One Piece: Doriki Scaling

[Eminiteable]

Explanation:
The current scaling used for the CP9 members base values and those who scale to them causes significant scaling inconsistencies (Further Explained Here) as such the purpose of this thread is to rectify those issues with a new consistent scaling chain. Base Lucci's striking strength using his hands has consistently been shown to be above the likes of Franky who scales above Fukuro using Rokushiki (21.71 Megatons):

1. Badly damaging him with a strike to the head
2. Badly damaging him with a strike to the chest

Base Luffy's striking strength using his hands overwhelmed Blueno using Rokushiki (22.25 Megatons) and Luffy and Lucci also matched each other as equals while using their hands, however, Lucci's striking strength with his kick matched base Luffy's Bazooka attack which is accepted as being twice as strong as his regular techniques (Here) which means Lucci with his kicks is twice as strong as with his hands. In terms of value's it would mean Lucci would scale double the value of Blueno & Fukurou's Rokushiki (44.5 Megatons) and this value would still be used to downscale to the other CP9 Base ratings via Doriki as it was Lucci's kicking strength that was measured (Here)

Scaling:
Based off the explanation above the scaling for the base CP9 characters would be:

• Kalifa (630): 7 Megatons (7-B)
• Fukurou (800): 8.9 Megatons (7-B)
• Kumadori (810): 9.01 Megatons (7-B)
• Blueno (820): 9.12 Megatons (7-B)
• Jabra (2180): 24.25 Megatons (7-B)
• Kaku (2200): 24.47 Megatons (7-B)
• Rob Lucci (4000): 44.5 Megatons (7-B)

And for the Strawhat's who scale their values would be:

• Luffy: 22.25 Megatons (7-B)
  • Gear 2nd: 108.57 Megatons (7-A)
  • Gear 3rd: 217.14 Megatons (7-A)
• Zoro: 59.71 Megatons (7-B+)
  • Asura: 108.57 Megatons (7-A)
• Sanji: 59.17 Megatons (7-B+)
• Franky: 21.71 Megatons (7-B)
• Chopper: 8.9 Megatons (7-B)
  • Rumble Balls: 21.98 Megatons (7-B)
  • Monster Point: 21.98 Megatons (7-B)
• Nami: 7 Megatons (7-B)
• Usopp: 1.54 Megatons (Low 7-B)
  • Durability: 24.25 Megatons (7-B)

Blog:
Since the old blog on the verse page is outdated now after several CRT's I've made a new one to replace it:

One Piece: Doriki Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Following because why not.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm not mad at the values, the CRT is fine

I'm mad at the dumbass values we have

Like why the hell is their rokushiki that much higher when people can combat their rokushiki and their regular moves

 

[Eminiteable]

I'm not mad at the values, the CRT is fine

I'm mad at the dumbass values we have

Like why the hell is their rokushiki that much higher when people can combat their rokushiki and their regular moves

I've updated the OP & Blog with a new justification

 

[Eseseso]

Explanation:
Base Lucci with Rokushiki was able to match base Luffy's Bazooka attack which is accepted as being twice as strong as his regular techniques (Here), and as such Luffy's regular techniques would scale two times weaker than his bazooka which scales to Lucci's Rokushiki value (108.57 megatons). As both Luffy and Lucci matched each other in base, Lucci then scales in base to half his Rokushiki value which effects the other members of CP9 who downscale from this value.

Lucci & Luffy scaling to this value is supported by an earlier Luffy overwhelming Blueno who was using Rokushiki to keep up (22.25 Megatons) and base Lucci badly wounding Franky who could break through Fukurou's Tekkai and take his Shigan blows (21.71 Megatons).

Scaling:
Based off the explanation above the scaling for the base CP9 characters would be:

• Kalifa (630): 8.55 Megatons (7-B)
• Fukurou (800): 10.85 Megatons (7-B)
• Kumadori (810): 10.99 Megatons (7-B)
• Blueno (820): 11.12 Megatons (7-B)
• Jabra (2180): 29.58 Megatons (7-B)
• Kaku (2200): 29.85 Megatons (7-B)
• Rob Lucci (4000): 54.28 Megatons (7-B+)

And for the Strawhat's who scale their values would be:

• Luffy: 54.28 Megatons (7-B+)
  • Gear 2nd: 108.57 Megatons (7-A)
  • Gear 3rd: 217.14 Megatons (7-A)
• Zoro: 59.71 Megatons (7-B+)
  • Asura: 108.57 Megatons (7-A)
• Sanji: 59.17 Megatons (7-B+)
• Franky: 21.71 Megatons (7-B)
• Chopper: 10.99 Megatons (7-B)
  • Rumble Balls: 21.98 Megatons (7-B)
  • Monster Point: 21.98 Megatons (7-B)
• Nami: 8.55 Megatons (7-B)
• Usopp: 1.54 Megatons (Low 7-B)
  • Durability: 29.58 Megatons (7-B)

Blog:
Since the old blog on the verse page is outdated now after several CRT's I've made a new one to replace it:

One Piece: Doriki Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

This seems fine, but didn't Blueno w/ Rokushiki match Base Luffy until he used G2nd?

I've updated the OP & Blog with a new justification

What was the old justification?

 

[Eminiteable]

This seems fine, but didn't Blueno w/ Rokushiki match Base Luffy until he used G2nd?

Not at all, Luffy was completely overwhelming him.

 

[KingTempest]

Not at all, Luffy was completely overwhelming him.

nah he overwhelmed his physicals but he said that he matched his stats with rokushiki

 

[Eseseso]

nah he overwhelmed his physicals but he said that he matched his stats with rokushiki

That is what Pre-TS Luffy's profile says.

 

[Kachon123]

Following.

 

[Eminiteable]

he said that he matched his stats with rokushiki

I read that, I just disagree. He was overwhelming him even with Rokushiki:

1. Broke through his Tekkai and drew blood from his chest. (Here)
2. Easily Kept up with his Soru movements. (Here)
3. Dodged his tempest kick even while he was dizzy & called it nothing. (Here)
4. Was overwhelming and pushing him back even when he was striking using Tekkai. (Here)
5. Kicked away his Rankyaku. (Here)

 

[Eseseso]

I read that, I just disagree. He was overwhelming him even with Rokushiki:

1. Broke through his Tekkai and drew blood from his chest. (Here)
2. Easily Kept up with his Soru movements. (Here)
3. Dodged his tempest kick even while he was dizzy & called it nothing. (Here)

Valid

1. Was overwhelming and pushing him back even when he was striking using Tekkai. (Here)

They seemed kinda equal.

1. Kicked away his Rankyaku. (Here)

In that same scan Luffy said that he needed to get out of Base to get a quick and effective win over Bluneo, aka G2.

 

[Eminiteable]

They seemed kinda equal.

Not at all, Luffy and Lucci matching each other and both equally getting pushed back from their clash is being equals. (Here)
Compared to Blueno getting pushed back and overwhelmed. (Here again)

In that same scan Luffy said that he needed to get out of Base to get a quick and effective win over Bluneo, aka G2.

Yeah? And how is that relevant to the points I was making for Luffy overwhelming Blueno?

 

[Godernet]

I read that, I just disagree. He was overwhelming him even with Rokushiki:

1. Broke through his Tekkai and drew blood from his chest. (Here)

tbf I don't think Blueno was expecting Luffy to be that strong after they coasted him earlier. We later see Blueno "almost" withstand a G2 Jet Bazooka with a stronger Tekkai

1. Easily Kept up with his Soru movements. (Here)
2. Dodged his tempest kick even while he was dizzy & called it nothing. (Here)

He was still keeping up with Luffy's movements. It's not like there was a clear speed gap like with G2.

1. Was overwhelming and pushing him back even when he was striking using Tekkai. (Here)

It was still fairly competitive. Blueno even matches Luffy's Bullet in that same panel.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

We later see Blueno "almost" withstand a G2 Jet Bazooka with a stronger Tekkai

Pretty sure once Luffy went G2 every attack had him seeing stars and JB made him go night night off the rip.

 

[Eminiteable]

tbf I don't think Blueno was expecting Luffy to be that strong after they coasted him earlier. We later see Blueno "almost" withstand a G2 Jet Bazooka with a stronger Tekkai

He didn't almost withstand anything.

He was still keeping up with Luffy's movements. It's not like there was a clear speed gap like with G2.

Nowhere am I arguing a clear speed gap like G2, what I'm doing is making it clear that Luffy didn't struggle at all dealing with him.

It was still fairly competitive. Blueno even matches Luffy's Bullet in that same panel.

Why because we see the initial panel of them matching attacks? We directly see the outcome & more of that exchange and it's Blueno being the one pushed back. As a reminder to you and anyone else reading the thread, in an actual equal exchange that never happened between Lucci and Luffy (Here)

 

[KingTempest]

I'm pretty sure Blueno said that Luffy kept up with him and that initially in the first feats you showed, he said he was underestimating him and he needed to get serious

Then Luffy said that he couldn't beat him how he is now

 

[Eminiteable]

I'm pretty sure Blueno said that Luffy kept up with him and that initially in the first feats you showed, he said he was underestimating him and he needed to get serious

Then Luffy said that he couldn't beat him how he is now

Yeah I know what you're referring too but it was just bad translation, it's in reference to luffy deflecting Rankyaku & Luffy's comment seems more in relation to the time limit with Robin which is why he opted for a quick match with Gear 2nd:

 

[Godernet]

Pretty sure once Luffy went G2 every attack had him seeing stars and JB made him go night night off the rip.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He was still out after it.

 

[Godernet]

He was still out after it.

not saying he scales to G2 but I don't think Blueno is being given enough credit here. He definitely scales to Base Luffy with his Rokushiki if he can hold out for as long as he did against G2 Luffy's attacks. Luffy was about to try G3 from how impressed he was at Blueno's durability.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

not saying he scales to G2 but I don't think Blueno is being given enough credit here. He definitely scales to Base Luffy with his Rokushiki if he can hold out for as long as he did against G2 Luffy's attacks. Luffy was about to try G3 from how impressed he was at Blueno's durability.

I mean no shit he scales to Base Luffy but that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about him getting popped by each G2 attack.
From Luffy's perspective he saw Blueno still being able to turn his head and grin and thought " hm maybe he's still conscious I might have to whip out G3 for once " but Blueno was just doing that half consciously and fell asleep immediately after.

 

[Godernet]

I mean no shit he scales to Base Luffy but that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about him getting popped by each G2 attack.
From Luffy's perspective he saw Blueno still being able to turn his head and grin and thought " hm maybe he's still conscious I might have to whip out G3 for once " but Blueno was just doing that half consciously and fell asleep immediately after.

We both agree Monke lol

I was just talking about the argument made earlier that Base Luffy overwhelmed Blueno.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If Base Luffy was overwhelming Blueno he couldn't go ******* G2 and almost G3 for him lol.

 

[Eminiteable]

Gear 2nd stomped him & was the result of Luffy rushing to get to Robin despite the strain it would put on him.

I've already provided my argument for Luffy overwhelming Blueno, Gear 2nd and 3rd aren't counter evidence of base Luffy's feats against blueno.

This seems fine, but didn't Blueno w/ Rokushiki match Base Luffy until he used G2nd?

Regardless, even then the Luffy who fought Lucci was stronger (or more serious, whatever your interpretation) than the one who fought Blueno as he matched Lucci as a true equal, yet, base Lucci was able to badly wound Franky with a strike to the chest who scales to the Doriki level of Blueno etc. Clearly showing the likes of Lucci & Luffy who scale to him are on a higher level than them.

 

[Stefano4444]

Agree with the new Doriki Scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

Base Lucci with Rokushiki was able to match base Luffy's Bazooka attack which is accepted as being twice as strong as his regular techniques (Here), and as such Luffy's regular techniques would scale two times weaker than his bazooka which scales to Lucci's Rokushiki value (108.57 megatons). As both Luffy and Lucci matched each other in base, Lucci then scales in base to half his Rokushiki value which effects the other members of CP9 who downscale from this value.

Why should the other CP9 members downscale from Rob Lucci's stats as opposed to scaling from Kalifa's stats for example?


To put it another way, you're replacing this scaling chain:

Wyper's Bazooka ~ Luffy's Durability ~ Kalifa's base AP

With this:

Luffy's Golden Rifle = Kalifa's Rokushiki < Rob Lucci's Rokushiki ~ Luffy's Bazooka > Luffy's base AP ~ Rob Lucci's base AP > Kalifa's base AP

I'm not so sure why the second scaling chain is automatically better for rating Kalifa.

 

[Eminiteable]

Why should the other CP9 members downscale from Rob Lucci's stats as opposed to scaling from Kalifa's stats for example?


To put it another way, you're replacing this scaling chain:

Wyper's Bazooka ~ Luffy's Durability ~ Kalifa's base AP

With this:

Luffy's Golden Rifle = Kalifa's Rokushiki < Rob Lucci's Rokushiki ~ Luffy's Bazooka > Luffy's base AP ~ Rob Lucci's base AP > Kalifa's base AP

I'm not so sure why the second scaling chain is automatically better for rating Kalifa.

Two reasons, first because their are scaling inconsistencies with that scaling chain:

1. If Luffy & Lucci only scaled to 12.56 megatons then luffy using the bazooka would never have been able to match his rokushiki as his AP would only be 25.12 megatons compared to Lucci's 7-A rating.
2. If Luffy only scaled to that level he wouldn't have been able to overwhelm Blueno while he was using Rokushiki as their would have been a significant stat difference in Blueno's advantage.
3. Lucci wouldn't have been able to badly damage Franky the way that he did as those stats would have made Franky superior to base Lucci.

Second reason is the Kalifa scaling chain doesn't definitively place her at only 1.98 megatons. Not only did Luffy get stronger throughout Skypiea as listed on his profile "Over time, he got strong enough to where he could fight evenly with Enel, and he caught his trident while he tried to stab him" but he also would have grown stronger from the Foxy arc & Aokiji encounter. Also the CP9 agents while strong were shown to be holding back (Not just rokushiki) while undercover (Here)

 

[Damage3245]

If Luffy & Lucci only scaled to 12.56 megatons then luffy using the bazooka would never have been able to match his rokushiki as his AP would only be 25.12 megatons compared to Lucci's 7-A rating.

What makes you say that Lucci is using Rokushiki here when he matches Luffy's Bazooka?

 

[Eminiteable]

What makes you say that Lucci is using Rokushiki here when he matches Luffy's Bazooka?

I'm just going off what the original blog said about that feat tbh, assuming that we decide to not treat it that way I do have an alternate scaling method to bring up.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm just going off what the original blog said about that feat tbh, assuming that we decide to not treat it that way I do have an alternate scaling method to bring up.

Out of curiosity, what is the alternate method?

 

[Eminiteable]

Out of curiosity, what is the alternate method?

Sure, base Lucci's striking strength with his hands has consistently been shown to be above the likes of Franky (Who scales above Fukuro's Rokushiki):

1. Badly damaging him with a strike to the head (Here)
2. Badly damaging him with a strike to the chest (Here)

Base Luffy's striking strength with his hands overwhelmed Blueno using Rokushiki (Here) and Blueno's Rokushiki was measured using his hand's striking strength (Here)

Luffy and Lucci also matched each other as equals with their hands (Here), but if we don't treat that kick as rokushiki then it means Lucci with his kicks is twice as strong as with his hand's striking strength. In terms of value's it would mean Lucci would scale double the value of Blueno & Fukurou's Rokushiki (44.5 Megatons) and this value would still be used to downscale to the other CP9 Base ratings via Doriki as it was Lucci's kicking strength that was measured (Here)

 

[Eseseso]

Sure, base Lucci's striking strength with his hands has consistently been shown to be above the likes of Franky (Who scales above Fukuro's Rokushiki):

1. Badly damaging him with a strike to the head (Here)
2. Badly damaging him with a strike to the chest (Here)

Base Luffy's striking strength with his hands overwhelmed Blueno using Rokushiki (Here) and Blueno's Rokushiki was measured using his hand's striking strength (Here)

Luffy and Lucci also matched each other as equals with their hands (Here), but if we don't treat that kick as rokushiki then it means Lucci with his kicks is twice as strong as with his hand's striking strength. In terms of value's it would mean Lucci would scale double the value of Blueno & Fukurou's Rokushiki (44.5 Megatons) and this value would still be used to downscale to the other CP9 Base ratings via Doriki as it was Lucci's kicking strength that was measured (Here)

So hypothetically, he'd be 22 megatons with punches but 44 with kicks?

And good catch on Lucci using a kick for the Doriki measuring.

 

[Kachon123]

Emin makes sense to me. I agree with the OP.

 

[Damage3245]

Sure, base Lucci's striking strength with his hands has consistently been shown to be above the likes of Franky (Who scales above Fukuro's Rokushiki):

1. Badly damaging him with a strike to the head (Here)
2. Badly damaging him with a strike to the chest (Here)

Base Luffy's striking strength with his hands overwhelmed Blueno using Rokushiki (Here) and Blueno's Rokushiki was measured using his hand's striking strength (Here)

Luffy and Lucci also matched each other as equals with their hands (Here), but if we don't treat that kick as rokushiki then it means Lucci with his kicks is twice as strong as with his hand's striking strength. In terms of value's it would mean Lucci would scale double the value of Blueno & Fukurou's Rokushiki (44.5 Megatons) and this value would still be used to downscale to the other CP9 Base ratings via Doriki as it was Lucci's kicking strength that was measured (Here)

Okay. That might work instead.

 

[Eminiteable]

Okay. That might work instead.

I've updated the OP & Blog with the updated values using this new method.

 

[Eseseso]

I've updated the OP & Blog with the updated values using this new method.

New OP looks good to me.

At least the whole CP9 gang is gonna be together in the 7-B club again.

 

[Eminiteable]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

I think we should wrap up KT's open CRT first so we're not trying to juggle AP revisions simultaneously.

 

[Eminiteable]

I think we should wrap up KT's open CRT first so we're not trying to juggle AP revisions simultaneously.

Gonna be real, I'm not looking to make this a "well this is what all the Post-Timeskip people scale to now thread", this was meant to fix the scaling issues made from the last pre-timeskip crt.

His thread is already covering the Post-Timeskip scaling so I'd rather get this finished and if there is any relevant changes made here it can be brought up there, instead of waiting for a Post-Timeskip thread to conclude just to go over the scaling again in either this or a new thread.

 

[Nierre]

bump