.
And to respond to you, @CloverDragon03, my explicit issue here is that the OP isn't giving a strong case from my perspective because its only using statements which traditionally we would put under hyperbole without any feats to back it up. When we finally see whitebeard start fighting, not once are we shown anything that indicates his shockwaves are spreading across the entire world. And with the recent showings of an island getting deleted, I have even less reasons to believe the Gura Gura having that range. Because Oda goes to the trouble to show us the direct impact of Imu's power spreading all across the world and tells us directly that it occured on a worldwide scale. Something whitebeard with the Gura Gura never got.
Databooks, canon, and characters can overhype others. In fact, that's part of how all of them work. We don't just take them at their word unless they're presenting information in a way that is explicitly meant to be tell exactly how something works, like when the mechanics behind an ability is being explained. None of those statements we're being shown are like that.
And to respond to you, @CloverDragon03, my explicit issue here is that the OP isn't giving a strong case from my perspective because its only using statements which traditionally we would put under hyperbole without any feats to back it up. When we finally see whitebeard start fighting, not once are we shown anything that indicates his shockwaves are spreading across the entire world. And with the recent showings of an island getting deleted, I have even less reasons to believe the Gura Gura having that range. Because Oda goes to the trouble to show us the direct impact of Imu's power spreading all across the world and tells us directly that it occured on a worldwide scale. Something whitebeard with the Gura Gura never got.
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What does "he's blatantly holding back his power because he doesn't want to destroy much and when somebody else makes an earthquake with his power they shake something 2 earths away" mean to you?
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Maybe because Oda doesn't exactly want Whitebeard to cause such extensive damage the way he wants, say, Imu to? If this was the case, why even give such statements to begin with? And so consistently, at that
This is not a strong case to dismiss this as hyperbolic
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Please, provide scans of all of this. Because that's all the OP is lacking here. Damage literally asked for showings of such range for Whitebeard and they never got pulled up.
I'm perfectly happy to shut up and support the OP if you're able to provide these scans, which would be a lot better evidence then a bunch of statements without them.
That's why I said my problem here is the lack of feats.
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If it was once or twice I'd believe that.
This guy's got a dozen and then some statements from all forms of media surrounding himself and blackbeard after acquiring his ability that say that.
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@Duedate8898
I have an important question to ask you, what's your opinion on the "possibly" rating compromise I proposed in my previous post? I see you have contentions with those statements being "literal" because of the lack of supporting evidence behind them, which I can see where you're coming from with that. I however don't see how you can completely disregard the interpretation provided by the OP and many others.
If there's a level of consistency between multiple mediums implying Whitebeard being capable of destroying or shaking the world with his fruit, than I don't see why we should discard the interpretation entirely. The lack of feats, while important in discussing the "concrete-ness" of the rating, doesn't disbar the statements from being literal. The statements can be literal in intention but because of important, surrounding context, it isn't actualized through the manga.
Under our "possibly" rules explained by VSBW: "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly."
I believe what's going on with Whitebeard's case perfectly fits under the "possibly" clause laid out. The claim does have a basis, with the consistent statements given through multiple mediums and characters, knowledgeable and un-knowledgeable. But because of the lack of direct evidence, it can be left up to interpretation on the probability of those statements being direct or hyperbolic. The evidence of the interpretation would be "notable" as statements exist that support the interpretation, but aren't the most concrete, or as such mild, because of the aforementioned arguable interpretations.
With everything laid out above, I wholeheartedly believe a "possibly" rating is not only the most consistent interpretation, but is the interpretation that addresses most of the problems both sides have against the other.
I have an important question to ask you, what's your opinion on the "possibly" rating compromise I proposed in my previous post? I see you have contentions with those statements being "literal" because of the lack of supporting evidence behind them, which I can see where you're coming from with that. I however don't see how you can completely disregard the interpretation provided by the OP and many others.
If there's a level of consistency between multiple mediums implying Whitebeard being capable of destroying or shaking the world with his fruit, than I don't see why we should discard the interpretation entirely. The lack of feats, while important in discussing the "concrete-ness" of the rating, doesn't disbar the statements from being literal. The statements can be literal in intention but because of important, surrounding context, it isn't actualized through the manga.
Under our "possibly" rules explained by VSBW: "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly."
I believe what's going on with Whitebeard's case perfectly fits under the "possibly" clause laid out. The claim does have a basis, with the consistent statements given through multiple mediums and characters, knowledgeable and un-knowledgeable. But because of the lack of direct evidence, it can be left up to interpretation on the probability of those statements being direct or hyperbolic. The evidence of the interpretation would be "notable" as statements exist that support the interpretation, but aren't the most concrete, or as such mild, because of the aforementioned arguable interpretations.
With everything laid out above, I wholeheartedly believe a "possibly" rating is not only the most consistent interpretation, but is the interpretation that addresses most of the problems both sides have against the other.
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Genuinely, I don't believe most of the statements to be good enough even when combined to give even a possibly rating because I believe them all to be hyperbole. However, I can also admit that I see the problem here to be a difference of interpretation more than a case of actual anti-feats or whatever to disprove the OP's statements. And the possibly rating, I do believe is intended for situations like this.
So, yeah, I can agree with this as possibly.
So, yeah, I can agree with this as possibly.
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@Duedate8898
vsbattles.com
Magnitude 10.50000000...1 and Higher Earthquakes
I'm about to head to work so I can't stay and argue all day @Eseseso found a ridiculously consistent method to calculate the Total Seismic Energy of earthquakes above the magnitude of 10.5. The blog speaks for itself...
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I have to say, this seems shaky to me, but not enough that I outright disagree with it.
But, mentioning databooks, I think page 224 of Deep Blue has even more direct and supporting statements (at least from what I can see) about planetary quakes.
I'll be sure to check the magazines for anything.
This doesn't exactly show how weak the earthquake was, more like how impossibly strong the buildings and mangroves at Sabaody are due to plot.
From what I can find, though, the next non-flashback appearance of Sabaody Archipelago, and only grove #44 and the ferris wheel in grove 30 are is shown in any detail. By that time, half of Marineford and all of the destroyed buildings near the Thousand Sunny were already rebuilt.
I get that this is just a supporting point, but, even in the databooks, I can find nothing about this island. I think all we could say semi-definitively (as in ignoring authorial intent that the island is supposed to be distant, and display how insane Whitebeard's power is) is that the island is somewhere beyond the Sea Gates.
But, mentioning databooks, I think page 224 of Deep Blue has even more direct and supporting statements (at least from what I can see) about planetary quakes.
I'll be sure to check the magazines for anything.
Even if you were correct, I'd say this means nothing. By chapter 579, there's tsunami warnings telling everyone to evacuate to groves 40-50. The fact that it presumably surmounted most of Sabaody at all means this tsunami (technically a megatsunami) has to be in excess of 56 metres and cover tens of kilometres, despite the fact that Sabaody has no coastline to greatly enhance the speed and size of a tsunami.
This doesn't exactly show how weak the earthquake was, more like how impossibly strong the buildings and mangroves at Sabaody are due to plot.
From what I can find, though, the next non-flashback appearance of Sabaody Archipelago, and only grove #44 and the ferris wheel in grove 30 are is shown in any detail. By that time, half of Marineford and all of the destroyed buildings near the Thousand Sunny were already rebuilt.
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Really tied more to the ground, but atmosphere's interesting
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This is really the only one that matters in relation to all of this since its the only thing that would put range anywhere close to Stellar. But this is a feat, so how far do we have Sabaody from Marineford?
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By a planetary scale, Sabaody and Marineford are pretty close.
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Even a single pixel on the globe map is 4000km apart. They're relatively close to the grand scheme off things.
Map was tried to be used but it was declined so that's that
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The map's not suitable for pixelscaling, but it does still show that they're close to each other.
Plus we know that they're close to each other because Kizaru's ships could travel back and forth between Marineford and Sabaody extremely quickly. (And Law's submarine could make it to Marineford from Sabaody quickly too)
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