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One Piece: Edward Can Shake Stars

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SlendVeny said:
Also the range alone is really funny to have in matches
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To be combat applicable, aka put on the profile, according to our range page, it has to be the distance for which an attack can “efficiently travel”, and given more impressive quakes (mother flame quake) took 6 days, I don’t know if that’s combat applicable
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
To be combat applicable, aka put on the profile, according to our range page, it has to be the distance for which an attack can “efficiently travel”, and given more impressive quakes (mother flame quake) took 6 days, I don’t know if that’s combat applicable
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BFR time is 7 days

It'd take hours for like, whitebeard's quake to reach from one side of Earth to the other.
 
Ryuga21 said:
I think believing that Blackbeard was referring to shaking the planet is an inference. He could be referring to something like: "I'm so powerful now that I feel capable of conquering the world".
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Not really, because instantly when he got his power he started sending Tsunami's to other parts of the already ginormous grand line.
Ryuga21 said:
Btw, you're trying to scaling feats by kanji? I've never seen this before and it seems very very strange. Even why, in the chapter where the Mother Flame was used it is also said that there has never been an earthquake of the same proportions recorded before — This should refute Tsuru's point completely as well, since she would record WB's earthquakes watching his fights with Roger and Garp. She probably used hyperbole or assumption.
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Mother Flame point is weak. It had planetary range and a ridiculously high magnitude. The point was the yield, not the range.

The kanji argument is used to elaborate on phrasing. The only time a "destroy the world" statement of that caliber in One Piece is stated is for the planetary weapons
Arc7Kuroi said:
Quick question: what’s the implication or statement that this is with a single attack? I think that’s a rather important presupposition built into the claim made by the OP, and worth discussing. Especially since we have these FTL characters capable of attacking at FTL speeds.
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Respectfully, having stacked range is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.
Saying you need to stack shockwaves to get further range straight doesn't make sense.
Arc7Kuroi said:
To explain further what I mean by that, other world destroying weapons like mother flame took 6 days or sumn for the effects of the attack to hit the OP planetary ranges, a character moving at light speed could reach the sun from earth in 8 minutes. Point being that these super fast characters don’t need a massive attack to deal massive amounts of damage via smaller attacks at an insanely quick time scale.
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Cause shockwaves move slow in the grand scheme of things.
To reach the middle of the OP planet, it'd take 17 days for a shockwave to go from 1 part of the earth to the other.
A character moving at lightspeed could circle the entire one piece planet in 10 seconds.
We don't know the mechanics of the speeds of the residual shockwaves of the Mother Flame. We know the mechanics of the speeds of WB's quakes, which have actual feats of fighting people faster than sound.

Also, this is specifically range. Talking about damage is unwarranted.
Arc7Kuroi said:
The reason I ask this is because BB says that he’ll control the whole world by starting with Marineford, which to me indicates some kind of progression, as in BB goes from one place to another, destroying them all until the world is destroyed. So I guess what I’m really asking is, what’s the proof that the Gura Gura no Mi’s “world destroying power” is by virtue of a single attack spanning the entire planet as opposed to multiple attacks that cover far less range but happen in very quick succession?
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Because he wanted to destroy Marineford against the guys who were protecting Marineford?
As he was attacking Marineford he was sending Tsunamis to other islands.
It's not about power, it's about range. He has the power to destroy marineford, he just needed to get past the guys who were defending it
 
Damage3245 said:
Tsuru in this case sure seems to be speaking pretty hyperbolically since we can see the effects of the Marineford War for ourselves and they don't appear to be as far-reaching as she hypes them up to be. There are no global quakes or signs of destruction. We only get one shot of an unknown island at unknown distance away from Marineford being shown to shake a little, and even Sabaody Archipelago which is near to Marineford is threatened with a tsunami a long while after the war starts - and that tsunami evidently does very little damage since the archipelago is fine and intact after the war.

She is not talking literally about fleeing to the ends of the earth... That isn't an option when the battle is already underway and she's in the middle of it.
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Then you missed the point of Whitebeard's power.
Whitebeard can control the range and potency of his attacks.
Blackbeard can not.
The tsunami to sabaody is after Blackbeard starts sending his quakes outwards, which is why he said he didn't have control over the power yet.
Whitebeard was making quakes for hours but the only time he wanted to crack the island in half, he cracked it in half.

Tsuru speaking hyperbolically makes no sense for her to say what she said.
Damage3245 said:
He can "control the entire world" because he sees himself as the most powerful person alive. He declares it to be "his era" after he acquires Whitebeard's DF. I think it's extremely generous to think he's saying that the Gura Gura no Mi can physically manipulate the entire planet at once.
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What?

That wasn't even a counter. Him saying "with the power to make earthquakes I can control the world" being "I can be famous" is just... bad.
Damage3245 said:
We don't even know the full capabilities of the Ancient Weapons yet in truth, so I wouldn't depend on this.
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Poseidon was stated to be able to sink the whole planet.
I'm not a fan of "we don't know the full capabilities yet so ignore the whole point". We know the capability of one of them and we have a comparison to another, both having planetary ranges.
Please don't.
Damage3245 said:
It's worth noting that the after-effects of the weapon used by Imu to destroy Lulusia was described as having no parallel in recorded history - which at least indicates that the Gura Gura no Mi users aren't causing global earthquakes at any point in time. None of the quakes used in the battle of Marineford or afterwards are as powerful as that.
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So this is the new "debunk" now? After "Lightspeed Kizaru" and "Island busting Mother Flame"?
Range and Magnitude do not correlate.
You can have much smaller range and higher magnitude, just like the mother flame calc I did having 5-A yields without even going half what a planetary quake would do.
Mother Flame had an unparalleled magnitude, not unparalleled range.
Damage3245 said:
Really? Are you sure this thread has nothing to do with destructive power and that a CRT won't be proposed saying "If the Gura Gura no Mi can make an earthquake that can be felt on the opposite side of the planet to the user, then the Gura Gura no Mi must be 5-C"?
Click to expand...
Stop worrying about the future and worry about this thread alone.
Does this thread talk about AP? No.
If a new one does, worry about it there.
Stop whining about possibilities.
 
Definitely I agree with the premise that Whitebeard/Blackbeard's Range extends across the entirety of the One Piece world, which is bonkers huge.

...But I just have this sinking feeling that this'll 100% be used to upgrade their AP later, so neutral.
 
Kinda in the same boat as Damage on this one.

I struggle to see why any of the listed evidence isn't tossed under Hyperbole, especially since these statements lack corroborating feats, Blackbeard's statement mentions nothing about range and I see it as an extremely generous interpretation to try and extend it towards range because he believes he now has the power to rule the world, and currently comparing the Super Weapons to the Gura Gura no Mi has no firm basis that makes me believe similar hype wording between the two means they're comparable.

Overall, I disagree with this upgrade
 
Duedate8898 said:
I struggle to see why any of the listed evidence isn't tossed under Hyperbole, especially since these statements lack corroborating feats
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The lack of corroborating feats is indeed a significant issue that I think is being glossed over here.

Can the OP bring up a comparison between what is the furthest we've seen the Gura Gura no Mi actually reach and what the proposed distance for the new range is?
 
Duedate8898 said:
Kinda in the same boat as Damage on this one.

I struggle to see why any of the listed evidence isn't tossed under Hyperbole, especially since these statements lack corroborating feats, Blackbeard's statement mentions nothing about range and I see it as an extremely generous interpretation to try and extend it towards range because he believes he now has the power to rule the world, and currently comparing the Super Weapons to the Gura Gura no Mi has no firm basis that makes me believe similar hype wording between the two means they're comparable.

Overall, I disagree with this upgrade
Click to expand...
why do you believe this is hyperbole, outside of incredulity? We see random characters across the world ******** themselves and noticing the amount of earthquakes that occur during the marineford war.
 
We do not see characters around the world shit themselves at Whitebeard's earthquakes, if we knew that for sure, Whitebeard's range would've already been planetary and upgraded to stellar when the one piece world size got upgraded. The OP itself very pointedly doesn't show any scans of this.

So lack of actual feats on this level is part 1 of why I believer they're hyperbole.

Part 2 is that only 1 of the three main bits of supporting evidence actually has anything to do with range. Blackbeards Marineford statement is far too broad to convincely say he's talking about range while the similar wording between Gura Gura no Mi and the weapons of mass destruction has nothing to do with range. At best, that could be used as supporting evidence for similar AP
 
Duedate8898 said:
We do not see characters around the world shit themselves at Whitebeard's earthquakes, if we knew that for sure, Whitebeard's range would've already been planetary and upgraded to stellar when the one piece world size got upgraded. The OP itself very pointedly doesn't show any scans of this.

So lack of actual feats on this level is part 1 of why I believer they're hyperbole.

Part 2 is that only 1 of the three main bits of supporting evidence actually has anything to do with range. Blackbeards Marineford statement is far too broad to convincely say he's talking about range while the similar wording between Gura Gura no Mi and the weapons of mass destruction has nothing to do with range. At best, that could be used as supporting evidence for similar AP
Click to expand...
2n9ZjJ6.png


Why would these characters comment about whitebeard if they didn't get affected?

why would oda use statements from the north, westblue and the grand line if this is mere hyperbole?
 
Damage3245 said:
Tsuru in this case sure seems to be speaking pretty hyperbolically since we can see the effects of the Marineford War for ourselves and they don't appear to be as far-reaching as she hypes them up to be. There are no global quakes or signs of destruction. We only get one shot of an unknown island at unknown distance away from Marineford being shown to shake a little, and even Sabaody Archipelago which is near to Marineford is threatened with a tsunami a long while after the war starts - and that tsunami evidently does very little damage since the archipelago is fine and intact after the war.

She is not talking literally about fleeing to the ends of the earth... That isn't an option when the battle is already underway and she's in the middle of it.
Click to expand...
Three translations disagree with that.
Her worrying about WB no longer caring about his men and going all out is unrelated to WB not actually doing it. Throughout three translations she says
"Ends of the ocean"
"Edge of the sea" and "Wherever I go, it's not safe." She's SPECIFICALLY speaking about how nowhere on the planet is safe from his reaches when they're specifically telling her to hide from the earthquakes. In the context of their conversation: She's saying that hiding from his earthquakes at the ends of the ocean is still not pointless.

Damage3245 said:
He can "control the entire world" because he sees himself as the most powerful person alive. He declares it to be "his era" after he acquires Whitebeard's DF. I think it's extremely generous to think he's saying that the Gura Gura no Mi can physically manipulate the entire planet at once.
Click to expand...
Except he then goes on to IMMEDIATELY AFTER, say he can Destroy everything TWICE.
He even says he can't control it's power in the context of taking out way more than he needs to (supported by Burgess saying he might accidentally take mf out from under their feet). Despite that EXACT SAME ATTACK that sent a tidal wave to sabaody immediately, done by whitebeard, didn't have that range effect. Which PROVES WB has control over his reach.

Damage3245 said:
It's worth noting that the after-effects of the weapon used by Imu to destroy Lulusia was described as having no parallel in recorded history - which at least indicates that the Gura Gura no Mi users aren't causing global earthquakes at any point in time. None of the quakes used in the battle of Marineford or afterwards are as powerful as that.
Click to expand...
Entirely unrelated. Both have the exact same kanji of similar literal world destruction. Not society, not the structure of nations, just wiping the world.
No one said his quakes have to rival MF. MF raised the ocean levels by a meter. All WB needs to do is generate a powerful enough earthquake that tsunamis from the epicenter can threaten to drown islands. The yield and effect doesn't have to be comparable outside of causing mass destruction.
Damage3245 said:
Really? Are you sure this thread has nothing to do with destructive power and that a CRT won't be proposed saying "If the Gura Gura no Mi can make an earthquake that can be felt on the opposite side of the planet to the user, then the Gura Gura no Mi must be 5-C"?
Click to expand...
Why is that what you're worried about and jumped to? It's a CRT about range. Are you arguing against it because hypotheticals about verse upgrades worry you that much?
I'm saying it's got nothing to do with destructive power because the OP says "Please do not discuss the Attack Potency tied to him having this specific range, as that is not the purpose of this thread."
If you want to derail feel free.
I scroll up and see a few "I agree with the range but because I feel it'll affect AP, I disagree with the range." Your dishonesty is insane. At least look at this thread from this thread's perspective.
 
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@SnookB; where the hell am I being dishonest? Get off your high horse.

Nowhere have I said "I think the range is legit but I'm voting against it because it could lead to an upgrade." I'm voting against the range because I don't think there is enough support for the characters having range to that extent; certainly not a range supported by their feats.

If you feel that I'm saying otherwise then good for you, I can't control what you read into my words, but don't blatantly insult other users by calling them dishonest in CRTs.

I can accept that you have a different interpretation of the evidence and I don't call you a liar. Extend me the same courtesy please.
 
Duedate8898 said:
We do not see characters around the world shit themselves at Whitebeard's earthquakes
Click to expand...
Except we do
People in the West Blue and North blue were worried and voicing the world might not even exist in the next morning. And others in the grandline were praying for their lives. And an island that somehow didn't get the news was visibly shaking during marineford despite being nowhere near.
Duedate8898 said:
So lack of actual feats on this level is part 1 of why I believer they're hyperbole.
Click to expand...
"Lack of feats" Because the guy chooses to control his power. The second a guy with zero mastery gets his hands on it and wants to sink 1 island, a tidal wave is sent to Sabaody proving his range increases the more power he puts out/can't control.
Duedate8898 said:
Part 2 is that only 1 of the three main bits of supporting evidence actually has anything to do with range
Click to expand...
Tsuru saying the ends of the sea aren't safe
People across the 4 blues worrying they might die
Databook Deep Blue stating he can "Shake the World" with his quakes.
Click to expand...

That's three of them that have to do with range.
 
SnookB said:
You've specifically went out of your way to reply to me saying "this is about range" by saying "ARE YOU SURE THIS IS ABOUT JUST RANGE?" Don't expect me to ignore that. You're basing your judgement off future worries.
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None of the reasons I've mentioned for my disagreement have anything to do with AP. I can have my own concerns about how people could potentially use this as a basis for future revisions and still have valid disagreements with the proposal in the first place.

If I thought that Whitebeard and Blackbeard legitimately had range to this extent based on the evidence that I've seen, then I would vote in favor of it. I may not always like what gets proposed, but if I think something is right then I'll accept it and move on.
 
I guess I'll drop my opinion on this thread now.

In short, I don't agree with a full rating. I don't believe the evidence provided proves enough preponderance for Kachon's interpretation compared to Damage's interpretation as the statements themselves aren't, for the vast majority of them, without ambiguity. Both assertions presuppose particulars about these statements, like the interpretation of what "world" denotes in Whitebeard's ability to "destroy it" or the Gura Gura statements about destruction having the same Kanji sentence as the one used for Ancient Weapons. It's because of these that I don't believe we can assert a level of probability that's concrete enough to assume a concrete rating.

I do however believe there's enough evidence to assert the probability of these statements referencing the entirety of the One Piece planet being decently high, and such is applicable to our "possibly" standards.

In short, without the usage of goofy ass "intellectual words". I don't agree with a concrete rating, but I'm fine with a "possibly" rating.
 
Here's how I see it

Tsuru's statement comes from a point of someone who, as she's buddy buddy with Garp and Sengoku, knows what WB can really do with his fruit, if she says no matter how far she runs she isn't safe from WB, then that is very much so range, and range from one of the most reliable sources in OP on what Whitebeard can do.

All other statements and connections are less solid then that, but even Tsuru's statement alone would be enough to net a likely in my eyes.
 
Deceived3596 said:
I guess I'll drop my opinion on this thread now.

In short, I don't agree with a full rating. I don't believe the evidence provided proves enough preponderance for Kachon's interpretation compared to Damage's interpretation as the statements themselves aren't, for the vast majority of them, without ambiguity. Both assertions presuppose particulars about these statements, like the interpretation of what "world" denotes in Whitebeard's ability to "destroy it" or the Gura Gura statements about destruction having the same Kanji sentence as the one used for Ancient Weapons. It's because of these that I don't believe we can assert a level of probability that's concrete enough to assume a concrete rating.
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The mother flame ( which is very similar to an ancient weapon), causes worldwide earthquakes as a side effect. I think this alone gives quite a bit of context.
 
Mother Flame having no parallel is specifically for the destruction it caused, in the context of its narration.
Doesn't mean other earthquakes can't travel as far, just that the destruction of Mother Flame is greater.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
The mother flame is blatantly stated to be an unparalleled quake in recorded history. Aka mother flame quakes magnitude > gura gura quakes.
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not a reasonable conclusion to make as why would a gura gura user intentionally try to destroy the planet. I think fracturing the entire planet > 1 meter rise in sea level. also key word is recorded history.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
not a reasonable conclusion to make as why would a gura gura user intentionally try to destroy the planet. I think fracturing the entire planet > 1 meter rise in sea level. also key word is recorded history.
Click to expand...
A world fracturing quake isn't something you can hide from recorded history.

KingTempest said:
In AP, not reach
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Tmk that's not specified whatsoever, it just mentions in general

SnookB said:
Mother Flame having no parallel is specifically for the destruction it caused, in the context of its narration.
Doesn't mean other earthquakes can't travel as far, just that the destruction of Mother Flame is greater.
Click to expand...
Proof of such?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
A world fracturing quake isn't something you can hide from recorded history.
Click to expand...
I dont think you can hide an entire island from recorded history either, but the world government managed to do that.
I dont think you can hide the worlds most prosperous kingdom from history, but the wg managed to do that.
 
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